Where's my grateful heart? I think I've lost it, anyone here seen it?

After my WH's & my conversation the other day I was feeling so good. On top of the mountain. It's a long ways down.

I'm not sure I've learned anything here. My head must be very thick. I do have expectations. I can say I don't or won't but I do. If I didn't I wouldn't have gotten married. I do expect my H to do his part (ok get the 2x4's ready) and I expect his caring, concern, and pleasing of each other. I do realize it's his choice to do or not to do. I'm just getting real tired of lip service. I'm tired of being as O&H as I can be WITHOUT blaming him and not getting the same in return. I'm tired of him saying yes he'll do something (whatever I've requested) to help our M and then nothing. I'm especially tired of it when I've asked whether it's something he wants to do or not. If not that's ok, just be honest. I'm tired of ME being the one who has to put things in motion. I'm tired of getting what he wants to give and nothing more. I'm tired of feeling responsible for this mess. I DIDN"T DO THIS why do I feel like I have to fix it? Why do I even care anymore? Why do I want him so badly to love me? Not only love me but be in love with me? And can I be in love with him again?

One of my most important EN's is words of affirmation. Geezzz feel like loser even admitting this...I crave my H to tell me I look nice, call me a sweet nickname, say I'm pretty to him, he likes this or that about me. He KNOWS this many times very specifically he's been told. NOTHING from him. I've even sunk as low as to fish for compliments......when and that's few and far between they are really off handed compliments. I asked him directly night before last, " I put makeup on today to pretty myself up for you" and he said nothing. I asked him do you not give me compliments because it would be a lie? He thought for a few minutes & said no, but then doesn't know why he doesn't. Same old song and dance.

I just found out by a slip of my WH that he's been 'saving' money secretly, locked away in his gun cabinet (where he thinks I don't have the combination). He's saving money for something he wants to buy-another gun. He seemed pretty pleased with himself that he's saving money without dipping into the regular bill money. I don't quite see it that way. I see it as he's getting more weekly money than he needs to eat lunch, get drinks and is putting a strain on the weekly budget. He apparently has been doing this for awhile, it looked like at least a couple hundred dollars in there. He said he hasn't counted it. What hurts is we have been talking for several months about doing our finances together, saving for such things that each of us 'wanted' and things we needed for the house, etc. I'm hurt. I'm scared, what else is he hiding or doing secretly? I'm pi$$ed too!

Has he progressed as much as I think or is he pulling the wool over my stupid eyes? I'm really confused and getting fed up. Do things ever really change? I'm beginning to think not so much with him, he's only going to do/give what he wants and I'm suppose to settle for that as enough. I don't want to settle anymore, I want more.

Sorry everyone, hopefully this is just a bad day....I've got alot to think about here.

MVG sorry you are having a bad day.

Unfortunately I feel this way most of the time. I know that I need to change some things about myself for the better but I get so upset sometimes thinking that I am doing all the work when he is the one who messed it up.

I know that there were things that I did wrong in our M too, but even so he did things wrong as well and I did not have an affair. This is all just so hard but hopefully it will be worth it in the end. That is what I keep praying for anyway.

Again sorry you are having a bad day and I am sure my post is not helping but try to hang in there.

mvg,

you need to speak to him about the money. You need to be honest with him about the fact that it's not so much the saving as it is the HIDING of the savings. Let him know that it saddens/angers/insert emotion here, when you feel like something is being hidden from you, and it erodes the trust and foundation you are trying to build. This is a time for POJA. If he wants to save money for a weapon, then this needs to be discussed, especially if it's an actual strain on the budget. He could put a little less away at a time, leaving more in the budget for general household needs.

As far as the lack of admiration, I understand where you are coming from.

This is going to probably irk you a bit, so prepare yourself. Maybe your anger and frustration is ALL your FWH is focusing on, and to him, that's not attractive (this is the problem I'd been having, BTW). Also, having a need is fine, it's normal, but being NEEDY can be unattractive also. Focus inward, on you feeling good about yourself. Voice your concerns openly, honestly, without anger, and with a willingness to compromise so that you are both happy.

Continue to fill your FWH's EN's as you know and can. It's when you do something ONLY for something in return that you get into trouble, build anger and work toward withdrawal. Don't forget to DO for yourself. Cook something YOU enjoy, watch something you enjoy, read something for joy, not just to learn; take a long, steamy bath; do your nails, or get them done. Don't forget that you must be happy, and that you are the key to that happiness, not someone else.

Others can enhance your happiness and life, but you are responsible for your own happiness. It's a very hard lesson for me, to realize that I am my own worst enemy. Be open about he things that bother you, or concern you, and let go of the outcome.

SC it's hard isn't it? I hope you can find some way to find your peace.

SL thanks for your post, and no you didn't irk me. I needed someone to point out to me those things. After I posted this I read your thread and had to laugh...seemed you were reading my mind, it was good to read.

I am going to speak to H about the 'saving' money. For some reason I do feel like he thinks he wasn't doing anything wrong. Probably felt like he wasn't using so why not save it. This is sorta good for him because he's not a saver, at least when it comes to household money. So I can see (guessing here) his point. The 'secretly' is the problem and I'll address that soon, VERY soon when I can do it without LBing, DJing or anything like that.

The rest of my rant,EN's, I'll have to deal with inwardly I guess.

SL I don't think I come across as 'needy' at least I hope I don't. I haven't focused (except here maybe) on what he's not doing rather I've been very appreciatative of his positive changes. I have only mentioned my other EN's on occassion (every couple of months). I 'think' I've mentioned a EN then moved on. I haven't harped on it with him. My disappoint has been when it has been mentioned he has agreed to pursue M rebuilding and then doesn't do what he agreed to.

It is also frustrating when I say, can I ask you a question and he says 'here we go again'. He has no idea what I'm going to ask,but says that. I can imagine he thinks it's all about 'it' again. It hasn't been about 'it' in a LONG time. It hasn't been a blame game either. It's been a rebuilding process.

I will try to still be patient. I like him alot better now. But liking someone doesn't necessarily mean I want to be married to them. That doesn't sound very nice I know, I hope maybe as the day progresses I'll like him even more.

Well darn, here I thought this would be a positive post and I don't think that mission was accomplished!

I'm beginning to believe I have terminal PMS....pre-PMS,during PMS, after PMS, ALL the time PMS. I'm just being impatient. Thanks everyone for reading this far into my rant/instability or what ever I have today.

Ah, the verbal equivalent of rolling your eyes. YIKES! Not very nice or anywhere close to MB. I would suggest when he takes this tack that you tell him how that makes you feel and then let him know that you do not want to FORCE a discussion on him. You will ask again at a later time. Then just drop it and walk away. YOu will need to find a place to be alone and deal with your anger when he does this. A heavy bag would REALLY come in handy...

BTW, your conversations may be about the A for some time to come; about the damage done by the A, not necessarily the sexual acts or relationship he had, but the effects on you and your marriage. This is kind of a no brainer. I understand his reaction, but it's just cruel. Believe me, I know, my FWH doesn't roll his eyes NOW, but he has many a time. My approach back then needed some tweaking, but it is still a cruel response.

Now, when I ask to talk, and PWC agrees, he is the one who is shaking and having that fight or flight PHYSICAL response to talking about our issues. I no longer have that; I'm much more relaxed. I don't know what this means, but it seems like progress. I don't think PWC would be shaking if the subject didn't matter to him one bit.



Be patient, but be reasonable with yourself. Don't try to stuff anger that needs to be dealt with between you and your spouse. Sitting and waiting for someone to change can be a lot to ask of yourself. This is where self care and personal recovery come in.

Remember to take time for yourself, mvg. One of my MAJOR problems was that I was solely focusing on the M, on PWC and on progression there, so much so, that I wasn't catering to my TAKER. My Taker needs me to give to it, whether that be a nice hot bath, a nap, quiet time, reading time, crocheting time, whatever. Take a moment or two, here and there to refresh. I think of it like shutting my computer down now and then, just to NOT have to think about things.

Not every moment of your existence needs to be devoted to thinking on your M. It's important to maintain MB principles, of course. It's also important that you are in tip top shape for recovery, both personal and M.

Just take a few moments to cater to yourself; pamper yourself in some way.

BTW, your comment about the perpetual PMS is, in my experience, what all that anger does to your body. Pay attention. Be careful of inanimate objects at this time also, for they may taunt you; you could lose your cool, and take out a perfectly good pair of pants. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

Oh SL thank God for you! I had a chuckle with that post! I certainly HOPE it wouldn't be a pair of his prized camo hunting pants...that would be so BAD! hehehehehe

And thank you for validating the cruelity...that is how I feel and I will walk away next time. I will admit I was sorta cruel back to him the last conversation when I asked a question...had to do with giving compliments the whole putting makeup on thing I posted above. What I didn't tell here was my response after I asked him if he felt that would be lying and that's why he didn't give me compliments, he said no that wasn't it (by this time I had had enough especially after the whole here we go again comment WITH eyerolling )"so what the F is wrong with you?!" LOL He got a bit of a surprised look on his face! THEN I walked away.

I do value my alone time, which I'm so fortunate to get every day. And it can be a time of rejuvinating.

Thanks for being here.

mvg, SL, SC....

I hear you and I feel your pain. My DH acted on what your DH's may be feeling:


This was actually part of DH's defense when he got busted....he 'didn't think it was any big deal, that he was doing nothing wrong...'

That slid into justification for creating multiple lies....which continued for 4 days (I only knew on Day 4, thank God). But when he saw how I acted after I knew (but waited for MC to 'spew'...hey that's a line for my poem)....anywhoo.......oooo oooo oooo.

I'll start over.

He lied. He defied. I cried.

Dang it....gotta stop this rhyming stuff.

OK....dddeeeeepppp breath.

After he lied, he said he just felt like he was protecting me from the truth which was nothing to lie about. But he had already lied so he felt he had to protect me more.

He honestly did not think he was doing anything wrong...or so he says.

Although I dont want any of you to have to endure what happened (details on my Smiles/Trials thread), the good part was that after I discovered his lies, I asked him calmly, accepted what he told me, and remained calm the entire weekend and all during MC session and afterwards.

THIS GOT TO HIM IN A BIG WAY. I gritted my teeth and squelched all LB's from erupting for nearly 72 hours....and I did not lurk much or post at all during that time.

It worked! For the first time in our 35 years we've known each other, he called me yesterday and softly and sincerely said, "I just want to tell you how blessed I feel to have you for my wife. I am so thankful you are such a strong and committed person. It's sooooo exciting to think about coming home to see you tonight." (Silence on my part.....I could not believe what I was hearing.) Then last night we continued our discussion about why he lied in a calm, civil manner with no eye-rolling or 'here we go again' attitude.

Dang, I gotta go to work, so I'll post the part about "control" on that thread later....if I can find it!

Hang in there, mvg....and remember, I'm a year ahead of you so don't compare our success with your sitch too much. PATIENCE is the key....it will come.

Ace

MVG - I would be upset about the money also. Not the money itself, but the secret behind it. I also know what you mean about the EN's. However, I am the opposite of you (on this anyway lol)

My H gives me all the words of affirmation I can handle..and then some. It is one of his top emotional needs..but not mine. I don't bring this up because I don't really care he does it and because he never did it before. I don't really care about words..I care about action. My top EN he isn't meeting right now is financial.

For me it is security. To him money isn't a big deal. I crave that security and the fact that he isn't fulfilling his part is killing me. Now, I know he just had surgery and that is why we both agreed he shouldn't get a job till after it was over...but it is still digging at me.

I must also learn to be patient and wait to see what he does about it. It is very hard given our financial situation as you know.

Stay strong and try to be patient. I wish we lived closer to eachother so we could take care of ourselves together. I have a feeling you are a fun date lol. Pedicure sounds really good to me.

All joking aside..they are right. We must learn to make ourselves happy first. We both have a problem with that. Enmeshment I think LA calls it. Hard to unravel isn't it? And remember that neither of us are very far along in this.

Go to my thread and list 5 things that your H has changed that you appreciate and I will do the same. We will just have to focus on that list for now and be grateful for the things listed. Count our blessings instead of our hardships.

Ace thanks for your words of wisedom. They are a comfort.

GC thank you also.

I am thinking about 'how' to address his 'hiding' $ without messing up all the good things he is doing. Sorta feel like being between a rock & hard place.

Any great ideas of how to handle the money situation yet? Just checking in on you.

Hey guys, thanks for the kind words, I agree my anger never really got out. I do get like I want to rip something apart, throw a huge piece of furniture across the room, anything that can destroy something. Then I breath and calm down, and realize that won't help if I break apart furniture. Maybe I can destroy the stuff in the living room, its old, could use new.

I have been better the last few days, until something happens, a tiff between me and the H, then it floods back. I was driving the truck and trailer full of farm animals the other night, he was raising his voice about my driving, I was doing everything he was telling me to do (he drives this kind of stuff way more then me) then he accuses me of never taking his advice what?! what what what? I was! then later when I knew I was calm, I asked him why he said that, hmm,,he doesen't know, what what what? ok! I see I am just made to feel like an idiot and you don't know.

MVG, thats rough, one thing I do have to say is my H always gives me compliments, always, it is nice.
the money thing is hard to take, its not about money, its about hiding and sneaking, this needs to be fixed.
are you in MC? not sure if you said that already sorry.
Dose H get it?

I asked H about the $ hiding. His response..."I wasn't hiding anything, you said if we/I wanted something to save for it, so I was". THIS is NOT what I said, UGH! I said that 'we' needed to go over the finances TOGETHER to find ways to save together for things we both wanted/needed. I don't know if I wasn't clear OR he's not listening fully. I think he's not fully listening.

DF, you know ever since DDay if H raises his voice which he doesn't normally do, I get VERY anxious (very unusal for me). I think because I'm trying so hard not to AO, DJ Or LB it upsets me tremendously. I also find when he does that I want to get away from him....it hurts me and I don't really understand why. It's not what he says but just the raising of his voice.

We had GD here for 2 days/nights so I haven't posted much. We're doing ok here.

Missed ya, mvg, but I've been busy, too.

The raised voice issue you and DF both mentioned. We struggled with that, too. For years, H, then WH, now FWH and DH did not give credence to the value of body language....he only responded to actual words. Do ya know how frustrating that is? It's actually what started the fight while we were on vacation. We pulled the car over and YELLED AT EACH OTHER for about 5 minutes straight!

I got so frustrated, I just started parroting him back my answers to his questions in the same volumne and inflection I could mimic.

It stopped him.....this was only a month ago, exactly a year after D-Day #4 (when I had tried to kick him out and move on alone.) That night in Florida, it finally got to him and the next day he was willing to talk. Then he cried, saying he did not know why he did that.

It's now a boundary issue we are working with MC on. H does not raise his voice now...well, he hasn't in a month, even when I was giving him the 3rd degree cuz I knew he had lied. He did get anxious, but he didn't yell....just talked real fast.

I, too, forget (sorry)....are you guys working with an MC?

Ace

Hi Acey and MVG, yeah, what is it about them (H's) raising their voices or getting frustrated with us that cause's such problems for us? don't know, I dealt with way worse in my life, is it because I am just not taking anymore? I think thats it, we know we don't deserve anything from these men, we aren't taking it, why should we? look what they have done, why should we even take what they say? right? do I sound like I have an attitude and I am trying to get you guys to chime in with me?
right now at this moment H is pouting on the couch because he hung his coat on the banister for the 20th time and wrecked the Christmas decorations that I had there,,,this is how bad it is ok? so now I am thinking about taking EVERYTHING down, the tree, and all the decorations, how bad is that? spiteful huh? I am still thinking. I should of worked the farm today and not worried about anything else.

DF you are going over the top! Just take the bannister decorations down if he's going to hang his coat there. Taking EVERYTHING down is not good it's over reacting. Take a deep breath, several if you need to. Or ask him VERY nicely if he wouldn't do that because it messes the decorations up. NO destroying anything! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Ace we are NOT working with MC. Tried one not good so haven't tried any others,we were SUPPOSE to be doing MB together! hahaha I do MB and he does what he THINKS he should...that is our current dilema.

He is making progress but he is not doing MB, he's doing fly by the seat of your pants. I've tried and tried to get him to re-read the MB basic stuff, a couple of books..HNHN and 5 love languages, he always says he will but so far hasn't.

It's very hard to keep suggesting he do reading or whatever, as he is trying so much harder these days. It makes me appear that NOTHING will ever satisfy me in his eyes. And that's not true, I'd just like him to meet my most important EN's and make me a priority in his life.

I should have said in the post above, his raising his voice could be a good thing...he's at least showing some emotion whereas before it was nothing...no response...no reaction.

I'm not quite sure where to go from here. Seems like we're sorta at a stand still. I don't think he 'gets' things still have a ways to go and I don't know HOW to make him realize that.

The last couple of days I've been thinking this is as far as he's willing to go and I either have to accept it or move on. And that's a difficult decision when he is trying. What do to, what to do?!

Sounds like we're a bunch of ladies in the same place (except I think Acey and her FWH are further along). It's been 7 months now since PWC came home. It's just now starting to feel more normal, more relaxed.

Now, what I've learned is that you must speak up if something is bothering you. Regardless of what we THINK the FWH SHOULD do, if you don't say it out loud to them, they have no idea (even if it does seem very inconsiderate). Just because it's not something you would do, does not mean it's something THEY wouldn't do.

I think what bothers me the most is that I've been thru such a living h3ll and finally am making my way out of that abyss, but some of the inconsiderate things, and lack of enthusiasm for meeting my top EN's takes me back to that place of fear. BIG FEARS--of rejection, of helplessness, or FEELING so much. It's easy to go back to that place, if you let yourself.

That's why I say what's on my mind, even if I don't have the perfect words; I try to find them. Sometimes I hit the mark, and we communicate, sometimes I let anger reach into my vocabulary and body language. REgardless, I say what I need to in order to make him aware of things.

I can't say that I do this RIGHT AWAY, but I do it. I'm working on the right away. Sometimes the anger is ALL mine, against a PERCEIVED injustice. I KNOW that it's really just old feelings of anger from the devastation caused by the A's that mingles with the now.

Anyway, I do prattle on, if you let me.

I have so much more floating around in my brain, but I need to post that on my thread, when I have time.

Keep on keepin on ladies!

I hear ya SL! Maybe it's the holiday thing...expectations when we're not suppose to have them. UGH!

I long for the day my WH will take the initative, get over HIS guilt and decide I'm important enough to get his a$$ in gear and try to repair the damage the way I need it repaired. I hope that's just not a pipe dream.

It's crazy when I think about it, how we ALL feel so much the same, to the point that we think and write the same words! It is HIS GUILT. I see it as FEAR and allowing it to keep you rutted, because doing things in the face of fear is tough (but OOOOH so worth it).

It's crazy when I think about it, how we ALL feel so much the same, to the point that we think and write the same words! It is HIS GUILT. I see it as FEAR and allowing it to keep you rutted, because doing things in the face of fear is tough (but OOOOH so worth it).

I often think of your quote in your sig. Fear is a baaaaddd thing if it keeps you stuck in the same place.

I'm not sure how to get WH to address his fear. I am pretty upfront with my feelings, he is more..reserved...no secretative with his. I just can't seem to get through that wall. Suggestions?

I've asked him what can I do to be a better wife to you.(His ENQ didn't give much-everything is fine according to him). He says if I think of anything I'll let you know.

That's why I just feel like we are at a stand still. NOt a BAD stand still but not moving forward.

I would suggest what is continually suggested to me, keep working on you, regardless of his participation.

He has to get his own head together, figure his own way. You can lead, by example, by continuing to be open, by continuing to state what bothers you, and by continuing to find your happiness within.

It's really tough to continue to change and grow, and watch the WS seemingly sit rutted. He's probably not nearly as rutted as you think; he's probably making forward progression, at a snail's pace. It's tuogh when YOU have all of the tools, and oh so want them to use them, but can't make them.

I know that PWC could benefit from many of the books I have read or been reading. He hasn't read them, asked about them, anything. This is his choice. I would never have forced him to read anything before the A's, and I'm not going to start now. I apply what I'm learning to everyday life, and it is infused in what I do, how i carry myself and what I say. When we talk, I talk about how this has changed for me, or that, and talk about my fears, not directly, but in context with the conversation.

It's slow going, but I'm not carrying or pulling him anymore. He's on his own rope. I'm climbing, showing him the footholds, it's up to him. I can't stop fixing me so that I can WAIT for him. He can catch up in his own time.