Hey drugged out friend! I'm so surprised and HONORED that you took time to check in on ME while you are starting your recovery! GET BACK IN THAT BED and take care of YOU! (((THANK YOU SL)))

You might be right, maybe I just need to change how I think about I need and how he gives it. I was reading someone's post yesterday about giver & taker...and of course the brain cannot recall who or when...I have been the main giver in this R and he the taker. That's the dianamic I would like to change. My taker is getting very impatient since the EA.

Most everyone here wants/needs to get rid of whatever the OP came into contact with, gifts, furniture, etc. I WANT what he gave the OW. He gave her the words of affection, romance, dreams...the VERY things that for so many years I've BEGGED for. IMO if his words belonged to anyone it was ME.

So my conundrum (sp) is he's been very specifically told/asked/begged this. His response I hear you. But NO follow thru. So HOW do I reconcile myself to either he's not going to/can't/whatever? Am I wrong to feel what I NEEDED the most he gave to someone else and won't for me that there is a reason? It's killing me to think I'm either going to have to settle for what he will do and never admit WHY he can't meet my needs, or end this. I don't think I want to settle for second best (if even that).

Our 30th anniversary is coming up next month. I dread it. I don't want to 'celebrate' a mile stone that right now I feel is false.

Well enough rant....thanks friends.

Dr. Harley has 2 books which might be helpful:

Giver/Taker and His Needs/Her Needs.

What I learned from HNHN was HOW to communicate with H. Males hear and see different from us females. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

In G/T, I learned the g/t needs t/b balanced. So my Giver took a rest and I learned t/d less and got more. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

He doesn't wait on me hand and foot and I don't wait on him that way either. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> ..... and that's ok. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

L.

L.

Orchid said things a bit more succinctly than me. Find your confidence, mvg. When I said drop the rope, that was my way of saying that you aren't balanced right now. You're pulling. Give him a chance to start tugging. I think Giver/Taker would be a great book for you. Heck, it's great for us all, really.

Watch the movie "Fried Green Tomatoes" and think about Kathy Bates' character and how she began to gain confidence. Her attitude was that she still loved her H deeply, and did take care of him, but she cared a great deal about HERSELF, too. Instead of wrapping herself up in celophane and waiting by the door (which is not such a bad idea) which her husband wasn't responsive to, she began exercising and visiting with friends, while still taking care of her home and hearth. Confidence. Her husband noticed.

Hopefully, that made some sense...

Thanks Orchid and SL (and why are you out of bed again??????)

SL if you pop back by again, how are you feeling???? Is it getting easier day by day yet?

I think the giver/taker is what I need to read and apply. I do need some balance. I have HNHN, great book.

I'm doing well today, mvg, thanks for asking. I've been up and about alot today, mostly just around the house, but I have a bit more energy. I took a luxurious nap this afternoon, too, so don't you worry 'bout this girl. I'm taking it easy, but giving myself a little push every day.

I am about 8-10 hours between pain meds now, and don't have a lot of pain in between, mostly just stiffness.

It does seem to be getting easier day by day, but I have read of people with this surgery backsliding a bit, or something slipping out of place or other tragedy, so I'm following docs orders and hoping for the best recovery. I've always had very short healing times, but this is pretty major stuff, so I'm following the rules, kinda like MB, huh?.

Hi SL:

I'm so glad to hear you are doing so good in all front!!

I'm doing the same thing: giving and asking for hugs and kisses. And I ask for him to scratch my back also <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />. It's a great ice breaker sometimes. H asks the same thing when he wants a little more attention.

Keep up the good work and you are truly an inspiration for all of us here...

Snowy

mvg:

I can understand your frustration about things not progressing as fast as you want. I'm in the same shoes.

My H never reads any books and he tells me he won't. It's so frustrating. But he is changing so much of his behaviors that I have to take his effort very seriously even if it's not my way. We also still have communication problems, but we are better than we were pre-A in that department. Before we wouldn't mind attacking each other and was horrible in being considerate at all about each other feelings. Now things are changing and we become more caring and loving for sure.

But those don't seem enough because the A is just such a monster and it destroys so much things. As I read in the recovery board, for some, the normal peace and quiet can be a trigger, sending signals that things might stay the way it is and FWHs are content about what things are. But we want more. And I notice that I keep wanting more in this process. Thinking back 6 months, I couldn't believe we would be exchanging hugs and kisses and we would have great SF each week...But now I have them and I still want more, and I want deeper intimacy...

I don't know. Maybe looking back and counting our achievements will help us keep the perspective. Maybe being stuck is only our perception and our FWHs are keeping up and doing their share and we just stopped noticing them...

I think we are here for the long run and we can climb the mountain one step at a time and the view on the top is just as beautiful when we get there no matter how slow...

Remember to take care of yourself in the mean time. I find that when I am in a good mode, H is so much happier and we do great together. When I become moody, things slide down.

Just some of my random thoughts...

Snowy

This speaks volumes, doesn't it ladies? When I am upbeat and happy, contented, PWC is too, and he smiles and laughs. When I am down, he is ON GUARD, with every good reason, for fear that I may burn the shirt on his back, I guess (just kidding, girls). But think of it, being on guard all of the time, waiting for the question/answer session that they fear is coming.

I say, let's try to achieve intimacy by making things quiet and safe. Discuss what concerns you sort of matter of factly, keeping those emotions at bay when you can, but open up when it's calm and quiet.

Do you ladies remember how effortless it was to just chit chat with your husbands? I do, and that is what I'm trying to achieve, in mind, body and spicket (oops, I mean spirit).

Our lives together will never be the same, but can be better in many, many ways. This is my new direction, and this requires me dropping my own old ways and old ways of thinking, communicating and such.

I say, keep gliding along, and try not to OVERTHINK your husbands or their motives. I think it's not nearly as sinister in their heads as we might think, probably not sinister at all. They are fumbling, just as we are.

Now, I still don't get why they (our FWH's) won't follow a plan. Could be fear, stubbornness, or something else. HOWEVER, if we follow and plan and they walk along side of us, they are, in essence, following the plan to some extent. Food for thought.

Thanks ladies! Hey Snow where ya been? Enjoying life I hope. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

SL sooooooooo glad to hear you are progressing with your recovery.

I say, keep gliding along, and try not to OVERTHINK your husbands or their motives. I think it's not nearly as sinister in their heads as we might think, probably not sinister at all. They are fumbling, just as we are.

Now, I still don't get why they (our FWH's) won't follow a plan. Could be fear, stubbornness, or something else. HOWEVER, if we follow and plan and they walk along side of us, they are, in essence, following the plan to some extent. Food for thought.

From Snow But those don't seem enough because the A is just such a monster and it destroys so much things. As I read in the recovery board, for some, the normal peace and quiet can be a trigger, sending signals that things might stay the way it is and FWHs are content about what things are. But we want more. And I notice that I keep wanting more in this process.

I hear ya both. I'm trying to take care of ME. I can't get my brain to stop...I can't be still.

Most of my concern is, I've voiced my desires for YEARS even before the EA. I guess the EA really has put this on
the front burner for me. I don't think he's going to meet them. I'm panicing...I don't want to continue to live like this. I NEED what I NEED. I'm starting to resent him and his lack of commitment to recovery and to me. I would love to get down to the knitty gritty of WHY but I'm coming to the conclusion I'll never know why. So that leaves me either stay and be companions with benefits, or go. Internal fight, so many things to consider.

I want to thank you all for letting me vent my frustations and trying so hard to give me helpful advice. I deeply appreciate the support. I know it might not appear so, BUT I do consider what you each say. (((MB FRIENDS)))

mvg,

I'd hazzard a guess that we ALL feel like this on and off, throughout recovery. I know I have and will in the future. I read Snow's recovery thread and at month five, she and hubby were exactly where I am with PWC( and it seems you are).

PWC still does not intitiate touch, I do. He has some bad days, too, just like me. He's depressed, and withdrawn. I don't let that set my mood anymore. HE has to learn how to take care of these things.

Maybe stop focusing solely on the marriage, and do a major shift to yourself. Go to the makeup counter, get into an exercise regimen, do things you like, inviting him along. Again, follow the Harley principles, WHILE taking great care of yourself.

Consider that confidence is very attractive, to most.

mvg, do you have the book "The Language of Letting Go" by Melody Beattie? If not, I would advise you to get it. You will learn a lot about yourself in daily affirmations. It's not a book you have to read all at one time either, you can skip around if you like and focus on your major issues.

Hi ladies:

How are you today??

mvg: I read here almost daily but don't post often. My job is quite demanding and I'm also thinking about a career change. Plus I have two little ones 9 and 7 at home who constantly need my attention. My H works long hours...That leaves me so tight on time. I just can't post as often as I want to.

I'm doing just fine. H is loving and attentive lately. During these times when I feel his love, I don't have an urging need to bring up his A or let it hurt me inside. Maybe one day, I can truly feel peace and find forgiveness in my heart.

I tell you I have the same thoughts about kicking H out many many times. I even did once. I asked him to find a hotel to stay one day because of an A related argument we had during the day. I sensed his entitlement that day and was so furious and hurt. He actually stayed in that hotel that night. I think he wouldn't want to do that again after that. He was very down and sad when he came back the next night and I'm sure he realized how much he loved and needed his family that night. So it's not a bad thing in our case since I never did plan B. But I also realized that night that it's not him that I wanted to kick out, it's the pain inside me that I couldn't tolerate anymore and I thought by kicking him out I could feel better, but I didn't. I still loved my H dearly and by him leaving, nothing could be solved. So now we are together and rebuilding again.

SL, thank you for reading my thread. Yes, my H was just like yours for a very very long time. And yes, they can change. My H feels like a changed man now, although not completely the way I want him to become <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />. But I know it's his journey and I only play a helping role in his growth. He becomes very tender and gentle most of the time. He buys me a lot of stuff and he spends a lot more time with kids and me now. I wanted him to completely be open to me with his feelings, but he can't do that yet. But I see things are loosen up little by little in that front also with me not pushing anymore.

Hey, by the way, Victoria Secret is running a sale and I bought a lot of stuff last night. I tried those on in front of hubby before bed and boy he even blushed a little <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />.

SL, I ordered the book you recommended. I think I'm a codependent all along and have been taking care of hubby like his mom. And I need to change. I can see H likes my changes so far and I need to find inspirations to keep up...

Ok, it's getting too long and I need to go back to my work now. Just remember, no matter if I post or not, I'm reading and learning...

Snow

Y'all are the best! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Snow, thanks for posting with your limited time. You help to show what could be, and that our sitch's are similar. It helps to rebolster our hope and gives me ideas of how to keep on keepin on.

mvg, same to ya, lady!

Hey Snow I understand totally about not having time to post. I just wanted to make sure all was well with you. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Well folks, I FAILED MB this weekend BIG TIME. I didn't use ANYTHING I've learned totally F'uped. My fears got the absolutely the worst of me and it went downhill from there. So back to square one on working on ME. Me is all I can count on for sure so I've GOT to get my mind in sinc with reality (is that even how ya spell it?).Brain is on overload, stress high, self confidence REALLY in pitts, BUT I'm working on that with the Goddesses! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I hope you all are doing MUCH better!

Well you know with a post like that, we are obligated to ask you to spit it out.....what did you do? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> Just kidding.

So how can we help you get back on track?

It's late for me.....I gotta go get some beauty sleep. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />.

Will check out your thread laters. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

take care,
L.

No kidding here, spit it out, lady.

I've had a couple of down days, and I don't know why, working on being still. Maybe it's something with the moon?

Hi mvg:
Don't beat yourself up. If you need to apologize, do that, but don't beat yourself up...
I think it's very understandable that we LB as BS occasionally...It's not that it's right, but emotions are very hard to control and personal growth is not built in one day...
I still do periodic blow outs up until last months. Fingers crossed, I haven't done one in about a month now. My H was very fearful of that and I have seen the damage made to both of us and was determined to change that...But boy, it's just so hard sometimes for me to control my emotions.

But you know what, there is reward if we keep it up...
I talked to my H very calmly and lovingly this morning via email asking him to consider vasectomy since I don't want to be on pills forever and we both hate condomes. H's A is mostly EA (with two days in hotel before finally ending it, must be PA then of course, but H still couldn't come clean and tell me that yet. He maintained very strongly that there was no intercourse, like that really matters :-[).
He responded my email very fast and said he would consider doing that soon <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />.

Although he is not meeting some of my very important ENs, I know for sure that he is very committed to stay in this marriage and make it better.

I do have a lot of negative behaviors and negative thoughts also. But for now, I made my decision to rebuild my marraige and I'm going to try my very best.

Hang in there. Sending hugs to you.

Snowy

Thanks for the hugs.

SHort verision:
I didn't post all weekend cause I REALLY REALLY lost it. I told my H I had had enough it was done, it was over, I was leaving was the jest of it except ALOT louder and ALOT more tears though.

I'm driving myself nuts NEEDING my EN's to be met and the more I cater to him, ask, beg, scream, holler, whatever he just sits there. NO RESPONSE, nada. ANY response would be ok with me right now, I don't have any clue why he won't respond to me. He spent the night in the spare room after I informed him there was no way in H#%% he was sleeping in my room. Ha! Showed him! Yeah right...no big deal. HE DOESN"T GET IT. SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO I was very regretful that I had lost my cool/mind/attitude and embarrassed. I did apologize to him, NOT for what I said but for not doing it in a better fashion. Hey at least he doesn't know just how bad I messed up the MB prinicpals since he won't read the books or anything. He doesn't want me to leave. He'll try to be more accomidating of my needs. Same song, different day. We'll see. I'm not that hopeful BUT while I'm waiting I'm going to the GODDESS way....I'm sure SOMEONE somewhere would notice eventually. I hope he doesn't end up to little to late.

I really thought about not posting here anymore, that's how bad I REALLY messed it up. Then I thought ok, if I was H&O and admitted what happened to MY support system, maybe it will help someone else in what NOT to do AND because everyone here has stuck by me, and been so encouraging (even the 2x4's) I couldn't stay away. So back to square one, ME.

Oh, honey, do I get it.

I'm actually quite done with all of it for now. I don't really know what else to do. I can't recover a two-person process alone. It's not working.

So sad we're both in the same boat with guys that probably are for the most part decent..well kinda...but dumb as a box of rocks.

SL you are suppose to only be concerned with recovery right now! SO STOP thinking. To much time on your hands and brain goes wacko. YOU RECOVER from your surgery, when you are feeling better YOU can deal with that.

Go order some Goddess equipment that makes you feel good. Deal with the rest later. (((SL)))