I don't think it's unrealistic, mvg, but I do know it will take tons of patience. It may go faster if you continue to focus on what you can change in yourself, venting your frustrations here, affirming his progress steadily and positively.

Keep it up. Don't lose sight of that nugget, but also, don't let your expectations derail you prematurely.

I'm speaking to myself, too. As I focus on trying to NOT be a controller, my DH is trying extra hard to do the things he knows are the right thing to do, not only because I've harped about them for years, but because they are more expedient (and he used to NOT do them for years just to spite me.) One example is the sitch I posted on the Enabling thread last night.

Ace

If you really place focus on yourself; care for yourself; begin to exude confidence, things change.

Confidence can be really hard to come by when things seem so shaky, so many unknowns. The one thing you CAN do is look at yourself, your insecurities. Get to know who you are, and work toward being stronger.

I just shudder when I read some of your posts because I see so many similarities. It's mind boggling!

All of this time, I've been looking for PWC to GIVE me what I need. That RENTER in me, looking for sacrifice. He's been giving me what he feels comfortable with, what he wants to; of course, not my most important EN's, but needs all the same.

I don't think I'll get my top EN's met until I am willing to put myself out there, to speak honestly, and not be afraid of what PWC will DO (or not do).

It's funny, it's not like there is some great catastrophy every day, that we must discuss. There are MOMENTS, things said in passing. I used to just let those things go, and let them pile up. I don't do that anymore. I handle it in the moment, for if I don't, more shirts heads will roll. I fear for my husband's wardrobe! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

Thanks Ace & SL. Your words of wisdom I do covet. And thanks for seeing some of my posts are just frustration and confusion.

I see after posting this MY trial right now is NOT expecting SANTA to bring my biggest desire but to revel in what I am getting and enjoying the moment.

Since I stopped taking that dang medicine I have actually woken up the last couple of mornings and felt....HAPPY. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Some medications can kill your spirit (especially pain meds).

I see after posting this MY trial right now is NOT expecting SANTA to bring my biggest desire but to revel in what I am getting and enjoying the moment.

Good call! I removed a lot of my expectations for the holidays. It just ends up ruining the good that comes out of them. I really enjoyed Thanksgiving, having my family together, it was nice. I look forward to Christmas. I have a 5 year old, so it's very mystical right now; he becomes more excited as each day passes. What a joy to watch!

I also just enjoy the season; putting up the tree, decorating, baking (those heart healthy snickerdoodles), shopping, parties. It's fun.

mvg -

Your post is exactly my problem. I want it all and I want it all now. I am overlooking the steps forward he is taking because I see it as not enough. I am hindering my own recovery with my impatience.

Which is what LA is trying to tell me. I told myself last night, after the 2x4's she gave me, that I would start taking our recovery a minute at a time. Just deal with the good and bad of that moment. I look ahead too much and miss all the scenery on the way there.

Like yours, my H is changing. He used to do things to irritate me on purpose and he has stopped. He is more affectionate and more verbal about his love for me. He IS doing what I have asked him to do. He is just doing it in his own way...not mine.

I am definitaly going to read that 5 love languages book because I think that I am missing some of the ways he shows his love to me....because we don't speak the same language. I am going to get it from the library today and read read read.

mvg,

I just wanted to stop by a minute to let you know how much i appreciate reading your thread and SIL's. They both sound EXACTLY like me and my situation and it just gives me such joy to read here how to change myself. I have been trying to do just that and it is working slowly but surely. I have noticed my H has been coming around more too just by me speaking up right then and there rather than letting it build up. Just thought i would let you know.

S_C

CG and MVG,

In your mind take a snapshot of now...

Compare it to where things were "before"...

Use it as a reference for a month from now...

And again in another month...

When we are trying to lose weight, there a re a couple of ways to go about it.

One way is to starve ourselves, exercise instead of having a real life and lose a lot of weight quickly. It seldom lasts because we burn out and find a "reason" to cheat on the diet or to take the day off from the gym.

The other way is to make changes in the way we think about ourselves. We can change how we think about food. We can commit to getting ourselves into better shape and exercise when we feel the motivation.

The first way usually leads to falling off the wagon and regaining at least some of the weight and remaining lazy, wanting a shortcut to being physically fit and looking better.

The second is more likely to lead to life long changes that will give us a better understanding of why we eat the way we do, how to short circuit our cravings and remaining in better shape over the long haul. Even if we never get down to the same weight as we could get to by starving and giving up on life, we can be BETTER than we were before and remain that way into the future.

Recovery works the same way. Slow, steady progress leads to more lasting changes than sudden all out efforts to attain a short term goal. Where we are in a year is more important than where we are in a week. It is better for both marriage partners to learn the new habits and ways of dealing with problems, conflicts and stress than to force changes in actions without understanding why the changes need to happen.

When the frustration of where we are comes along it is often because we are longing for where we were, but we need instead to focus on where we are going because that is where we need to be in the future.

An entire generation of the people of Israel, the same generation who witnessed miracles in being freed from slavery in Egypt, missed seeing the promised land because they were dwelling on what they didn't have any more instead of what they were going to get. They longed for the leaks and onions, the fish, the spices and completely missed the miracle of the manna that arrived every morning and didn't even have to be carried with them on their journey.

They missed the blessing of now and tomorrow because they couldn't give up what they had yesterday though it was not all that good because they were in fact slaves rather than free.

Better to be free to recover than remain slaves to old ways of selfishness.

[/sermon]

You both know this already, of course. Just reminding myself... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/ooo.gif" alt="" />

Mark

Thank you all. I do hope we are able to learn from each other and to enjoy the moment. We are more fortunate than some and not as fortunate as others, but we are fortunate as long as we continue to count our blessings and not let the 'small' things go unnoticed.

They missed the blessing of now and tomorrow because they couldn't give up what they had yesterday though it was not all that good because they were in fact slaves rather than free.
Mark, thank you, I have to keep reminding myself of this too.

I keep thinking of Acey's poem. We are headed into a better place I truly feel that in my heart.

GC, just watch and listen to your H...pay close attention to all he does. You WILL notice so much that is good. I keep my list of good things...and they are many. Maybe not the way I'd like them but good none-the-less and I have to remind myself of that.

Thank you all friends I can't/couldn't have done this without you all. (((With much gratefulness))).
Let's hope we can continue to hold each other up through the tough times, and smile and be joyous at the good, with hopefulness in our hearts for the wonders to be. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

We are 3+ years into recovery and we're still working through stuff (even after 30 years of marriage!). It dawned on me the other day (and I know this is going to be a big duh! to most people) but I realized that DH isn't meeting one of my biggest EN-- affirmation of my desirability as a woman (other than times when we're intimate). So how do you go about conveying that kind of need to someone? Here's what I did.

I approached DH and said, you know, I'm a married woman. There is only one source that I can go to in order to get my need for affirmation as a desirable woman. Before, when we were doing things all wrong, neither of us thought anything about getting a compliment from the opposite sex affirming our desirability. We now know that's dangerous. So you're it baby. My DH said, "I understand, but don't you see all the other things I do?" I do and I told him so. I just let him know that this was a biggie for me. I then went on my way and he went his.

Two weeks later (last night) I came home and went to the fridge. There was a post-it note to me from DH with a really sweet note (affirming me as a woman.) Then I found one on my computer, inside my pantry door, on the bathroom mirrors -- upstairs and downstairs, inside the kitchen cabinets. I was laughing. He got it.

My point is... that in recovery... sometimes the best way to get what you need is to ask straight up.

PM, WOW you are a lucky woman!!! I have asked straight to the point, very specifically...nada. That is one of the reasons I want him to read the 5 love languages book. BUT maybe your approach will work as well.

As I've said earlier, I do feel my heart thawing and IF he would/could meet my most important EN I think I could start believing in him again.

Even before his EA (which he poured all MY EN's on the OW) he didn't/wouldn't/denied me...my most important EN's again with me being VERY direct and VERY specific.

So I think that's why I'm so hesitate to 'believe' in him, even with his changes. I'm confused by this behavior, he has 'heard' my requests so many times but doesn't do them.

Before the EA he said he just wasn't an 'emotional' kinda guy...but he was with HER. He gave HER what I so much desired. This holds me back. That is my 'trial' these days, how to get thru the trial and come to some conclusion as to why he could give to another but not to me.

Should I give the direct approach another try?

I hear that. For years I heard that from my H. I never expected a whole lot of "romance" from him because he just wasn't that kind of guy. I was floored when I found love letters that he'd written to BOTH OW. Once he came home, that one thing bothered me the most. I told him this. His answer was that it wasn't him, he wasn't living in reality. But still... it was a source of major resentment for me.

We went for nearly two years with me feeling this, me telling him, him not doing anything about it, me trying to get past it.

He was "hearing" me the whole time but wasn't at a point in his own recovery where he could meet that need for me. I was "demanding" something from him (as opposed to stating what I felt and walking away with no expectation) and he couldn't deliver. I finally had accepted that it wasn't going to happen because I just wasn't as good, as sexy, as beautiful, as whatever... as they were?). My thinking was stinkin' thinkin'. "I" was making myself crazy with it.

Finally, one day after I quit asking and when I least expected it, I got my letter.

Sooooooo. In the instance where I simply told him that he wasn't meeting my EN, he listened and acted. In the instance where I "demanded", he also listened but wasn't really free to act honestly. Oh he could have written "something" but it wouldn't have been from a place of honesty.

But again, remember that most of my situation was pre-MB. I've learned SO MUCH since coming here.

Thank PM. I haven't demanded since before DDay. I do want to just state my feelings and have no expectations. That is hard BECAUSE I do want results. UGH!

I can do it though. I can state what I feel/need/etc and pray for results while realizing they might not come,now or ever. I do want him be able to act honestly. Tight spot.

More thinking needed.

Try to remember that these things are not static. Just because something is not addressed today, does not mean, after some time and intimacy building, these things (EN's being met) won't be met with enthusiasm at a later date.

Just keep to honesty. You stated what your top EN's are, now stick to your side of things, filling his EN's as you know and can, remembering to take care of yourself.

What SL said but in a much clearer and succinct way. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Thanks!

Maybe I'll just take my mind off such heavy subjects and think about snickerdoodles! LOL

A little snickerdoodle goes a long way, mvg.

Seriously, take your time finding your way. Don't try to have it all today. It's an evolution.

I either had a swift kick to my chakras or a brain realignment, but whatever it was, I am really so much more clear on this. That doesn't mean that I don't have a longing for physical affection, but I'm not going to push. I know it will happen again, as long as we keep on keepin on. I have faith now, that I never had before.

I also have faith that I can weather this all. I'm not afraid for myself. I am afraid for PWC and my son, if things don't work out, but I can handle whatever comes my way.

I look forward to watching our dynamic change. I feel so much better.

You will get there too! Hopefully, no shirts or household items will be harmed in order for you to get there, but who knows?...

SL I'm glad you have found 'whatever' it is that realigned your brain with your faith and certainity.

I truly am trying to be patient..not one of my virtues. I'm trying to let things just evolve. I AM enjoying what we have today. I have not uttered one word to H about what I'm feeling right now. Can I hope it's PMS and this 'uncertainity' shall pass with it????

It sure is hard to look into your H's eyes tho, when you 'think' they love you, and you're searching and searching their eyes and you still come away unsure. Da*n fear! This too I shall overcome!!! CAuse I'm just too darn stubborn not to! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

My FWH looks away when we make eye contact. It's like he's staring into the sun and can't bear it one second more. I look him in the eye all of the time. I, personally, think it's ridiculous to NOT work on things in an OBVIOUS way; fix the problems, face them, deal with the anger and fear together and get past it. BUT, that's ME, not my FWH.

He has his own way of doing things, and I'm no teacher. This is our situation and I'm FINALLY coming to terms with what I'm really dealing with, and not HOPING for something unreal. THAT'S how I've gotten to where I am.

When I talk about him not looking at me or touching me, those are HIS issues, NOT MINE. I plan on having a happy life with him. I am following the Harley principles as best I can, in this situation. I am also doing more for myself, not sitting around waiting for PWC to come around.

I invited him to the movies this Saturday, letting him know that my best friend offered to watch our son. He can do whatever he wishes to do with that time; I would like to spend it with him, MY CHOICE. Sunday, I have told PWC, that I am going to THE MALL to look for something snazzy for my Christmas party. He's welcome to come, HIS CHOICE.

I am living my life, day in, day out, as I would like, which, for me, includes my husband. His choice on how to live his.

^5 SL!!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Very wise advice...true for me also. I am a little miffed right now. I had a wonderful response to all that LA said on my thread and when I went to post it..my computer froze and I lost it all. I am boycotting my thread for a little bit today to teach it a lesson...lol....Just wanted you to know I read what you said and thanks.

I wasn't jumping all over you...just sounded like I hit a nerve with you.

I also wanted to let you know that I have stopped asking my H for affection for a few days now and last night he made some major love bank deposits.

My back was hurting still and he let me lay down for awhile. He ran our oldest to play practice, fed the other two, and pretty much took complete care of them. Then after they finally went to bed he was all cuddly and stuff. It was very nice. Just another proof that LA is right.

Keep at it mvg - your H will come around. Still praying for you both.