TA,

I agree...to a point.

When you are talking about affair specific withdrawl etc then, yes..it would be very hard to pinpoint that FEELING...

...but as I said that feeling would be the result of an affair in progress and in order for that event to occur things have to ALREADY be structurally wrong with the exception of as mentioned before that nil percent genuine bonafide con artist who can meet a partner and seal the deal without making waves in their daily life.

If you think about the AMOUNT of time that has to be unaccounted for and the NUMBER of boundaries that have to be crossed..ENs that have to be going unmet both FOR the WS and BY the WS...there is no WAY for that to be going on with a "healthy" spouse who has good boundaries and high expectations without them noticing.

I think it takes a LOT for a person to admit that their lives and attitudes SUPPORT AND ENCOURAGE an affair to exist.

Even with hindsight it takes a lot.

I'll use a personal example.

As some may recall from years past my H was in the military during his A...part of my willingness to reconcile involved leaving that career to remove that high risk environment.

We did. Things got better. We accepted a lot of loss and personal hardship but we did turn the corner and recover from that loss.

Fast foreward several years and he is recalled.

For a year + of deployment.

Which kicks off with him spending a MONTH processing in the town he had the A in...OWs hometown.

Well yee haw...these good times just keep on coming.

*Rationally* I don't have any reason to specifically distrust him...he has never sought her out..never had an NC breach...and has made the lifestyle changes necessary to procure my faith in his good intentions...

...however...

I'd have to be a whack job to be "ok" with him spending a month there alone right before being deployed..right?

noodle<------whack job

Would you believe that someone [several someones actually] had to kick my personal azz to shake me out of my stupor and remind me that blind faith is a bad thing?

That it is strongly recommended that marriages that have survived an affair should not include overnight trips away [I'm pretty sure a month of overnights to affairsville would be also..ya know..bad]?

Well...yeah. So we get used to making accomodations and finding ways to cope without ever asking...hey, is this REALLY unavoidable or is it merely inconvenient?

It's INCONVENIENT to pull the kids out of school, rent a motel for a month and go personally myself live in OWs hometown...then move somewhere else entirely.

However...it is MORE inconvenient to fail to cover my butt and suffer the consequences.

I have to compare my choice with a STANDARD and when I fall beneath that standard I need to be aware of my vulnerable position. Doing less is going into DENIAL...fog.

Thank goodness I have so many people willing to help me be accountable...probably with interest for all those 2x4's I have doled out. [snicker]

So back to my main point...

The BSs who were operating below the standard that would strongly resist and create obstacles for waywardness WERE in a fog but not necessarily a deliberate or defiant one..nevertheless their perception of reality fell short of ACTUAL reality and the resulting consequence caught up as they are so likely to do.

SC...

I wondered if you had intentions of answering my questions...Also, how is it not possible for you to choose to love your husband now??? This is a man that has forgiven you TWO AFFAIRS...Can't you see how huge that is?

Mrs. W

I think it is all just a bunch of CRAP that does nothing but hurt the BS and always make them wonder.

Talk about huge fog speak. I received a call yesterday from my X-friend who had an affair (4 months) with my husband which ended last January. She is not taking any responsibility or blame for the affair. She is blaming everything on my husband. She spoke of how her life and family has been totally devestated and it is 100% my husbands fault. I told her until she learns to accept responsiblity for the affair she and her family will never heal. I told her that it was 50/50. She didn't have to spread her legs but she chose to do so.

She started screaming at me because I didn't throw my husband out and chose to work on our marriage of 14 years instead.

I went on to tell her about MB and how great this website has been for my husband and I. We just renewed our vows and our relationship is better than ever.

This woman is totally whacked out and I believe still in love with my husband. I told her she needs to move on and get help.

Just out of morbid curiosity, how did your "friend" come to the conclusion that it was ALL your hubby's fault?? Is she accusing him of rape? Wow, it's amazing the lengths some will go to to absolve themselves of any responsibility. I'd say she is a "friend" you are well rid of, but it still must be a painful double betrayal you feel.

She can't accept the fact that my husband wanted to stay with me and work on our marriage. Oh, did I forget to mention she is a raging alcoholic. When she called me she was drunk as a skunk at noon.

Update: She called my husband yesterday (drunk again in the afternoon) after I wrote this message. I got to listen in on the call. She went on about how she needed closure and that she deserved an apology. She stated that they had both agreed (before the affair ended) that they wanted the affair to last forever. She also stated, "Why couldn't you tell me you didn't want to be with me anymore?" She said my husband had set her up because he left his cell phone out for me to see her number on it. "You told me you always would keep your phone next to your heart"

She said to my husband, "you were supposed to be my friend and you hurt me really bad, friends don't do that to each other" My husbands response was "So what about what you did to my wife, you were supposed to be friends, you hurt her really bad" She just kept going on and on about the devestation of her family is all his fault. My husband said "you had a part in that too and you need to accept some responsibility, I have and I have owned up to my mistakes, I love my wife and family and nothing like this will ever happen again. If it makes you feel better to blame everything on me, fine. Do you have your closure now? I've got to go"

Of course you know she's never going to remember any of the conversation. I could tell in her voice that she is still in love with my husband and she just can't let it go. Now I'm afriad of some type of "fatal attraction".

My husband and I both agreed if she contacts again, he will tell her that we will get a restraining order out on her. God only knows what she is capable of in her drunken stuper.