SL I hope you are feeling better. The flu will knock you on your butt won't it?! I don't know that I feel much better, but a little. Hopefully just resting and not doing anything considered work will help. I hope the antibiotics start kicking butt soon.

And I have to agree with you I do get GREAT advice. I count myself very fortunate.

SL, glad you got good advice too. Sometimes those 2x4's are needed on our apparently thick skulls huh?! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Hey GC! Glad you found your way over...LA's stuff is very ...I can't even come up with a word..I wanted to say thick, sturdy, nurishing, ALOT to wade through and give deep serious thought to. The only thing close I can think of is homemade bread...thick, nurishing, warm, so good you want to rush thru but really need to take your time to eat and digest it well.

Wow, mvg, what a great analogy for LA's wisdom. It really is like coming home, isn't it. Except she's leading you back to yourself...

Yes she does. Thankfully with me she started with you have to like yourself first and treat yourself as you do your family & friends. I've had a hard time with that, but I'm starting to get the hang of it and it feels good. Not selfish as I thought originally...well not totally selfish, still working on it. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I had posted this on another thread. Had a question asked and responded.

Am I getting it? Or am I still off the beaten path?

I posted
Smile: H has stepped up!Sunday I was really feeling bad, I mean BAD, not sick vomit type sick, just I knew something was really wrong. Even with that the house work has to get done right? I mean how many woman unless they are in the hospital even when sick don't get the dishes done, throw that 1 load of laundry in the washer?! Stupid us. Well my thing I had to vacuum and mop the kitchen. It was beyond nasty. Yucko! He actually vacuumed, and then while I was starting to mop came in, took the mop, said go lay down, rest, here's the remote, just rest, I'll do this! UNBELIEVABLE! Maybe my good guy is coming back..even better.
Trial: My expectations that my good guy is coming back and it won't only be when I'm really down and out, but all the time
Lifeschoice: Have you flat out told him this? Since my A and through our rebuilding one of the most important things my DH and I have learned is to communicate EXACTLY what we want and not require the other to mind read. It's amazing how well it works.

My response to LC, I have NOT told him this directly yet. We have talked about not being able to read each other's mind I have also talked about NOT to 'think' you know what the other will do for example I wouldn't have thought I'd still be here after being betrayed. As a matter of fact that was my ONE big boundary when we got married. However here I am, working on a way to overcome and rebound our M.

Now I will concede up front my thinking might be squewed (sp)...I do thank him for helping, and taking care of me. This has not been a strong point for him. I do look for and recognize his efforts and acts of love not necessarily the way I'd like, but I do now look and recognize. This has not been my strong point.

I feel like we're still in the rediscovery of what we've taken for granted for so many years. Still learning. I'm still learning how to accept his ACTIONS of love vs. his verbal statements (my desire). He GAVE those to another W when I had TOLD him EXACTLY what I wanted/needed and he still didn't do them. There were very few actions of love and even less of the verbal reassurances I crave. He knows about MB, he knows the easy way to find alot of answers are at his fingertips (ENQ's), HN/HN book, this site, he has choicen NOT to use those.So for right now I'm letting him find his own way.

IMO he's taking the long bumpy way, but I guess as long as we get to the same destination eventually whichever road he takes won't matter the results will. I pray that he'll pick up the pace realizing I do need to get to the destination, I hope it will be with him. But these are his choices to make right now.

Got a little surprise yesterday in our email...OW sent a joke....it was sent only to a 3 people including my H. Makes me wonder if she's testing the waters again.

Also makes me wonder if WH really hasn't contacted her.

MAKES ME WONDER?! Mind games going on all day with myself. Everything comes right back to the forefront of my mind. I've given myself a headache from all the 'what if's'.
Makes me doubt WH's caring motives right now...are they true or is he playing me again. I HATE THIS.

Did he send her a NC letter? How far does she live? How did you found out about this email?

Mvg,

About the joke...and this being FWH's work email...I didn't see where you told me why he couldn't change his work email address?

Did I miss it?

Same for blocking her email address either in a block list on his webmails (which comes into his Outlook) or within his Outlook?

If he has webmail (not Exchange), then he could also have his mail go to his inbox and to yours...both. Seems you need to know about contact...this wouldn't tell you of his contact with her...would tell you of hers with his...after it was blocked.

I don't know his setup at work, an IT dept or not...he could put a keylogger on his computer at work, if his employer allowed him to, which would email you reports.

Doing the idea brainstorming here...not knowing what you guys have brainstormed or not. Seems important and necessary to me, though.

You're a team against OW...every step he takes to be transparent knocks her out of your marital boundary, doesn't it?

New orbits.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

I'm of the mind that as much as technology has the ability to trap us, so it does to free us.

(As for wisdom, y'all...I read a quote that said wisdom comes from self-knowledge. It's not a talent, not a gift...and yeah, I learned it in a book.)

(((mvg))) (((Windstopped and Mopey)))

LA

NO not his work email OUR home email. I did block her now I didn't realize she had that info.

Just messes with my mind. Things are improving here, I see a light at the end of the tunnel.

Love the quote LA!

RIF, on the fishing thread you said:
At first , it was just her telling me that she was willing to try and answer my questions. As I got better at making a safe place for her, she opened up more and more. It was hard for me to finally "get it" that I was the one that was holding us back.

Your last sentence has really made me stop and think. I think I'm holding us back too by still having some questions that haven't been answered. I'm not sure without those answers at this point I'll be able to put this behind us. Even though WH is making efforts I'm still hesitant to believe his actions are sincere.

Did you find the same thing with yourself? And how did you come terms with her A's and leave it behind?

I'm having a hard time with trust. I'm having a hard time in believing my WH is sincere. I don't want to be hurt so badly again and I don't know how to do this.

Hey mvg,

One day in MC, our MC asked me this question: "RIF, how will you KNOW for sure that Mrs. RIF is telling you the truth?"

This question got me to really thinking... because I had become obsessed with wanting to know each and every detail... and I mean every little stinking, dirty, detail... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

After I thought about it for a bit, I said that there really wasn't any way for me to absolutely KNOW that Mrs. RIF was telling me the truth... Our MC asked me what Mrs. RIF's actions were showing me(this was after Mrs. RIF had started telling me that she would try and remember the answers to my questions instead of just saying 'I don't know' or 'I don't remember').

So, for me, Mrs. RIF's actions were showing me that she was not the same person that she was when she had her A's. She was trying to remember, but her ACTIONS were trustworthy... it was my fear of being hurt again that was holding us back.

I think that every BS comes to this point at sometime in the rebuilding process. It's a scary time... your instincts are so tuned to anything that even hints of a dishonest act by our FWS.

Again, it took us about 2.5 years for me to get to this point... your H is going to have to show you consistant, trustworthy actions for a long period of time before you will even begin to trust him...

Hope this answers your questions, if not, let me know and I'll give it another try! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Semper Fi,

RIF

Thanks RIF, that does help. I was wondering if my fears were normal or crazy.

I do ask myself, what can WH DO/SAY at this point I would KNOW was the truth....makes me think, but I still don't have a whole answer other than LA has taught me to watch his actions, see his love even if it's not the way I like. And I do see actions that are changing.

I hope time does in fact heal all wounds.

Mimi is leaving the forums according to her new thread, but she quoted this on my poem thread Beyond THE BEFORE.....and added a phrase that I think is very important, mvg.

Time does heal all wounds, as long as the wounds are being treated.

BIG DIFFERENCE.

MB, MC, IC, support group, posting on this forum.....all are healing treatments that will be enhanced with time.

Untreated, wounds fester and ooooooze and gunk up communication over time.

Just my 2 cents worth. Glad you're seeing results with your WH....soon to earn his "F" as in 'former'.

You're a great addition to these forums, mvg and I love seeing your posts on the fishing thread and the vacation thread, too.

Ace

Thanks Acey! I feel very fortunate to have found MB and all the wonderful folks here. I've learned and still learning so much from so many people, especially LA who has held my hand through alot of personal realizations.

I've noticed the last few days my WH will walk up to me while on this site, sorta glancing quickly of course to see what I'm doing....I wish he'd just ask. LOL oh well! He was really intrigued when I was responding to the fishing thread. Maybe he's ready to experience some of what I'm learning here. Maybe I should tell him more definatively why I'm here.

I'm trying to address my 'fears' with him. In trying I mean I'm thinking about it. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> I've been re-reading all the posts to gather my courage to have a 'sharing' moment-no expectations just sharing. (Do you like that LA???? something STUCK).

Well I've been trying to have a conversation with H all weekend...he's been very hesitant. So I've just left it alone.

I will say H has been very attentive. I am pleased with that, but also thoughts of is he trying to pull the wool over my eyes again. I want to believe his intentions are honest and true, I just can't. I am torn between feeling like an idiot for not being able to believe him, and an idiot for thinking I can.

I really wish there was a truth only button we could push.

For me, a year after D-Day #4, I am closer to the truth button, but I can't push it, I only can observe it.

I'll post about it on my Smiles and Trials thread cuz it was a factor in this trial on our vacation.

Like Mimi said, mvg, it takes time AND TREATMENT. My H is very willing (and often instigates) treatment...reading, praying, talking. He never brings up A talk....YET....but that might come with more time and treatment.

He will most likely never post on MB (like tst), but that's probably due to the fact that he does not like to write.....(his alien did, but not him).

So listen, watch and wait.....and your gut will tell you lots. I still feel like you do when I go into his voice mail, when I ask him what he's thinking and he hesitates before he answers, when he goes home after telling me he's going somewhere else and forgets to update me and many other times.

His sincere apologies when I trigger (and his vows to remember next time) keep me rebuilding trust. For me, this is how he shows he values and cares about me.

They say it will take about 2 years....now I know why.

Ace

Hey MVG,

Yep, I know the feeling well... The more transparent and open your H is, the less you will fell like an "idiot" for wanting to trust him.

You guys are still very early in the rebuilding stage, so for now, your feelings seem to be right on track. I would make one small suggestion though...

When your H is being attentive, open, honest, and trustworthy... LET HIM KNOW!!! You don't have to get all gushy about it, but give him some positive feedback.

The goal here is to reinforce the positive instead of whacking him with the negative (which is VERY easy to do as a BS).

Most men have admiration in their top 10 ENs... even though you might not 'admire' him right now, giving him some positive feedback will help him understand that he is on the right track.

Hopefully, your positive reinforcement of his honesty will encourage him to continue and open up even more with you.

Semper Fi,

RIF

Thanks Ace & RIF!

Finally last night I asked H if he had a few minutes, he got the 'deer in the headlight' look but said yes. I told him all weekend I've wanted to talk to him, no tv, no distractions and he had avoided that...he wouldn't admit it when I asked if he thought this was going to be a complaining conversation, but his body language made me think that. I told him all I wanted to talk about was how happy I have been seeing him make changes, being attentive and thoughtful! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I told him I still have some not so good days BUT I was seeing the changes in him. I asked him if there were things I could do that would show him how much I wanted our M to improve and wanting to put this behind us. He said no, I was doing everything I could. We had a little laugh when I said are you saying I'm not capable of doing more or I'm meeting your needs?! LOL

I also told him I bought the 5 love language book which helps better understand different ways people respond to love and asked him if he would read it. He rolled his eyes and I said you don't have to, just say you don't want to but he said no I'll read it. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Now we'll see if he follows through, that has been a very weak point for him. Hopefully he'll read it.

Good for you MVG!!!

Us guys are pretty simple... give us a little praise and we'll fight all sorts of dragons for you!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Semper Fi,

RIF

I hope so RIF. I need a protector, sometimes from myself! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I had to chuckle a bit at this statement, RIF.....and I thought of a gaslighting addition to your thought due to my WH's inclination to have an A when I was making huge efforts to praise him and support him when he had lost his job last year. And I was praising him and supporting him while he continued secret contact with that OW....and she with him. He fought dragons, all right. He fought honesty, integrity, transparancy....those kinds of 'dragons'. It happened during his 'withdrawal' phase, which neither of us knew about.



I know what you mean, mvg. Have you thought about reading the book WITH him....little by little.....taking turns reading and discussing in a 'safe' non-threatening manner? We have been reading nearly every evening for the past 18 months since D-Day #1. Ironically, we started with "Not Just Friends" by Shirley Glass......while WH was still trying to be friends with that OW further underground. I knew it in my gut, but tried to repress my intuition. Wish I'd known about MB principles back then. Shoulda, woulda, coulda....needs to be refocused to the future now.

I was looking for your clarification to my question, mvg and now I realize that I asked you on the Enabling thread. When you can, (if you haven't already)...maybe you could dig it out.....didn't see it on page one.

Thanks,
Ace