mvg, I love that you felt comfortable posting your smile on my thread.....but it's so seldom read that I wanted to be sure you shared it on your GQII thread so others could share in your success.


Your openess to learn and change is what is most inspiring. I am no vet, but I've often spent lots of time on posts to hurting newbies, only to have them refute everything said...or worse...just disappear. Seeing you seek info and follow through with suggestions made to you is very rewarding for me and others. We're all volunteers but often, posting helps us as much as those we post to.

How you've absorbed 2x4s and made the effort to redirect is also very inspiring. For me, it means I can make a difference, albeit a tiny one, and I'll keep hanging around if that's the case. So your response inspires me that way, too. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Keep it up...and post on any of my threads any time. BTW, if you need a break, hop on over to the Recovery Vacation OT thread ....we're talking about anything non-A related....kids, pets, unusual adventures on the 20-90 Something Friends thread. It's open to anyone wanting a 'vacation' from A stress and is very therapeutic for me, at least. Others, too.

Acey ~ 1175/100 <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> (my ocd)

It takes courage to face your fears.

I like the book because it's more like a daily affirmation calendar. I don't sit and read it like a novel, but I grab it when I'm feeling off center. It puts the focus square on my shoulders and reminds me that *I* can make a happy life.

mvg, I love that you felt comfortable posting your smile on my thread.....but it's so seldom read that I wanted to be sure you shared it on your GQII thread so others could share in your success.[/quote]

Acey thanks, I read your smile thread almost daily. But I do want to post on my own to just to keep a progressive timeline of hopefully improvement. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Your openess to learn and change is what is most inspiring. I am no vet, but I've often spent lots of time on posts to hurting newbies, only to have them refute everything said...or worse...just disappear. Seeing you seek info and follow through with suggestions made to you is very rewarding for me and others. We're all volunteers but often, posting helps us as much as those we post to.[/quote]

You may be not vet, but your responses are very meaningful to me and to others I'm sure. And I agree with sometimes posting is theraputic, and hopefully helpful BUT if nothing else to let others know we feel for them in their pain.

The 2x4's have not been the hardwoods yet, rather soft pine...and I'm thankful. YOU do make a difference to me, a huge difference so I hope you will keep hanging around.


I'll have to stop by there soon.
Ok please explan your signature........1175/100 ??????

Let me ask a question...I've really wanted to ask this but I'm a tad afraid of the 2x4's I'd get and at least I'd appear like I'm not getting it. I 'think' I'm getting it but still wondering.....Do the WH's ever truly get it? My H is making progress...slowly but progress, and I do appreciate his actions I watch for them, I'm grateful for them, but a big BUT I still need (want) his reassurance. I truly crave for him to SAY the words to me...you are pretty, you are smart, you are mine, things like that. I've asked him repeatedly over the years for this type of affection, I don't get any. He said them to the OW so I KNOW he can do it but he doesn't. It's like the things I crave the most he just won't do. I don't know how to interpet (sp?) this.

Another example, we built a solar greenhouse because I got into master gardening. I loved it, I loved the growing plants, the planting them, the thing. He seemed pleased I found a hobby that I loved. Well my greenhouse has sat for YEARS uncovered...the covering has to be replaced every 4-5 years. I've asked, mentioned, asked, etc a bazillion times for us to fix it so I can enjoy growing the plants. He won't, says he will but doesn't. It's like anything I love to do he withholds from me.

I don't know how to deal with that and it could eventually be a deal breaker for me. IF I never get the 'things' I truly feel I need I don't know how long I will put up with it. I love him but this I don't understand how to deal with. I think he's starting to love me and show it but there seems to be something I don't know what, that stops him from giving to me that much.

I KNOW I can't make him do anything, I get that. I KNOW he has to choose to do whatever he does. But is there a way to convey my desires AGAIN maybe in a different way that might open his eyes?

Ok I hope I haven't slid all the way down the mountain I feel I'm climbing.

mvg,

have you thought about hiring someone to help you cover your greenhouse? It may show WH (and reinforce to you) that you aren't under his control.

mvg,

This was recently posted on Marriedfor30years' thread on the recovery forum. Note how many years are mentioned:


It took 5 years for her to feel grateful and she feels that menopause had an affect due to estrogen/emotional issues. I find this very intriguing.

I've asked her if there has been a thread on this concept...maybe we should start one. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

Regarding your question about him 'getting it'.....I asked the same thing of my WH when we were seeing the first MC....the one H lied to for 3 D-Days & nearly $2K. In fact, I made a notebook of the numerous long emails he wrote to her, and the few short, abbreviated ones he wrote to me. MC merely said "she likes them, just write them."

WH said, "OK".

He didn't.

He still doesn't.

Before, he didn't because he was still writing them to her...just trying to be friends.

Now he doesn't because he avoids anything that reminds him of her.....long emails and computer games remind him of her so he abstains from both.

His choices, so I respect and don't expect. Period.

It still baffles me how he could say things to a stranger (an 'other woman' he never met) that I wanted to hear him tell me for years ~~~> "You complete me" from Jerry MacGuire, and "I'll buy your chairs" from Phenomenom, and other intimate quotes I tried to manipulate him into feeling/saying to me before his affair.

When I ask him.....we actually can have civil discussions without him feeling defensive about it....he cannot understand it himself. He says he was caught up in the frenzy of the excitment....adventure......unconditional acceptance and admiration and verbal affection of his 'soulmate'. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

Oh....and get this. This man loathes home videos. We have only 2 family videos of when the kids were little (filmed by others since we could not afford a video camera) and he leaves the room if/when we watch them.

HE CAME UP WITH THE IDEA to take our brand new digital video camera (we bought for pitching students) to record his activities for the day.....our house, even our bedroom, his drive to work, his classroom, his baseball center....a whole day....an entire 2 hours of tape.

Then he sent it to OW and asked her to record her life on the same tape and send it back to him. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

AND HE WATCHED IT OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN!!! (Or so he claimed he did in the emails he showed me.) He actually showed me part of hers but it was taped over his so I have no idea what his showed except what he says....our whole house....including our bedroom!!!!! AAAAArrrrgh! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

Y'know, mvg...until I started this post, I had forgotten about this violation of my privacy. Amazing. But it's OK now.

He still does not want to watch home videos, but he does.....and he'll also watch the movies I am creating, compiling clips and snippets and merging with music and narration because he wants to support me/my hobbies.

In answer to your question....for me, I just decided that I would find as many diversions as I could to help me be patient in waiting for him to 'get it'.

So I'm working on my own recovery, taking the focus off him and his choices (or lack of them) and concentrating on being the best person I can be. Hopefully, it won't take 5 years like it did for Anyname (Marilyn) but we all have our own expectations and timelines and boundaries.

In conclusion, here is a final thought:


What if you compile a list (albeit a short one LOL <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />) of the things he does that shows he loves you. Big things, little things....whatever. Re-affirm him with compliments and gratitude when he does these things. Guys love kudos, even if admiration is not considered one of their top ENs. Plus this might take the focus OFF what he is NOT doing.

Maybe this will encourage him to not only keep doing these things, but seek other ways to attract your compliments.

My last suggestion is to examine your expectations. Because I felt like "you owe me", I had lofty expectations for how my WH should repay me. And he is, but not in the way I expected and not in the timeline I established. His choice, my respect. My happiness is in my choices I can control....what he does is a bonus.

Good question, mvg...and I'm looking forward to reading other perspectives on this issue. Maybe you should re-edit your first post title while you still can (for about 60 days).

Thanks,

Ace

P.S. Saw your reply on the questions I asked on my Smiles & Trials 2 thread. Thanks...your insights are very helpful. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

*I'm posting an explanation on the 20-90 Something Thread....you'll see it when you visit, which you mentioned would be 'soon'. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> NOTE: I can't make you visit it...but I can create circumstances that might ~ or might not ~ motivate you to do so. Get it?????? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Acey

It took 5 years for her to feel grateful and she feels that menopause had an affect due to estrogen/emotional issues. I find this very intriguing.

I hope it won't take 5 years. I don't know if I have 5 years I'm willing in invest in a wait and see R. I've heard the estrogen theory, geezzz another thing to 'look forward' too! I have more than enough hormones, I can't wait to get rid of some!

It still baffles me how he could say things to a stranger (an 'other woman' he never met) that I wanted to hear him tell me for years ~~~> "You complete me" from Jerry MacGuire, and "I'll buy your chairs" from Phenomenom, and other intimate quotes I tried to manipulate him into feeling/saying to me before his affair.

Ewwww there's that UGLY word manipulate. I never considered myself manipulative, I guess I've got to revisit that. I'm not demanding I'm just desiring. Ok fantasy maybe, but I still desire it.

When I ask him.....we actually can have civil discussions without him feeling defensive about it....he cannot understand it himself. He says he was caught up in the frenzy of the excitment....adventure......unconditional acceptance and admiration and verbal affection of his 'soulmate'.

Oh yeah I've heard the same, the words didn't mean anything, it was the excitement. Well da$n maybe there'd be more excitement HERE if the words came out! I know not nice...defiantately a LB and probably a DJ too- glad I didn't say it out loud.

What if you compile a list (albeit a short one LOL ) of the things he does that shows he loves you. Big things, little things....whatever. Re-affirm him with compliments and gratitude when he does these things. Guys love kudos, even if admiration is not considered one of their top ENs. Plus this might take the focus OFF what he is NOT doing.

I do have a list. I refer to it often. I see a difference in him. I just want it all (ewwww hard to admit that here). Oh and he eats it up having me focus on meeting his EN's and even tho compliments wasn't on his list, he sure does like them. And that's fine by me, it doesn't 'cost' me anything to be complimentary or try and make him feel special, I love him, to me that's a normal action.

My last suggestion is to examine your expectations. Because I felt like "you owe me", I had lofty expectations for how my WH should repay me. And he is, but not in the way I expected and not in the timeline I established. His choice, my respect. My happiness is in my choices I can control....what he does is a bonus.

I'll have to think on the "you owe me". My first thought is no that's not what I think. I did right after dday and truthfully weeks afterwards. It irratated me beyond belief, he caused this unbelievable pain, saw my suffering, and basically did nothing! I wanted him begging for forgiveness, I wanted him pleading to give him another chance, I wanted to see the remorse in his eyes, I wanted him going above and beyond to try ANYTHING & EVERYTHING to help me. That did not happen. We tried counseling...individually with the idea of couples later. That didn't work out to well. Just not a good fit with counselor. I found MB..again I was resentful...I HAD to do something, he didn't and wasn't going to, he said he knew he should, but he didnt. He said ok sounds good, sounds logical, WE can do this. hahahaha! Same ole same ole, yes he did the ENQ after nagging (again resentful). He read mine, it appears to me he hasn't given it another thought since then. He meets his EN's. I meet his EN's so he's a pretty happy camper.

He has become more thoughtful (good thing), he gives me the ILY's, hugs & kisses (good things) and here we are. I meet his EN's to the best of my ability without getting any feed back from him. Now an interesting thing was said by him yesterday...I was telling him how much I felt I was learning about me and working on changing from co-dependent to whatever is not a co-dependent (normal?) <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> from everyone here. I asked him if he was seeing or noticing any changes in me, he said no. That was a downer. I told well darn, maybe I haven't learned as much as I think I have and I'll have to get my inner light burning brighter.

I don't know if my expecations for our M are realistic or not. Maybe it's just with so much that's gone on in the last few months (years) on top of not feeling good I'm just blahhh. I'd just be so happy for him to WANT to do things, say things that would make me happy and realize I am special to him. I KNOW I can't make him, I DON'T want to make him, I want him to want to.

Geez he is right, I don't know if there has been any true changes in me. Time to reread this thread and get a grip.

Acey thanks for your response. And you are one strong lady! Your video remembrance...broke my heart. You have a strength and a very loving heart. Is it ok if we give them a swift kick every now and then...by accident of course?

Yes I have thought about it. I might do that this year. I just need to get over being resentful of why he won't, and then resentful of again I have to do it. So for right now I'm pondering my reasonings...and trying to let go of the resentment.

Maybe I should use 'his' hunting fund to hire someone to do it!

MVG,


Resentment can be so hard to overcome. We feel we deserve "better" and resent the lot we have been left with. If we don't overcome it, it eats away at our ability to forgive, to move forward and rebuild a life worth living.

When we resent what we have been left with and the memories of being hurt we live in the past and dwell there until we can no longer see the future.


And while YOU would have your greenhouse taken care of and maybe a tiny bit of satisfaction that you have had the last laugh and have "gotten even,' then HE would have resentment and the cycle would begin again.

But you would still have resentment over what happened and now he would as well. Neither of you would be happy. You might be equally unhappy, but the result would not be satisfaction for you or for him.


Revenge would feel sweet for only a short time, but a recovered marriage could bring joy for a lifetime. Don't sacrifice the latter for the former or the likelihood of the latter will be severely hampered.

JMO.

Mark

That's exactly right Mark. That's why I'm pondering or rather wallowing. How can I get a win-win situation.

How can I 'help' WH want to do things for me? Or is this a accept/settle situation. Another example:

Bathroom door hinge has been broken for months.He did try to fix it once after it was broke for a few weeks. Didn't work, came loose again. So I just let it go. Well yesterday feeling a bit blah I decided I'll fix it myself. Enough waiting, even with him complaining about it as much as me. So I go get the drill and the other necessary tools to move the hinge up. I didn't say anything to him at all, he was posting on his hunting forum. I wasn't looking for him to help, I just wanted the door fixed.

He came in a few minutes later to see what I was doing. He got visible flustered because I was trying to fix it. Said let me do that, I told him no I could do it. I wanted it fixed and I could do it, thank you. No sarcasm, just no and thank you. Well the eyerolling and flustered breathing started, so I gave him the screwdriver and he proceeded to fix the door. All the while visible agitated. I told him again I could do it, it wasn't necessary for him to get upset, but he insisted. Viola door now fixed. I thought great! We're both happy. He's still visibly flustered.

HOW do you respond to these type of sitations?????? I'm at a lost. I had no expectations from him to fix the door yesterday. What am I suppose to do? Just wait and wait??? If I do that he never gets around to it. If I do it myself he gets flustered. I'm confused how to work with this. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Try doing it while he's not around. He may feel like you're "guilting" him into doing it by starting the task in his presence. My H would do the same thing. BTW, he did tell me a long time ago, that if I just gave him a written list of stuff to be done, he'd be more likely to do it.

Have you asked you H how he likes to be asked about chores?

Wait and wait......yup....this is what I do....until I have all the things DONE he's asked me to do.

I'm always behind on his list for me, so in the meantime, if something is dangerous, I'll just ask him to help me remove the risk.......usually it gets totally fixed...even if we have to hire someone.

In the past, I would have guilt-tripped him like you tried to do. (You didn't mean to, but ya did. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> ) No worries....just learn from it and next time...do it while he's not around like Bring suggested. Or ask him to help you do it together....I would even ask in a flirting manner...make it a silly game even.

(But that's just me <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />)

Glad to see you taking a break on the Vacation Thread, mvg.

Ace

Ok I'm having a freakin' out moment here.

WH has been hot and heavy to get cell phones. I have been getting the run around on getting questions answered before we commit to this. We even went to the store to get answers but they gave me another # to call to get answers. H is upset. I 'thought' he was upset with me because I can't get the answers and he was expecting to walk out yesterday with cell phones. I asked him if he was upset with me he says no jsut can't get the answers, but still wants the cell phones.

Ok I plan to call today to see if once and for all get the questions answered and get the da## cell phones.

I do my normal prayer routine in this morning. Asking for guidance, wisdom, acceptance..yada yada.

I get in car to go to work AND it hits me...WHY is he so adamant about the freakin cell phones???????? Why the big rush???????

That's when stupid wife realizes, what a dipshi$ she is... my gut hurts, I feel sick, I betcha he's wanting to contact her. Right now the only way is his business phone. And if that gets to many unbusiness related calls corporate is gonna raise he$$. Am I a freakin' idiot or what???????

I don't have any proof. He's smart enough to delete #'s and messages. I'm such a fool.

Now what to do? Do I get him a cell phone and let him hang himself or just put off longer?

BringItOn & Ace, thanks for your responses. I was starting to reply and thought better of it. I'm not in the thoughtful mindset I should be so I'll reply later when I can at least be thoughtful.

If they are indeed in touch through phone (and he is so irritated that he can't contact with her), you know it's MUCH more than just a little flirting.

You need to get his cell phone statements for the last couple of months to see his calling records.

If you feel something in your gut, follow it.

My FWH and I had a joint account up until two springs past. HE wanted to switch service, so he wanted to get his OWN account (this was AFTER his first A, our first false recovery). I did it, and he was off and running in his A. I had no access to his phone records. I KNEW that something was up, but didn't really question it; I just boiled over with frustration and resentment, meanwhile, he started another EA.

I'm not saying this to alarm you, but to make you aware that your gut is putting up a red flag. Question this move, and do not be afraid to do it, albeit respectfully and with tact.

You must agree with him, do not be bullied into something that makes you this uncomfortable.

Breathe......

I agree absolutely that cell phones can be problematic. Are you setting up the phones together or two separate ones. Whichever, establish the boundary that you have complete acess to the call log on line or on paper. My DH offered this to me. It removes the erased call list. We also don't do text messages, I don't know if you can get a copy of the message, I don't think so. But he should be willing to give you complete access to the call list if he is into recovery..

Fled

He wants a family plan I would have a phone and so would he, 2 separate lines just shared minutes. We don't NEED cell phones. Neither of us is 'gone' enough to make that financial committment. We do have a prepaid phone that we use when either of us is on the road so his DESIRE to have a 'real' cell phone just to have it is just that his desire.

But it's his insistance that we have to get them. Of course he's said it's so he can call me when he's at work. But he's not a chit chatter, so I'm not really buying that PLUS if it's for emergencies or I'm going to be late type thing he HAS the company phone and as long as it's not abused they have no problem with him calling home.

What really got me anxious was after praying was when the thought as to WHY he really wants it hit me. I'm not such a religious person, or wasn't till his EA, BUT (this might sound strange) God is the one who plainly told me where to look and what to look for specifically on DDay. So I try to listen very carefully now.

So his only way to contact anyone outside of the house is by his company cell phone. So I cannot get any records. I've tried checking the phone for calls & messages but I can't for the life of me figure it out. I did ask him once just to show me how because I'm cellphone challenged, which he did, but he'd delete anything now I'm sure. So no proof just gut feelings.

Again, if you cannot agree 100%, then say so, EVEN if he fumes, who gives a [censored], let him (This is a bullying tactic). You can agree to revisit this in a certain allotted time, say 6 months, and see if he will agree to that. You are anxious for a REAL reason, mvg, do not ignore it, and be honest with your FWH about it.