Good foryour SiL.

You're right; your D DOESN'T get it. She doesn't get that words must be followed by actions. She thought she could tell her H that she would end contact with the OM and send the ND letter...blah, blah, blah, while still chasing the OM.

Your D has the letter. She can read it again to find out what to do. Your SiL probably shouldn't break Plan B again until she can PROVE that she is ALREADY doing the work.

Still in Plan B even though D has tried breaking it. She has been texting her H and yesterday she got a written warning at her job about her performance and missing work.

I am hoping something will wake this child up. The OM fianlly told her to not keep calling, texting or any contact with him, he is done and doesn't want to hear from her again. Don't know how true this is but what she is saying to me.

I asked her if all of this was worth it and told her she needed to commit to her marriage 100% and she said but what if I don't love my H. I said you have been with him all of last week and you said you had a great time and he was becomming the man you wanted. She said yes but I didn't love him.

SIL has scheduled an appt with Steve so we will see what advice he has.

Thanks

Excellent!

~ Marsh

This is where you say, "Of course you don't love him. You were cheating on him. It's up to you to rebuild your love for him. It can be done. All you need to do is call Steve Harley."

Just wanted to bump this back up again and say that I agree with Jim.

Your daughter will not feel in love with her betrayed husband again until she:

stops all contact with the OM

gets through withdrawal

allows her betrayed husband to make deposits into her love bank

AND makes some deposits into her husband's love bank

THEN the feelings will follow.

I also agree she should talk to Steve Harley (and stop going to that anti-marriage cousnelor she's been seeing).

NC has been only a week. The OM told D he was not interested in anything having to do with her. He is done and does not want to speak to her again. Called her a WH--e. Of course D is still mooning for the OM. SIL is still in Plan B.

D insist she does not love H and their marriage would never work. Her and I have been going to bible study and church. She is at least going to check into a christiam marriage couselor. D wants nothing to do with this site.

SIL has a phone conference with I think someone named Jennifer for this week, we will see what advice.

I have tried to tell her that she could love H and she would have to just try to get her marriage back. She said if she did that she would just be using him. I know that she is in withdrawal becuase she cries at a drop of a hat. I just wonder if she is still in contact.

Thanks

Hope everyone had a happy thanksgiving. I spent my with my D and spoke to SIL last night. He had his phone couseling session and he feels really pretty good after. SIL was advised to slowly break plan B when D reaches out to him, since his W has moved out and Plan A was not enough and not enough love deposits he nees to slowly build this up. SIL was advised to speak to D and no realantship talk just general stuff and then see how that goes and maybe a short date like breakfast or just spending some time together on something they both enjoy.

D did write her H a letter letting him know she found a christian marriage counselor and if he was willing to go to let her know and they could start. He was told this was a good idea and could be a way to break plan B and not look to weak, but the main goal is saving the marriage if that is in fact what he wants. I guess he has a whole list of stuff and he needs to get his head around it all, but he is very excited and has another cousleing session for next week.

In speaking to my D, she says things like the OM's arms fit her so much better than her H. She has in fact broken contact as early as this week, but Om called her H and told him, but said he is not contacting and that SIL needed to let his W go because she is turning into a stalker and is crazy. I know about the contact and the OM stated he did not want to see D but would be there if she ever needed to talk. He then sent a text message to her yesterday and stated she was to crazy for him and stop contacting him. She tried to call serveral times and he would not asnwer.

Thanks all.

YMD,

I have several thoughts. One it is good your SIL is counseling with Jennifer. She is good. Second, you need to warn him that counseling with your D will NOT go well for a simple reason. She is still in the affair with OM. OM is contacting her, and OM is contacting her H, and she is contacting OM. Given all of this one can hardly say that NC is in place. Counseling while the affair is going on is a waste of time and money.

Yet, perhaps it will help your SIL deposit in the love bank. I suspect however, it may hasten his willingness to leave her. Unless he realizes that counseling will be of no use until she really is in no contact, he will be so disappointed that he will finally call it quits.

Your D is still acting in a very "entitled" way, and shows NO respect for your SIL. My bet this is going to wear thin real soon especially if it continues in counseling as well.

Please give him a heads up about this.

God Bless,

JL

Thansk for your reply. I did in fact speak to my SIL about this and he understands. D and I spent yesterday together and went shopping for christmas decorations since this is her favorite time of year. She bought stuff for the martial home, she said that her and SIL will be shopping for a christmas tree this week and she wants this stuff for the house. I did not pry into the situation and she said that they will be having christmas at their house just like last year. She did say that it was over with the OM and when she feels like contact she will call me or her H.

I have not spoken to SIL so don't know where he stand in this whole thing, but when we went to the check out to pay she pulled a note out of her purse and it said your are beautiful and I miss you, it was from her H. Then later while at lunch she said if her and her H every have kids she doesn't want any Brat dolls for her little girls.

When we went out to the car she reached into her coat pocket and pulled out another note from her H and it said hope you are having a good day and I miss you. She said that was not important to her and she knows she loves him just not like the OM and maybe she is just trying to hard.

YMD,

I realize that her comments about OM right now are fog talk, but if they continue she really should be honest with him. He doesn't need a W that views him as "second" choice.

It seems he is trying but perhaps you might talk to him about the notes. I suspect right now they irate her more than anything. Just thoughts, but you have a unique position to observe and provide your SIL insights most here never get to have.

No matter how much you may want the marriage to work, you will need to be honest with him if in time she really is not getting on board but simply settling for him. He needs to know that, so that he can make his own decisions. He seems to have done an excellent job of hanging in there so far, and I must say I am impressed, please pass that on to him as well.

God Bless,

JL

H had his 2nd couseling session with Jennifer. So far Jennifer thinks things are progressing as they should. H and D are actually spending quailty time toghter. While they were together Wednesday night the OM called D and she did not take the call and her and H discussed the fact. She did then text the OM the next day. Her couselor has told her that the OM is not meeting her needs that is why she keeps going back to H.

I spoke to D and she is saying she doesn't think she loves her H but is willing to try. Said she prayed to god last night and he told her to be patient that it will come back. She was upset this morning because H was mad since she isn't loving him like she should. Later H called and they discussed what happened and he isn't mad anymore so D is happier. D says that she thinks the only way to save this marriage is through a marriage couselor but doesn't think this marriage can be saved. She said they will be going to marriage couseling however to save this marriage.

She is still re-writing marriage history and says H can only keep up the good behavior for a month. When they are discussing problems she considers this fighting and H considers it communication.

I hope this is still all fog and I keep telling SIL this but he just wants her to love him. She sometimes will say I love you and then back off from this. I do see that when H backs off she is the one who pursues him.

Thanks

I don't know how much of Plan A Jennifer has shared with BH, but during Plan A the BS cannot expect the WS to meet his ENs. It's all about meeting the WS's ENs and showing her through action that the changes he's making are permanent. BH should not be getting mad at WW for not 'loving him like she should.' That isn't going to help the situation.

And yes, the difference in opinion about fighting/communication is normal, IMO. I would talk with my WW in a very calm manner and avoid all the LBs and she would still qualify the discussions we had as fights or arguments.

Tell your DD if she wants to give the M a chance, she needs to cut off all contact w/ OM FOR LIFE! Any contact with OM is a dagger to the heart of her BS. Explain this to her until she gets it.

Well couseling session with SIL and Jennifer are going good. I am now in plan B with my D since she is turning so hateful and spiteful. She claims no contact with OM for a week now and every time we talk she throws out such hateful words to me and disrepectful to. She has been staying at her apartment and not with H, but calls him all the time.

She tells me that H is her best friend and she doesn't love him like a wife should, and she doesn't like to have sex with him and doesn't want him to touch her. We went to church last night and she was hugging him and holding his hand.

They will be starting marriage couseling on Monday, but she says that is where the marriage will end. She says the only thing that will hurt her anymore now is if her H finds someone else. She is wearing her wedding rings again. dont know what that means.

It seems that no matter how innocent something is she can bring up and re write the marriage. H feels like he can't do anything right, but Jennifer has told him not to do a Plan B yet. She is not helping with this marriage at all, anytime her H needs something or help with something at the martial home she is not willing.

I don't know anymore where her head is at and am wondering if she has any clue what is happening to her and her marriage. Her H says he is willing to hang on for a while longer but he also doesn't think she is coming back to the marriage. I have told my D to tell her H that she doesn't love him and that she doesn't want touched or to have sex with him and she says no marriage is hard sometimes and this is just hard right now. Then later she wants him to end the marriage so she will be forced to move on.

I am so stressed because of all the drama and not knowing what I should be doing or not doing that I haven't been sleeping or eating.

Thanks

If your DD has no contact w/ OM and your SIL works a good plan A, your DD's feelings of love for her H will come back. Right now she is in withdrawal, so her emotions are up and down. Maintaining NC w/ OM is the key because if they remain in contact your DD will stay in a state of perpetual withdrawal.

"I am so stressed because of all the drama and not knowing what I should be doing or not doing that I haven't been sleeping or eating."

I know it may seem impossible, but try to pamper yourself and detach right now. I know you must be worried about your daugter... But there's not much you can do right now to influence her anyway. And don't forget that the things she says are just fog-talk - don't take any of it seriously. Her feud is really with herself as it is with any addict. Eventually she will figure out that the longer goes without contact with the OM, the better she will feel. Unfortunately, each time she contacts him she will have to start withdrawal all over again. I remember hearing that the worst part of withdrawal lasts about 3 weeks. But even then if contact is made again, it's back to square one. Some people simply can't be told this and instead have to go through several withdrawals instead of just one. (I remember trying to tell my WXH he could spare himself a lot of suffering if he'd just stick to no contact and get it over with... instead he drug it out...)

I can't remember if you've said whether or not your daughter is taking an anti-depessant. Has she talked to her physician about her depression? I think I remember you saying she was having trouble at work too because of all this? It might help her get through withdrawal if she was prescribed an anti-depressent.

Just thought I would post an update and some words for those just starting this process. SIL and D are in recovery and going to Marriage Couseling with a Christian Couselor. Of course there are hills to climb and valleys to go through but I am seeing more of my D coming back and she is more loving towards her H than ever. Had a wonderful Christmas the first time both families have been together since this happened. I sometimes don't want to talk about how good it is going cause you know jinxing and all that.

I want to thank all of you on this board for the help and understanding through this. For those of you who are going through this please listen to the advice of these fine people they do know what they are talking about. My SIL and I followed the advice, no matter how hard it was to do
and these people were right on target as to what would happen. I know you think your situation is different but in fact it is not, cheating is cheating no matter the characters or the roles each plays. The fog talk is actually true, and I can't tell you how many times SIL and I heard fogtalk from my D and it was so funny because I read all the same words here.

If you read my story you know that we also went to ****** and back, but please reach out to the people on this board they will help pull you out and help you stand up and actually save your marriage. My D and her H are very early in this recovery process but from how my D was in the beginning to how she is now is totally a different person. I know with Gods help and the help from these people we were able to keep our emotions in check and know that there is light at the end of the tunnel even if you can't see it.

Please if you do nothing else, read and read more and remember these folks have walked the walk and know what they are doing and will help you through this minefield without loosing your self respect or your love for yourself which is so important. Even if you think it is hopeless please just read and let these people help you.

Thanks all and I will continue to be reading and now be prepared for the long road to recover and also hoping to once again be proud of the child I raised who is my daughter.

I have that t-shirt too! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

YMD, I posted this on another thread the other day. Your D and SIL are very fortunate you are here!

Quote:

many people are helped here who NEVER post. So when you post here, you ought to think about the hundreds of people you're going to touch. Are you going to help them? Or discourage them?



Had to quote you K. Very important point.

Plus those of us who read more than they write!

Oh, I'd like to add, my S and DIL had a baby girl Wednesday, December 19th. They are at 2-1/2 years recovered, thank goodness or I'd never had a chance to ever know Miss Claire, all 7lbs. 12oz. of her!

They've never posted here, just had a MB'er for M/MIL! [quote]

That's wonderful news. Just keep vigilant about NC and realize that there will be bumps in the road.