Mr. BH,

Two can deny reality.

Meaning you can deny ever having said the above about agreeing to the divorce. Just don't follow through as though you never said it. Sit on the paperwork, if any. Then, if pushed, say you need to hire and run it by your own attorney. You talk marriage...attorney's speak divorce.

I am presuming you two don't have children.

In that event...in short order I'd be changing the locks on the marital home...so as to keep OM out of my house whether I'm in town or not and then going to Plan B.

Both YOU and MIL should Plan B her.

In short order = maybe a week or two more of Plan A and to get your situation, your plan B letter, your timing figured out.

It should be highly effective if BOTH you and MIL do it at the same time. You both have been meeting many of her needs and she should crumble if you both simultaneously leave her with only OM. He CAN'T meet all her needs.

Amazingly...when you don't speak or see her...the lying stops.

Mr. Wondering

p.s. - her access to money should be cut off as well.

Well the only thing worse than makinga stupid promise is keeping it.

I agree with MrW too - lock her out.

Thansk so much for the replies. She called and said she wanted to talk this weekend, I just said OK and left it at that/

Called my MIL and she is ready to do the Plan B and will be printing out some sample letters for me also. I didn't want it to come to this since she is an only child and MIL has always been close, they talk several time a day. MIL said she isn't worried since this person is not her daughter and no matter what happens she made her bed and has to lie in it. MIL said that when she helped light the unity candle that she took it seriously and her D did not.

I will see what the weekend brings, but this is really hard and I know I can do this, but sometimes it feels like only person trying to save this marriage is me.

It really helps to have this place to come to for support and I promised MIL if I needed to yell and vent I would call her and not my WS.

Good idea! Or come on here and yell to us. We will understand. I agree that you should not sign those divorce papers.

Another thing to consider if you think you can do this without beating him up, is to confront the OM and ask him what his intentions are with your wife. Ask him, very calmly to explain himself. See, most OM are cowards and this shakes them up. It will also give him a chance to put a name to a face. No doubt she has been demonizing you, so it will help for him to see you are a real, normal man.

My D calls me this morning which is after the blow up with her H last night. I am at a lose as to how to even speak to this person. She told me that I didn't love her and that she is done with her M and I should just accept it. I asked her if she was still in contact with the OM and she says yes. I told her that she could not heal and forgive herself until she stopped.

She is not going to stop and she told me that she in fact did love her H but couldn't be married to him for the rest of her life. She then started crying about how he has been her best friend for 5 years. I said well having your H be your best friend was in fact a good thing.

I also told her that marriage was like that race she ran and when she wanted to quit, she didn't she kept going and her M was gonna be like that. She says she feels so bad about her H and I said don't be he will infact be fine when he is over this and can move on, you are in fact in denial and will have the hardest time recovery because you will wake up and realize all you have thrown away and it will be to late.

I just ended the coversation with that I did love her but did not approve of what she was doing and I could not continue this way so that we will not talk for quite some time.

Please help?, I am sick to my stomach and feel my SIL's pain, he is trying so hard but you all know with the talk WS have that it is hard. She once again wants him to sign papers and do it now. He said he will not.

Thanks

How long has this been going on. Your daughter is a classic cake-eater. If your SIL has been at this for several months now, I would advise that he go to plan B. That would include changing the locks, cutting off all financial ties (including insurance, cell phone, etc.), writing a plan B letter, and having NC with your DD. I think your DD NEEDS her H to stay friends with her, and that him cutting off all contact with her will make her crumble and cut off contact w/ OM.

In the plan B letter your SIL should have the following conditions:
1) NC w/ OM for life.
2) Complete honesty and transparency (access to email, cell phone, accounting for time, etc.).
3) Moving back into the marital home.
4) Marriage coaching with a pro-marriage counselor.

I find that your DD is a classic fence-sitting cake-eater, and only plan B will get her off the fence. Your SIL needs to make it very clear that he will never contact your DD again unless she agrees to the PBL conditions. The line that made my WW think was when I told her that she was "dead to me."

MIL,

Your influence here is key.

I know in the back of your mind you can't even begin to comprehend losing your daughter for life. I don't ever think that will be the case. Someday...no matter how this washes out you and she WILL reconcile. Affairs ALL end and this OM is a piece of crap so you can bank on it. Even if SIL and DD divorce...there will be a reconciliation with you someday (perhaps after a much deserved apology/repentence despite the divorce to SIL).

That being said...don't let DD knows this. You see...WS's bank upon the BELIEF that one day everyone else will come to realize it was for the best. They just presume everyone will become alright with their actions. When you go to Plan B she must be disabused of that notion.

Your Plan B must be firm and it will be the hardest thing you've ever done in your life...but, more than even SIL...it should have a substantial effect. People can lose their spouse...it's done all the time and people seem to recover; however, losing your mother too, not so much. Especially considering she's lost her father already I just don't see how any OM could withstand that sacrifice and the resulting quid pro quo of such loss.

You see...she'll try to fake it for a bit and OM will try to tell her "we don't need them" but he'll be gravely mistaken. A single OM with a "girlfriend" crying incessantly for hours at end and just plain miserable all the time is NOT PARADISE. It will wear on him until it's just not worth it.

With both you and SIL Plan B'ing her...I don't give the affair a chance. Hopefully...it will end soon enough for SIL to still be around but with your assistance and support I have great hope.

IMO...the sooner you to come together on a Plan B the more love that will remain in SIL's love bank for the forthcoming recovery process.

Mr. Wondering

This has only been going on for 6 weeks. My SIL and D use to do everything together and when she was so busy for a week to spend any time with H he started snooping and found out about the OM.

She will spend time with the OM and then call H to spend time with him. She has told both of us that even if it doesn't work with the OM she still wants to D. She does say that she loves her H and when she thought that he had someone at the house she came over and threw a fit. It was the neighbor who was talking to H about racing.

I have started Plan B today and am trying to get SIL to go to Plan B, but he is very worried about no contact since he feels he LB big time when the OM was at the martial home.

He has cut off all money and even makes her pay her share of the martial home.

I just want you all to know what a god send you are in this terrible tradey and thank you all for your prayers and support.

YMD,

When I threatened to Plan B my daughter, I told her the things that were in the Plan B letter. I said that I would not be able to talk to her for "awhile", in order to preserve my love for her, because the choices she was making and the things she was doing were making it too difficult for me to talk to her without being angry. And that that anger was slowly eating away at my love for her, and I never wanted for my love to disintegrate - so the only way I could see to preserve my love, and hold on to our relationship was to not speak or contact her for awhile. That any emergency contact, or business contact would have to be through her dad or sister, but our conversations, talks, and time spent together and outings would no longer take place - because the things that made her "happy" were things that destroyed my heart - and I could not rectify them. And I did not know how long it would take me to do that.

She fell silent.

She asked if I still loved her at all.

I said I did, that of course I did.

She said she didn't understand - and I restated.

She said she didn't want me to stop talking to her. That she didn't think my decision was "fair", and that love was supposed to be "unconditional".

And so I said,

"Love IS unconditional. RELATIONSHIPS, however, ARE conditional. And the condition of our relationship right now is that I cannot deal with the choices you are making, and I need some time to decide what to do with it. And during that time, I cannot talk to you, because it hurts too much, and erodes my love for you. That, right now, is the condition I place, unless you change your mind about your choices in your life."

She didn't know what to say, and cried. She begged, pleaded, and cried some more. Then she told me that she was not "married" to the choice (interesting choice of words, because the issue wasn't infidelity!). That she was more than willing to talk about other ideas, other choices, and other ways to live her life, that would meet me and her dad halfway - and that she really didn't WANT to do what she said she was going to do after all. That what she so adamantly insisted she was going to do

wasn't really what she wanted.

She said it was more about being "grown up"

and doing what she WANTED to do

and not doing what she was TOLD to do

and being HAPPY

and not conforming

and following a fantasy

and feeling "free".


But if it meant costing her "everything" (I guess that meant me!), then

nevermind

She was willing to rethink her position.



So, Plan B works.


Don't be afraid, mom.

You have so much invested in her from your side.

But she also has so much invested in you from hers.

You won't give up on her, let her know that.

Because she will come back. Mine came right away. Yours might take a little longer, but that phone WILL ring.

And your heart will lift, because she knows exactly what's happening.

She just doesn't want to be told what to do right now.

Like, you know, she's like, maybe, 15 again, you know.

It happens.

SB

I have a little different take on a parent doing Plan B. In some cases, it is best NOT to go dark. You may be the only source of trusted wisdom left for your adult child. My husband and I were in that situation not too long ago. We were very disappointed when DIL had a short term EA, and not long afterwards, angry son had an EA of his own. We felt like cutting them both loose during this crap, but instead chose to be here to talk sense into them, and also because the very small grandchildren had no other sane people in their life. They are currently trying to put their marriage back together, and give us much credit for being the safe place they could run to and vent, both as a BS or a WS.
I do see the wisdom of Plan B for a spouse, but since parents don't divorce their children, I'm not sure that Plan B applies.

Now let me make clear, we did NOT in any form or fashion condone the EAs. In fact, we ran the risk of making them angry by "preaching to them" as they say, and in reminding them of the REALITY of what their lives would be like, and the kids' lives would be like, if they didn't straighten up.

I honestly think if we had gone dark on them, they would be divorced now, or still engaged in EAs.

I want to applaud you both for your efforts ... you've both done great considering the circumstances. However, when I first read about WW taking OM into the marital home, I thought that would likely be the dealbreaker for your SIL even if WW started to peak out from the fog.

You once described SIL, as a "good ole country boy" or something like that, and as one myself, that type personality doesn't take well to having their face rubbed in it. Maybe he's different, &/or other circumstances will allow him to get past that most troubling aspect, but I'm afraid that may wind up being the "last straw" for your SIL.

Unless he can get some other type of "satisfaction" from the OM, some humiliations are just too much to get past, and the fact that this particular OM is such a loser (30 years old, unemployed, 4 DUI's, lives at home, etc.) only adds to the humiliation your SIL is feeling.

Well, I called the OM's father again today and just let him know how much time my D has been spending with her H and how we all had a wonderful time this weekend and once again asked him to man up and tell his son to quit running around town with a married women. Told him to quit letting them hang out in his home and that my daughter is on all kinds of medication and she can't think straight and please keep his son at home. That I would never accept him and that my D uncles want to find him and do some bodily harm.

Well thank for all the support and letting me vent.

Hopefully this will end soon, I just could not sit by and do nothing knowing she will be ruining her life.

I know no matter what happens that my SIL will be Ok, you see he is a great man and a loyal man and my D is lucky to have found him. She is the one that after the fog clears will be a basket case because it will be to late and she will never recover.


SIL is now concerned that I drove D to him even more and he is going to suffer for this.

I think you did just fine YES....Keep the pressure up as far as I am concerned.

Just curious, but what was the OM's father's response to your statements?

I felt that same thing after my MIL got involved fighting for my marriage on my behalf (as my wife pointed out above my MIL single-handedly got OM to break off the affair with my wife).

It's not the case...they may be appear to be consoling each other and more determined than ever but that is just a show put on by the both of them. Right now...it's likely they are both individually cracking...however, neither are certain enough YET to know so they continue down their adulterous path desperately trying to keep the other from knowing they are having second thoughts. You can't get "hit" of addictive adulterous "love" if you demonstrate any hesitation...so they don't. Doesn't make the cracks in the foundation go away....they are still there AND GROWING BY THE MINUTE>

They may be clutching in chaos...which is not nearly as fun, exciting or romantic as frollicking in affair secrecy.

You see...affairs THRIVE in secrecy. Adultery is not real. OM IS no comparison to SIL. It's obvious but if everyone just leaves WW alone she can continue to deny it. Reality is the antithesis of a secretive love affair. The more light shone on the adulterers the better.

Good luck...to both of you.

Mr. Wondering

I forgot this point I wanted to make.

SIL indicated he was afraid he'd "suffer for this".

One thing that helped me is I seemingly distanced myself from my MIL. My wife had no idea...for quite some time that MIL and I collaborated to some extent in breaking up the affair. I didn't indicate that MIL and I were speaking regularly and I was relying heavily upon her support.

I think you two would be wise to do the same. MIL's Plan B should seemingly be unrelated to SIL's Plan B and neither one done at the other one's prompting.

If and when this situation gets to recovery...be aware...foggy thinking still rules the day. The rationalizations and justifications that went into making these horrible choices will not go away overnight. If WW "feels", no matter how unrealistic such feeling is, that her husband tried to take her mother away from her she is likely to be resentful of quite some time against him. This only makes recovery harder.

Thus...MIL must be careful to support SIL but doing it in a way which conveys this is HER BOUNDARIES and HER CHOICE. It's less to SUPPORT SIL and more PARENTAL. Also...for the time being and for quite some time into recovery MIL must continually reinforce that SIL had nothing to do with her choices and Plan B....maybe even giving the impressiion that he told her NOT to do it as though he was protecting his wife from losing her mother.

Hope that makes sense.

In early recovery it was very easy for me to support my wife in withdrawal after OM dumped her because she had no idea that MIL and I had anything to do with it. I became her soft place to land and resquare her mind.

Mr. Wondering

He said that he will do what he can. I told him about her spending the weekend with her H and then his sons calls her, and he should be the man and quit running around with a married women. I said he is living in your home and you are allowing this to go on. Please be a man yourself and just say no she is not welcome in our home. Your son is not welcome in my home now or ever.

I told him that my D is on 3 different types of pills, and seeing a therapist and his son needs to back off.

He said I will do what I can. I said if you can't so anything then I will have to call his mother, he wanted to know how I had gotten his number, I told him from his sons criminal recored.

Me too! As parent you aren't going to implement Plan B because you don't love her, it is because you do!



She is all over the place isn't she? Wonder who she will cry to when you aren't there to listen? I'd bet the OM doesn't "do it" for her!

This affair is not going to take long to implode if she doesn't have you or SIL's shoulder to cry and waffle on!

I like how you told the OM's father how you got his phone number! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> Keep the pressure on!

She's an only child? Well so am I. No reason she is any more special than those with siblings. Being an only child doesn't get you a "special" break.

As hard as this seems to you right now, you ARE BOTH doing a GOOD JOB! It is a matter of time!

YMD,

I commend you and your SIL. My mother use to tell us "I will always love you but I don't have to like you." when she was mad at us, particularly my sisters. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I think that is the situation you find yourself in: loving her, but not liking who she is right now.

I agree with Mr. W. You and SIL should talk and coordinate actions, but from your D's point of view appear to be acting separately.

As for SIL's fear that you or he might push D toward OM, fear not. She is already with OM, he has lost her. It is that simple. The data is clear, she is with OM, she wants divorced papers signed. SIL has NOTHING to fear now.

The only hope is for the affair to end and it most likely will. Plan A should be for a few months, but if SIL is having a hard time avoiding LB's, then it is time for plan B. Further, he shouldn't be too worried about yelling at her for having OM at THEIR house. That is a very clear boundary for most people, and D/W needs to know that.

She is definitely eating cake, and she is definitely dilusional if she thinks she has much of a chance to reconnect with her H AFTER the divorce. Most people don't find people capable of lying, cheating, and rubbing their noses in it, as candidates for friendship. Her H will not either IF she succeeds in getting him to sign.

When he signs, he will hurt, he will wonder what if, he will second guess himself, but he will also being walking away. She seems to think he is not going anywhere when he signs these papers.

She won't see any of this now, in the fog of the affair. She will later IF she were to go with OM, or simply divorces her H and eventually leaves OM.

YMD you and your SIL are really going through all of this for her, more than you are for your own benefit. Once SIL decides he has given enough this will be over, your D hopefully will figure things out before then.

Must go, tell SIL to hang in there and remember you can love her and not like her at the same time.

God Bless,

JL