"D was on my front proch just balling her eyes out, saying how much she loved the OM and she can't live without him and how could I as a mother do this to her. Please call him and tell him you were lying so he will take me back."

I know this must be very difficult for you. But as others have said, this is the equivalent of a crack addict pitifully begging for you to give them back their crack pipe. If there were even the teeniest doubt in your mind that this is an addiction you're battling, this should make it crystal clear to you how hooked she is. She basically is saying that her next fix is more important to her than ANYTHING and EVERYONE else! Clearly she is not thinking clearly. Still I know it must be really tough for you to not try to comfort her at this time.

BTW, my WH said similar things during his last adultery. He sometimes begged, sometimes demanded, that I contact OW (and the police) and tell them liess that would have made me look like a lying lunatic just so he could continue the adultery. He was absolutely desparate. It's withdrawal when they are craving that next fix but not getting it.

Hopefully, your daughter will only have to go through the withdrawal once. If she can stop all contact with the OM for at least 3 weeks the worst part of the withdrawal will be over.

It is an addiction; and it is most certainly NOT 'love'.
Mature, sane, moral love is a choice; addiction is more of a compulsion based on base desires - not a loving choice.

Deep down she KNOWS that what she is doing is repulsive. That's part of why she so desparately wants you to somehow sanction it for her - to make it OK.

She also is seriously suffering under the common delusion that she will somehow manage to keep her husband in her life even if she divorces him. She realizes that she does want and need him too. But because she's an addict, she isn't thinking clearly enough to realize that what she's expecting of him is impossible. IMHO there should be rehab programs we could send loved ones to when they are in the grip of adultery addiction. Because the key is getting them to stay away from that next fix long enough for some clear thinking to surface and to get through withdrawal. (I think that's one of the benefits of the way some states are requiring waiting periods for divorce - it gives some time for the adultery/addiction to end.)

When I was reading about how your daughter was sobbing and asking you to lie to the OM just so she could keep getting her fixes, I couldn't help picturing one of my own daughters in her place. How incredibly sad and scary to see how strongly and quickly adultery addiction can take hold. My prayers are with you, your SIL, and your precious daughter. I pray that she will be able to see that her need for this OM is not natural and healthy - not 'love'.

Well is called H while OM was with her to tell H it was over and he needed to move on with his life. SIL is devasted he can't take anymore right now.

He just told me he isn't sure what he is going to do but I did get him to just calm down and think about what he really wants to do for a couple of days/

Please keep us in your prayers.

Well as predicted, nothing changed and he is no worse off than he was 2 days ago. The situation is unchanged. Stay the course.

Well, I am at work and the OM's Father called me saying that this is all my D's fault and she is stalking his son. He will take a very firm stand with his son about this whole thing because he is afraid it will turn ugly. He did say though that he would not turn his son away if he wanted to continue this affair. I said then it will never end because you are helping.

My D was with the OM last night in a hotel and my SIL found them, had to go get him at 2:00AM so he wouldn't do anything stupid. I don't know if he is done yet or not but was able to get him home and to bed.

I am surely trying to stay strong but I think what I did was pushed her to the OM, she only use to see him 2 times a week and now I think they will be together everyday. She has disowned me so I can't have any influence with her any more.

She also did a Plan B and NC to her H on the behalf of the OM.

Where to from here, don't know but this thing has been going on for 6 weeks how could they really turely know or love each other.

Thanks

YMD, don't worry, the affair will just crumble faster now that they are not sneaking around and it is exposed to the light of day. So much conflict has been injected that this is doomed to failure. He can't "trust" her and she will have unrealistic expectations of him because of what she has sacrificed. The bar has risen on the OM because she has given up her family for him and he won't be able to live up to those expectations. He is a selfish, small man of low character who will never be able to compensate. She is backed into a corner with her OM and his family who has no respect for her.

I think your SIL should sit back and wait a couple of weeks, being as nice and attractive as possible when she contacts him. Then he should go into Plan B.

And yes, she does "love" him but it is a love that is based on fraud and deceit and conflict so it will turn on her, just as a love of CRACK turns on the crack user. Her affair brings out the absolute WORST in her, not the best, so it won't last long.


Sadly, most parents are stupid enough to believe that it is "unconditional love" to enable their child. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> Lucky for your DD, you don't!

I know your SIL is hurting right now, but tell him that the affair is on the ropes right now. She only told your SIL that it is over in front of OM, so he wouldn't end it with her. It was a ploy to allow her to get her fix. She has no interest of maintaining NC with your SIL, and you will find out she will break this promise to OM rather quickly.

Jim is right, she will be contacting your SIL. The OM won't be able to meet all of her needs so it won't be long until she sees this and contacts him.

Your daughter's behavior is very typical:

claiming she is 'in love' with the OP

demanding to keep both the OP and the BS in her life

addicted to the fixes that being with the OP gives

expecting everyone to condone the adultery and to pretend it has no negative affect on them so she can (try to) avoid guilt

pretending those who expose and oppose the adultery are just driving her farther away and further into the OP's arms

I agree with the advice that your SIL needs to try to appear as calm and unaffected as possible. If he can't do so while staying in Plan A then he should take steps to get his Plan B ready to put in place.

I also agree that your daughter and the OM spending a LOT more time together will NOT be a positive thing for their adultery. They are reacting to the fact that they are not going to get their way by acting like rebellious teenagers. Only one of them has a parent who loves her enough to say 'no', while the other is obviously parented by wimps who probably have never told their son 'no' (hence he's still a little boy living at home and who in his parents' eyes can do no wrong - I predict he will eventually develop a drug addiction and strip his parents of all their belongings to sell off to buy his drugs - and they'll let him). They think they are punishing you and your SIL by spending so much time together now. They're infected with a juvenile "we'll show them" attitude. They're probably pretending they're Romeo and Juliet... But what they don't realize is that the MORE time they spend together right now the more quickly the adultery will end. They are both in selfish taker mode - neither is really interested in the sort of selfless giving that real love takes. He will gloat a little at having 'won' her away from her husband and he will enjoy the sex... BUT he will not care enough about your daughter to listen much to her talk about her missing her mother and husband. She will want and need him to start providing more emotional support, to help her feel safe and sane... but he was and still is only looking for some cheap thrills.

I think the fact that they went to a motel may mean that he doesn't want his parents to know he and she have increased their time together. Again, in spite of what his parents said to you, most likely they are putting some pressure on their son to end it. Of course, being that he's such a big baby they are choosing to believe that he is some sort of victim of a stalking female now... If/when your daughter catches on to that accusation she is going to want him to defend her to his parents. It's very doubtful he will. A logical response to his failing to do so would be to see him clearly for the spineless loser he is... BUT because your daughter won't be thinking clearly until she shakes clear of her addiction she will probably be angry at you and her husband for destroying the myth that this OM 'loves' her. She will tell you that 'everything was perfect' until you exposed the adultery and that 'you ruined everything'. Just more fog-babble. It will be a while after the fog clears before she will be able to see that it was all just fantasy that couldn't stand the light of day.

IMHO I don't know if I could Plan B my own daughter (have considered it a time or two - different circumstances). I do know that it is right for you to tell your daughter that you love her BUT that you can't condone the adultery. And I do know that the less cake-eating she gets away with and the less support she has for choosing to continue the adultery, the more likely she is to end the adultery.

I will warn you though that in my case when my WH had to end an adultery in order to keep me in his life he always interpreted that as being me 'forcing' him to give up the OW du jour AND 'forcing' him to stay married to me! He not only failed to take responsibility for his adulteries but also never took responsibility for his choice to end the adultery and stay with me. In his mind he really believed he was entitled to BOTH me and the OW. So by my exposing each adultery and telling him I would not just shut-up and put-up, and NO I would NOT continue to be his 'friend', he blamed me for not letting him get what he wanted. In my case this was a bitterness my WH never overcame and never 'forgave' me for... But IMHO my situation is different because my XWH was a serial adulterer. Most likely your daughter will someday thank you and her husband for standing up to her suggestion that she be allowed to keep her adultery partner AND her husband in her life. But for a while she will complain about people trying to 'control' her (um when they don't agree to the demeaning roles she tries to relegate them into to serve her immoral and selfish desires).

Is there anyone else you can expose to that your daughter might listen to? Who are the people that she would most certainly NOT want to know that she is committing adultery? I would exploit the fact that her OM is such an obvious loser - expose to people that she would be embarrassed to present him to.

Also, as long as your SIL is still in Plan A he should plan some fun events with family and friends, invite his wife (but of course OM is excluded). The she is free to choose to spend time with her husband, family and friends instead of with OM. Sure she'll complain that she should be allowed to bring her OM; in her addicted mind she not only will fail to see how wrong and hurtful that expectation is but will think YOU and her husband are being 'mean' by saying he's not invited! It is usually a very effective tactic to extend some social invitations to the wayward spouse at this point: If she accepts the invitation OM will not like it and they will fight over it; if she declines the invitation she will see what she's missing by choosing to be with OM.

OK, one more thing and then I promise I'm done:

Picture your daughter as she was when she was 2 years old. And she's throwing a temper tantrum for something she REALLY WANTS RIGHT NOW! Only the thing she wants is very wrong and very harmful to her. The only loving reaction is to tell her "NO". She will sob and may even say "I hate you", but you know you can't give in. (BTW, even IF the thing she wanted this badly was not a bad thing her extreme need for it would still signal an addictive problem which should be addressed and objected to.)

All those DUI's...

Is OM still on probation???

Maybe expose to his probation officer or the judge.

If he has any hearings scheduled you may show up.

************

Someday soon it's likely that DD will attempt to contact you and corner you to MAKE you speak to her. She will attempt to use the same old "unconditional love" thing and she will probably say SHE is going to disown you again. We have a thing on MB called Reverse Fog Babble. I think a good example of such for you would be:

DD: "I'm disowning you...you are no longer my mother"

You: "I'm your parent...only a parent can disown a child, children can't disown a parent...that makes no sense"

DD: "Who says"

You: "I say...I'm the parent"

DD: "uh...that makes no sense"

You: "yes it does...parents always set the rules...right?"

DD: "I can disown you if I want"

You: "But I'll always be your mom...how can you disown that"


You just keep them going in the circular silly argument and don't allow the words she is using in a deliberate attempt to hurt and manipulate you to get through. She's NOT going to disown you...she's going to be happy and proud of the you for SAVING her from the biggest mistake of her life one day.

SIL...stay strong. 6 week affairs never last. Focus on YOUR integrity. Put yourself 10 years into the future and imagine looking back at how you handled yourself in this difficult situation. No yelling and screaming...no begging or crying. Be her husband...try to protect her and fight for her. Do your best and whatever happens YOU will make it.

Mr. Wondering

Thanks all you are my strenght to get through this. Well D shows up at 6:00AM at SIL doorstep and said that the OM dumped her but then they sorta worked it all out. She has promised to not have any contact with her H, and H said well if that is what you want and need from me then we should have no contact. She says no thats not it I don't care about that it is almost over with him, and is this door still open for me to come home. H says for now I am here for you, but it is up to you.

She says I want to come home someday and I think it will be soon. He kissed her forhead and sent her off to work with call me if you need to talk.

SIL is playing the good guy and I am of course the bad guy. I explained to SIL that he might need to go to Plan B and maybe we should prepard for it.

He is going to see what happens this weekend and then make a decision.

Keep the prayers coming and thanks again.

Oooohhhh I LOVE Mr. W's idea regarding exposure to OM's probation officer and/or the judge...Get to work on that YMD...ANY extra exposure on OM's side of the fence right now would be the final nail in the coffin of this affair...Work on making your daughter FAR too much trouble for him...

Mrs. W

"She also said that everyone thinks I am patheic and should love her uncondinally."


This is nearly a quote from my own daughter.

I told her that love may be unconditional

but relationships ARE CONDITIONAL.


So I could love her, and protect my love for her - by keeping my distance. I told her it was like my fence, only the fence was at the very edge of my space; and I was at the other edge of my space. She couldn't come through the fence. And other people were tending the gate.

I was still there, in her life, but I wasn't available to her. So my love for her remained safe.


I think your SIL handled things well. And he should hang in there just a few weeks more. Her OM is selfish and weak. This "love" of his is more lust than anything, and it is growing less simple by the day. Sorry to say, but your D is getting too heavy for this guy to carry, and he doesn't want to do the work for what he's getting. She says it's almost over - she doesn't know how right she is.

SIL, if he has another conversation with her, should make sure she knows the door will not ALWAYS be open. She's just checked in with him that she has a nice soft place to land. She shouldn't be counting on him to still be waiting till she decides she is done with OM.

Well, last night D and OM broke up again. She ended up going to SIL and staying the night in the Martial Home. SIL couldn't take the sobbing and crying and her pleading with him to sign the Disolution Papers. SIL clamly told her that she needed some time so he would go and spend the night at his friends house.

I guess the OM said you wouldn't see her until after she was divorced. SIL did not talk about that he just kept changing the subject.

D and OM are running out of places to carry on the affair. Maybe his parents are putting on the pressure, but then again this has happened before. This thing has only been going on for 6 weeks.

Hopefully this will come to a conculsion soon and we can start picking up the pieces. I know this is all my SIL wants. SIL does have the conditions on rebuilding and also is ready for Plan B if needed.

i had a mother in law like you.
we no longer talk, we haven't in a year or two. not because of dislike i do not think, but because things have moved on.

she did all she could to help in my marriage. when i told her of all the affairs her son was having and all that was going on, she and her daughter flew here from alaska to talk to my now ex. and there were times before that she and my fil came to talk to him a few years earlier. she was on my side for probably 2-3 years of the ****** i went through. then my fil told her he didn't want her involved anymore. that she could listen to me if i needed to talk and she could do the same for my ex, but he said we needed to work things out on our own. i really wish he would not have done that. i don't think that was right. because after that point, i didn't really have her anymore.

my ex never stopped his behaviors and we not together today. i hung on as long as i could. i did all i could. and he wasn't stopping so i had to end it and move on.

i am not saying that will happen here i am just saying that i was thankful that, while it lasted, i had my mil trying to help me save my marriage.

don't ever stop doing what you are doing.

mlhb

Well need some help here, D called but of course I didn't answer the phone. She left a message on the recorded saying the she if fine, and her and the OM broke up and she is taking a few days to think about things. Says that her H is doing fine, and he is great but maybe it is seeing her being such a basket case. D said call me I want to ask you some things about what the OM said and what the OM's dad said.

I haven't called I think she needs to get her head cleared to think so that when we do talk about this I don't hear any more fog talk.

SIL said when he got home today she had left him a note, saying that she is missed up right now and when things get better she will be able to talk to him all about it.

Where to now folks?

YMD,

Well, the issue is one of context. A plan B is usually in place as long as the wayward spouse is running around with the other person. If your D has broken up with OM, then technically you can speak with her, if that was your condition for not talking with her.

It is your call, it is your plan B.

I think you need to warn SIL to remain in his house and have her leave if he cannot take her whinning and such. I would also warn you that it is possible that your SIL is going to tire of all this pretty soon and dump the W.

She is withdrawing deposits from his heart at a great rate, and she may well push this over the edge. In fact, right now I would bet a great deal of money that YOU are the person he respects and loves more than he does his own W. You have done an amazing job in this.

My recommendation is that if she goes back to OM again, and I suspect she will, that H go to plan B immediately. If he does not the damage may be so great that the marriage will end no matter what your D wants.

Those are my thoughts on the matter.

God Bless,

JL

YMD, JL is right, it is CRITICAL that your SIL DOES NOT LEAVE HIS home again!! He should NEVER DO THAT. We have had men locked out of their homes who had to get court orders to get back in for just spending a few nights away.


He needs to put a stop to this right now and tell her he will not be signing anything EVER. If she wants to divorce him she can go to court and get a divorce all by herself. He should make this very clear to her and not sign anything no matter what she says.

He needs to understand that everything she says right now is said under the intoxicating influence of an addictive affair. As soon as the OM is gone and she sobers up, this will ALL CHANGE. This is why he should not heed her words or do anything that will cause permanent change. Her state of mind is temporary, a divorce is permanent.

Also agree with JL that Plan B is close on the horizon. Her affair is crumbling from all the conflict and it is good that your son is there to make some deposits, but she will soon drain all of his love for her. But for the next few days, at least, your SIL can help himself immensely by being there while her affair implodes and look like the good guy. Your D, no doubt, is lovebusting the OM, and vice versa, which will contribute to its quick death. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

THAT was the primary purpose of her call. She needs information. She's still hopeful she can find a way to turn it around with OM and make him see her. If she only knew about the conversation with OM's father she might find a crack to get back through.

Give her nothing. If you tell her what was actually said...then she'll try to use that...if you elaborate thinking that telling her OM's father was great and felt exactly as you do and forbids their relationship...she'll STILL use that. She just needs details to call OM to "discuss" and try to manipulate with.

Here is a link to an article. It's from another website which is good since it won't attract DD/WW to this website. I strongly suggest printing it out two copies...one at your house and one for SIL to leave laying around his house. Don't hand it to her to read. Waywards don't take well to being educated. Instead leave it laying out where she will find it and read it out of curiousity to see what "garbage" you are reading.

Here's the link --->>>> 31 REASONS TO STOP AN AFFAIR

Good luck...and stay strong. I think you should step back and stay quiet for now. Allow her to RELY on SIL for support and the meeting of her emotional needs. Though...if SIL goes out of town again for work anytime soon DD/WW should be staying with you as a way to demonstrate to her husband she's not out contacting OM. It will be your daughter's obligation to rebuild trust...NOT SIL's responsibility to just hand it to her.

Mr. Wondering