Well, just be careful with that one... When I suspected my ex of having an affair with a coworker, I also thought it was mostly flirting with a slight chance of an EA. When I finally managed to get at the truth, it turned out they had been in a PA for months and months. Usually we BS's are a bit slow on the uptake, because it is so hard to believe our spouses would cheat on us, it only happens to "others" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />.

So don't let too much time pass - where there's smoke, there's fire...

AGG

Many women (not all) have a hard time being emotionally involved with one man and having sex with another. That is why I asked.

I think you may be right about it just being the beginning of an EA. If I were you, I would continue monitoring, and get busy with a great Plan A. You also need to be spending 15 hours a week with her alone, doing fun things.

Soon you will need to talk to the other man's wife, and compare notes. Also your wife will need to find another job, because boundaries have been crossed.

If she gives you the, "I love you but I'm not in love with you" speech... then remove *any* doubts you may have - it's most definitely an affair.

JinGA

zeke, did you tap your phone? You can get a recorder from Radio Shack and get a tape recording of their conversations fairly quickly.

ML is right, I bought one for my son - I still have the tapes of her and her boss, calls he didn't know were even happening. He is divorced now, as he kept wanting to believe in her and would not confront her. I even paid for his PI and he still insisted that confronting her would damage the marriage chances. Now he is divorced (no fault state)

PLEASE tape their calls and read Spying 101, follow MB - my grandchildren have lost their family - maybe if my son had been less trusting and listened and come to marriage builders he would not be alone. You do not want to be where he is.

Now he understands why I fought and still fight for my marraige. But he doesn't understand the tools. I couldn't get him here. You ARE here.

Heed the advice.

Linda

I'm planning on having a discussion with other spouse this weekend...I'm scared to death....Iknow I've asked before, but is there anyway I'm misreading this???? If i had to bet my life I would say there is something there, but can't convince myself completely that it could be real...also, is it common for it to be hot and cold between the two?

Zeke,

IMVHO you are making a HUGE mistake. You can't convince yourself and you expect to convince OMW.

I can tell you if you want advice people have given it to you. You seem to keep disregarding that.

If you go to OMW and she confronts him he will deny it. Then He and your wife will go further underground. Making it harder for you to get evidence.

Why are you not snooping or spying like every single person here has suggested you do before you try to confront.

Even with pictures of them naked on a bed they will TRY to deny it. With no evidence they will certainly deny it.

GET TO SNOOPING AND STOP ASKING THE SAME QUESTIONS.

I THINK YOUR WIFE IS SLEEPING WITH ANOTHER MAN AND SO DOES EVERYONE ELSE HERE.

Your sitch is not special or unique if you think something is going on it is.

Have you set up the tape recorder on your phone line?

will follow your advice and post back...thanks and sorry for my lack of confidence in my thinking...last questionis it possible for these things to be hot and cold, one week lots of Communication, next week back off and so on??? I'm starting to notice that a little...on to 101

Yes...

OR they can be discrete one week and not so discrete the next.... Or he can only talk at certain times because of his family life. Or she can only talk at certain times because of yours.

Just spy and figure it all out.

I have monitored email for a 3-4 months now...with almost daily communication. there has been ZERO communication for past 8 days! Any idea what could be going on...? Thanks again for vereyones support and input. it means alot!

They may have gone underground and are in contact some other way. Did you talk to his wife?

Just keep checking. But if there is no contact, your wife should be showing signs of withdrawal. Is she?

she has been a little impatient and blah, she is a very unemotional person anyways, so it's easy to tell. She is trying to be very careful with me and the sit.its been a hard hard 8 months. ...she works with him so she is there now. No i did not talk to his wife. I have been a plan A champ though for about 5 days now. I sense it is making her wonder whats up?

Well, keep up the good work. But you realize that they can't work together, right? I've never seen a case where they work together work out for the marriage. It just doesn't happen.

I know that everyone here has given me advice, and frankly, it is everything I wanted to hear and everything I did not want to believe! She is not a flirt, and the things that were emailed btween the two crossed the line, and from coming from her were unbelievable to me. The gut feelings, the friends asking whats up, her diregard for my feelings about it. I was just hoping that if i continued to express my concerns for our marriage, that she would come around. What if I'm wrong about the sit.????? I'm going to plan A my tail off, as hard as it is. I'm going to keep a watchful eye. I don't think I have the courage to lay down the NC. She would with me no doubt...I'm hoping her feelings went away, i think though it is temporary. I'm still on the ropes!

There MUST be no contact. That is what will save your marriage and bring back her feelings for you.

You can't be afraid to lay down the NC.

Hi Zeke. Your story has resonance with me, and I came in here today to check on you.

You are making the same mistakes I did. You want to believe the best. You are scared. You are hanging onto any thread of hope. You don't see any contact, and you wonder if maybe, finally, it's over. You relax, and you're happy that you didn't have to take a risk, and now the situation has resolved itself on its own.

The reality is, your wife probably suspects you have her password, and she's set up a Yahoo account, a private one, just for them. It takes five minutes.

A few weeks ago, my husband moved out. He thinks he is "in love" with OW. Even though it's all out in the open, they STILL try to sneak around and act as though they aren't together. It's an addiction, and the chemicals that are released when they hide out is part of the thrill. Your wife going further underground only makes their relationship stronger -- the two of them against the world.

Please. Get off your computer right now, head down to the electronics store and get a recorder. Stop by the hardware store and pick up some electrical tape. Attach these items under her carseat. Get your evidence, so you will be able to confront her effectively.

I know how you feel right now. You are afraid of what you might hear. You are afraid it will devastate you. But trust me: it will be much more devastating to feel the pain I am experiencing now, in the aftermath of the loss of my companion of 20 years. I am surviving, and I will make it through. It is not the end of the world. But you don't have to experience this. You *can* make it through this preliminary pain, and hopefully avoid the much worse pain of the loss of your marriage.

Maybe you're also afraid that if you confront her, she'll choose OM over you. That's a slight possibility, I won't lie to you. But while this at the beginning stages, you have a much, much greater chance of it ending, of exposure being enough to make it fizzle out. Right now, he is still married and it would take BOTH of the marriages to end for them to be together. Right now, your wife has nowhere to go. There is no time like the present.

By the time the OWH approached me, it was after he'd been kicked out of the house. WH and OW had become like spouses. When I confronted my WH, he admitted that they'd been kissing in their building -- which leads me to believe there was much more, like an alcoholic who said he only had one beer. It is as though work was his other home, and she his other wife. Losing me was not as significant to my WH by the time I had hard evidence, and asking him to leave her would be like asking a man to divorce his wife. By this time, he was telling me to my face that he was excited about pursuing a relationship with her, and hoped she might have his babies.

All of our friends have tried to talk to him; he blows them off. They say he is unrecognizable. The chemically induced thrill of having an affair has replaced all common sense and decency. "Election" was running on HBO this weekend. I have to admit that the Matthew Broderick character made me laugh out loud when he told this woman, who he'd slept with one time, that he loved her. In a voiceover, he said he couldn't get the smell of her off his body, off his fingers. They had decided to get together again that same afternoon. In the middle of his workday, he plotted and schemed -- he had 45 minutes to get a hotel room set up and then get back to his job. As he drove the hotel, he daydreamed himself as a European lothario in a convertible, exclaiming that he felt free for the first time in years. But when he stepped out his car, you saw an old, filthy shoe on his foot, a middle-aged man dashing for the dirty hotel room. He ran about it like a sweaty pervert, setting out faded flowers and cheap chocolate, in preparation to sleep with her a second time.

She treated him horribly, didn't show up, even told his wife about their dalliance. And still he fawned over her, as my WH does when the OW does awful, disrespectful things to him. He comes crawling back if she bats her eye. The filmmaker did a great job of showing his decline into depravity, his desperation, and sweaty foolishness. This is addiction, that went unchecked in my case because I didn't effectively address issues earlier on. I didn't want to believe WH was capable of this. I kept coming here, hoping that someone would make me feel better, tell me it could be anything besides what it was. They begged me like they are begging you. There is no solace -- only actions that need to be taken, by YOU.

Act now, before your wife, like my WH, no longer cares about herself, her reputation, her livelihood, or YOU for the sake of this tawdry, dirty little thing.

I talk to OWH every once in a while, just to try to gauge his mood, because I don't want him to shoot WH. He's never threatened, but I know he's angry. I tell him things to encourage him to take care of himself and move forward with his life, and it seems to help calm him. Though, like my WH, he forgives this woman's disrespectful behavior toward him, and will take her back in a heartbeat. I've warned WH to be careful. But in his fogged out, chemically based stupor, he continues on in this affair. This is a really, really bad situation.

Similarly, as your situation deteriorates, more people will be impacted besides just you and OW. Right now their relationship seems simple and questionable, but trust me that it's not. We've all seen it before, and we don't want you to go down the same path. I'm living in the aftermath, with a child who has been cast aside by her father so he can start a new family. So many people in our immediate circle are hurt and depressed. I know you feel the pressure now, but it will hurt far worse later, for you, and everyone else.

So get up, go to your car, and start the process of saving your marriage. There's nothing else anyone can say to make you feel better here. It's going to hurt for now, but it can get better. It's not fair: you didn't make the choices she did that got you here. But nevertheless, if you want to save your marriage, act NOW.

Great post, Imagination. A lot of valuable food for thought.

Dude-

Quit procrastinating. Get off your duff. Get a keylogger installed in your/her computer. Get a voice activated recorder installed her in her car, and another installed on your home phone line. Start looking at her cell phone usage. How many calls/when is she calling him? Get ahold of her phone and look at her text messages.

DO SOMETHING.

You've been sitting in the same spot for weeks now.

If you change nothing...nothing will change. This will continue.

Get your proof...get ready to expose when you've got it.

Quit letting your fear rule you.

Great post Imagination. Hope you will start a thread with it. You describe PERFECTLY the tawdriness of an affair, and how important it is to stop it early.