LovingAlong, I am MUCH better with how we communicate now. Not perfect and rarily LB, DJ or AO...I think. I do tell him very often how much I appreciate what he does and the changes he's making.

SL, Being honest will NEVER hurt your M, not if done out of love and respect. Also, don't repeat yourself. If you've already told him what you need, then leave that for him. Work on you; make sure you are giving YOURSELF what you need.

Don't repeat myself. ewwwwwwww I don't like that at all. I know you're right,he's heard it MANY MANY times and still does nothing to meet those specific needs. So I guess repeating it isn't going to have any effect now either.

I'm trying to be 'good' to myself, I do take my own advice now and treat myself as a friend would. I just so miss a H who loves me and isn't withholding emotions from me and wants to meet my most important EN's. I really don't know how long I'm going to wait that out. If he can't/won't or whatever meet those there is no reason to stay. I know that sounds horrible and very ungrateful for the positive, I actually feel bad that is how I feel. He had NO problem giving them to the OW...that's what hurts the most. Deny me EXACTLY what I've asked for but give it to her.

LovingAlong I too wonder if there is something wrong with me. Actually I'm pretty sure there is I just don't know what.

There is nothing WRONG with you, mvg.

Your sentiment, about giving to OW and then not giving to you, is rejection, on some level. WE are all dealing with that. Reading Krazy 71's posts brings all those feelings of anger back to me. I want what I didn't have, that you then gave to OW.

Well, I'm looking for what I want and need, not what he gave OW. I have no earthly idea what he gave OW. I'm pretty sure sex was involved, which I don't get right now, but that's another story.

I want my husband back, not some backstabbing arsehole, that lied to everybody, including himself, so that leaves out what he gave to OW. I want all of him, not just part of him, warts and all, not just the 'pretty' stuff.

We all have our limits; I have mine. I can't, in good conscience, continue down that angry path hoping for some new response. It wasn't going to happen.

I also recognize that I am dealing with a marriage, not an affair . A marriage that was headin' down the tubes BEFORE he had the A's; A marriage that is still suffering from lack of communication, intimacy and safety. I'm starting with communication.

I do still feel rejection, because my FWH doesn't show desire for me. Why wouldn't I? I just don't allow it to reside with me for any real period of time. If he doesn't desire me, it's not because I'm NOT desireable; HIS LOSS.

I also don't want my husband PERFORMING for me, like a trained animal. I want to be DESIRED, WANTED. I don't want to say "Hop to it" and get a non-enthused sexual partner. I want the WHOLE SHEBANG. I want excitment and all that goes with it. I can wait for that.

I think you'll know when you've done all that you can; you will have made peace with yourself over it, and you will be sure. Right now, none of us is sure of anything.

Keep trying, keep finding your way. Tell me if you find a better way. We're listening.

mvg:

I understand what you said and darn it, I'm feeling exactly the same way!!

I said my H had never been a man of words, he never talks much, but you know what, he and the OW were talking and exchanging text msgs throughout the day and even at midnight...I want that too, but I'm not getting any.

Now I'm reading a book called "Loving what is". It has some interesting ways to question your thoughts and make peace with it. Here is an example about a woman questioning her thoughts with Katie (the auther) about her husband's lack of expressing feelings after his affair:

Marisa: ...I'm angry at my husband. I want David to express what he is feeling when he's feling it, because I'm tired of asking. And I'm too impatient to wait.

Katie: "Husbands should express what they're feeling" --- Is that true?

Marisa: Yes.

Katie: And what's the reality on this planet?

Marisa: Well, basically they don't.

Katie: So how do I know that husbands shouldn't express their feelings? They don't[the audience and Marisa laugh] sometimes. That's reality. "Husbands should express their feelings" is just a thought that we believe without a single piece of evidence. How do you react when you belive this lie? Can you hear where I'm coming from when I call it a lie? It's not true that he should express his feelings, because the truth is that he doesn't, in your experience. This doesn't mean that he's not going to fully express his feelings in ten minutes or in ten days. But the reality is that right now, it's not true. So how do you react when you think this thought?

Marisa: I'm angry and hurt.

Katie: Yes, and how do you treat him when you blieve the thought that he should express his feelings now, and he doesn't?

Marisa: I feel like I'm prying, I'm demanding something.

Katie: I would drop the "I feel like." You pry and demand.

marisa: But I...Oh! Yes. That's exactly what I do.

Katie: And how does it feel when you pry and demand?

Marisa: It doesn't feel good at all.

.......

There are a lot more and deeper stuff but I can't type them all.

I guess some messages in this book is good in that we hurt ourself using our own believes and nobody can hurt us except our own thoughts. And by questioning the thoughts and turn it around, we may find peace in us and leave whatever is other people's problem with them and mind our own growth and our own peace more. Maybe that's what we need to do during this journey.

I know it's easy said than done, but it is self love. We need to stop hurting ourselves with those hurtful thoughts, especially the ones about OW.

LovingAlong.

Thanks SL & LovingAlong, your patience,openness & honesty is so appreciated. I think I might be getting a clearer picture. I will try very hard to overcome my desires that cloud the present!

(((happy Friday)))

update: We had a very nice evening last night. H was chatty, attentive, and sweet and most importantly I felt it.

I will keep trying very hard to live in the now and pray for my desires to not cloud my current blessings.

We had a nice weekend. Nothing 'special' but a nice weekend.
I did not bring up my wanting more, and it wasn't as hard as I was making it.

I'm really trying hard to heed the advice given here. Live in today and enjoy.

Thanks!

Good job, mvg, enjoying the time together.

The Christmas party was ROCKIN'! Lots of people. It was really crowded. I got a chance to talk to everybody. I got many comments on my dress and hair (the girls noticed my shoes). People said that I looked pretty, and some commented about it multiple times, in a really complimentary way. It was really nice.

By the end of the night, my head was THROBBING (~1AM), so PWC ended up driving us home.

I relaxed Saturday, and we decorated the tree. I had some champagne and enjoyed the night. I stayed in the moment, also.

Keep striving to live in the now, mvg.

I oooooh, so understand where you guys are right now. I have faith that this is all part of the journey. Let's learn from it, instead of wishing it away.

How ironic....... as we learn from it, it (challenging journey bumps) very possibly will just GO AWAY! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Thanks, SL.....

Ace

Thanks SL.

I am so glad you had a good time at the party.

I hope you're right about learning from the trials we face from ourselves and others.

Hi girls:
I am busy this week. The whole floor of my office is undergoing renovation and we can only work in the computer lab. It's hard and I don't get to even read much of the board now...Anyway, just want to say that I'm thinking of you...
I have a good several days with H also, by staying in the present, I see a lot of things he is doing and showing me his love...some things he is not comfortable doing, but I can see he is trying and I do have some specific questions to ask you ladies, but I need to wait until my office is done to get some privacy...
SL, I read your recent post and I really feel for you. I do understand. I can't figure out what's going on with you H either. It sounds very strange to me. I will share more about our earlier days also, there are some similarities with your sitchs, but there are some differences also, I will try to post more later...But I just want to say that you are a very strong and lovely woman, believe in that no matter what he does or does not do for now...

MVG - Just got caught up on all the posts I have missed. Haven't paid homage to my computer like normal. I know exactly where you all are. But as you know my problem is the opposite. I get all the affection and words of affirmation I can get...more than I want. That is my problem, however, not his. That is how he shows his love...I don't. I am trying to be patient and let him show me his love the way he wants to. I am also trying very hard to return the affection and words of affirmation back to him. This is proving very difficult. Not the affection part (it is getting easier), but I am finding the words of affirmation very hard to do. It's like they get caught in my throat.

I am making myself tell him thank you for the little things he does and to tell him that I notice his improvements. It is very hard. Before the A, I know he did these things..but I thought I should get them anyway so I never acknowledged them. Then he stopped and things got bad fast. I am doing my best to give him what he needs. Odd that a man like him could crave affection and encouragment the most, huh.

He has been much more attentive to the financial difficulties as of late (late last night..lol). But he did come up with an idea of how to drum up some money which at least shows me he is trying and understands.

It shows that he is listening to me and is doing his best to give me what I need. I am very impatient, as you know, and I am trying to remember not to push him.

And by the way...I managed to refrain from slamming on my brakes on the way to his doctors this morning. See, I am improving. lol.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

You know GC in one of the books...can't remember which one, it says sometimes you just have to practice doing the right things even when they feel unnatural...given time they become natural. So I wish you well on that.

It is a GREAT sign he's at least trying to come up with solutions! ^5 WH This is a big positive.

Must give you kudos too for NOT slamming on the breaks.

LovingAlong, please let me know when you post more about your sitch. I'm glad you are able to stay in the here and now. I'm struggling with it. I'm hoping it's just the holiday stuff...suppose to be all lovey dovey, happy and romantic...I WISH! I can't wait for the holidays to be over if that's the case.

SL keep up your good works! I read and posted on your thread. I KNOW you'll make the right decision (whether to talk to him or not) for you when it's the right time. Have you considered that maybe your H is so ashamed of himself and guilty of hurting you that's why he's so hands off? Just a thought I had, have no idea whether he fits that description or not.

(((prayers to all)))

Here and Now.....where and what?

I guess that means I'm struggling, too. Bulk mail triggered me today. WUWT (What's Up With That...) I just made that up, I think.

This reminds me of LC's signs segment on the Vacation thread, so I think I'll post it over there. If I forget, mvg, remind me to post about how bulk mail was a sign from God, at least I think it was.

Acey

Will do Ace! I like the WUWT!

Hey mvg,

I'm taking a bit of a time out before discussing anything with PWC--I'm FAR too emotional right now--thinking it's a hormonal shift, and probably a bit of a dip in my own coaster. I'm looking at the changes I have witnessed over the past month and looking on what he HAS done and does do for me. It's tough because affection is my TOP need right now.

I can see why the BS is the biggest threat to recovery once it begins. I GET it now. WUWT?! Ha, I had to use it!

I do think it's time for us to at least go through the motions of physical touch, even if it's something really small. I liked LA's suggestions. I have to be honest, too. I don't have a lot of faith that PWC will be receptive. So far, he has shown me that he is not . He has said that he doesn't believe in faking it until you make it. It's either there or it's not. IT sounded like a lot of babble, so I turned the tables on him at that time, and asked him if he was just head over heels love at first sight with OW#1 or Aimless. His answer, "well, no, it developed over time." riiiiiight. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

He tries so hard to defend this position (well, in the past and even our last conversation on this subject not long ago). It takes effort and time to fall in love, It takes WORK, to pay all that attention to the person of your choosing, woo them. The feelings develop over time. He knows this to be true, but tries to make it NOT apply in our sitch .

Anway, I know I'm hyper emotional right now, because as I type this, my IRE is rising. I just wanna wring his neck sometimes, when he says asaninie stuff like the above.

anyway, I need to chill a bit. As Foxy lady said, I do have a lot going on, just with me, and would be wise to think this through before DOING anything.

SL you have more than your fair share on your plate right now. Taking a break to sit back and observe is a GOOD place.

I can see why the BS is the biggest threat to recovery once it begins. I GET it now. WUWT?! Ha, I had to use it!

Seems like that's not fair either does it?! UGH!!! I understand wanting to wring their necks! A nice dream huh?!
Again, we wait, hope and pray.

Have you seen the V8 commercial? Someone thunks the other on the forehead when they make a BAD food choice and coulda had a V8?! THAT'S HOW I FEEL ALOT! Why oh why can't Ws's feel our need?! WUWT?! (that little acronymn is getting good use <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> )

SL will he pull away from you if you held his hand, hugged him, or give him a quick peck of a kiss?

As I've probably mentioned my WH wasn't a touchy kinda guy but once I started with the quick peck, squeeze of the arm, grab his hand give a quick squeeze and walked away, he found he liked that and will on occassion do the same. Maybe your's would too???

My thoughts and prayers are with you. When is your surgery?

PWC doesn't recoil in any way when I do touch him. I just need to get back in the HABIT of doing it, and then see what that begets. We'll see.

My surgery is the 4th of January.

Hee Hee Hee...made me laugh out loud!!!! I've posted the signs story but put it on the Smiles thread....too serious for the Vacation thread. Hey SL...join us in taking a break from all this on the Vacation thread.....love to have you anytime.......every one else, too.

Acey

I read on and off, but haven't posted. I'll read up Ace! Thanks!

Hey Ace! See it IS true, we can learn something new everyday! WUWT! LOL

SL, try the touch and walk away..it really didn't take long for my H to discover he liked it. Now the second part of that is getting HIM to touch you. I normally would do the quick kiss on head or cheek when H is on computer. What I started AFTER he started liking the attention is...say he called me over to show me something on puter..I'd look at him and say "I know you called me just so you could hug me (kiss me, whatever) while I read this" smile, and sure enough he'd do what I had mentioned. Feels a little silly BUT I get at least a little of what I want, and HOPEFULLY he's learning...he's rather thick headed at times.

Give it a shot, you've got no where to go but up.