Hi RIF,

Thanks!

I know you are right. I tend to forget that I do have power. I have power over myself and then there's the abstract power that I don't really think about or I forget about it when I'm down.

The power of true love, the power of our wonderful memories and even the bad memories. I know H thinks about this when he has moments of clarity.

He will see things all of the time that will make him think about me. And hear things. He knows that I don't want to be "just friends" with him. It's marriage or nothing.

I think when I am getting the Plan B letter ready and setting things into motion that I will do a Plan B letter for myself and hang it on the fridge for positive reinforcement. A list of good traits so I will see it and read it and remain positive.

If I can handle it I will help out on the boards whenever I can. I think I will even find an organization where I can do volunteer work and help others. I have always wanted to do this and now I'll have lots more of myself to give.

I don't know if H remembers this...maybe he does but not at this point. I was working outside the home and I had a coworker who was horribly down on her luck.

She didn't have money for Christmas with her three kids and husband. They were barely making rent. Her oldest daughter had just given birth at the ripe old age of 13.

H and I talked about it and enlisted the aid of family members to gather Christmas presents for this family. We all wrapped them up and then delivered them to the family. We put the presents on the porch...rang the bell and ran!!
(They didn't have a chimney... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> )

So we did the "Secret Santa" thing and it was SO great!! That was truly one of our best Christmases ever.

Wow. I haven't thought about that in a long time.

Anyway I also must remember that OW has a LOT of pressure on her end. Her family is totally disgusted by her actions. Then they look at OWH and see how frail he is getting from the pressure of the affair and OW's vacillating.

I might be wrong but I feel that she will be the one that caves first. It doesn't matter either way. The affair is mortally wounded and it will bleed out and die.

I don't know when but it will.

That's going to feel good no matter how things turn out for me and H.

And thanks to my sweetly smiling lawyer, I know that I would be able to have a relationship with someone else someday. My heart is not dead and cold. This is good to know because for a while I thought I'd never be attracted to the opposite sex again. At least not for a relationship.

Well, I hope you get some good rest, RIF. I suspect you'll be heading that way soon enough.

BTW-my mom and I were talking last night and we would like to send a care package to your unit, if this is okay. I guess we need a list of needed supplies and contact info. I know you guys and gals probably get really homesick over there.

I got homesick just traveling to another state before so I can only imagine how it must be for ya'll!!

Hey Charlotte!

I think putting up your Plan-B letter on the refrigerator is a great idea!

When you get your first draft ready, put it out here on the boards so the "experts" can take a look at it... You'll get some great advice and can really fine tune it so it will be ready when you need it!

Thanks so much for the kind offer to send us a care package! I don't want to put my address up here so I'll give you my e-mail address and will send it to you...

I really don't need a thing as our Sunday School class is sending over at least 2-3 boxes a month... I usually take all of the stuff over to the MWR building and share it with the other soldiers...

My e-mail address is ***removed after Charlotte received it***
Semper Fi,

RIF

Thanks Justuss!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Thank you RIF,

I will post it when I have a good rough draft.

I have your email now so you can remove it whenever you want.

I'll send you some air freshener for the gym to help you deal with that musky Italian odor! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

C22:

What's your plan?

Your not in plan A.

You WANT to go to Plan B.

And you HAVE filed for Plan D.

So.

What do you think your Husband sees?

C22 trying to SAVE this M?

OR:

C22 running away even FASTER than he is from the M?

Get a PLAN and stick with it.

You have never made yourself a plausible alternative during Plan A.

And Plan B eliminates those mimimal efforts and replaces them with darkness.

Yea, Plan B makes it easier on you. Because you no longer have to deal with the WH.

And since I have asked you about your prior realationship with your H. And asked you to review the past, and how your M got to the point that it was. And all I got for an answer to paraphrase was: "I was sick, and he took up with a slut"

You married your Husband, who has been divorced already, 14.5 years ago.

And the M was perfect until THE THING arrived in March/April of this year.

Except when you got sick.

And that was all WH needed to find someone else.

If that's the case, then let him go.

Because, all he needed was a gate out of the M. You were perfect, and he was just waiting for the oppurtunity. This way, you can go be perfect with someone else.

I shouldn't call you perfect. I should just state, it's all your WH's fault that you are here.

Therefore, it takes the focus off of YOU and your actions during the 14 years leading up to this point.

And I'm not blaming the victim here, your WH made a CHOICE to cheat on you. But what was going on in your M before he hit that tipping point?

Your WH COULD have made a CHOICE to find this website, and state that he had feeling for someone else, and he didn't like feeling this way and HOW could he find his way back to his W and fix things?

Because then he would have listed all these great things in his marriage, that went away. Things like:

(And this is where C22 fills in HER thoughts about what SHE thinks her H may have found GREAT.)

I would like you to explore and come up with 10, but I will settle for three.

And while you are at it, you can create YOUR list. Of the things that were great in the beginning, and then went away.

Lets try to get to what went wrong in your M.

And then see if we address those things, that we could present a proper PLAN A to your H.

And then see if we could have a REAL effect on your WH.

But, that would be a plan, wouldn't it?

And if your really interested in saving it, Call the Harleys. THEY can give you a plan.

And NO! I'm not picking on you. NOBODY on this thread has seriously asked you to examine the past of your M and how you got to this point. And I find that rather surprising. But, no matter. I think that you need to do this, to clearly set your goals for the future into place.

LG

Well LG,

I have discussed this at length with Melody.

All of the ups and downs and ins and outs.

I have been doing Plan A. I can't do this anymore and H is not talking to me right now so I don't have much choice, do I?

I Plan A'ed the best I could under the circumstances. H has my letter. He's been told numerous times by me that I don't want this divorce.

What else can I do? If you think I've been doing everything wrong then I guess I'd better just forget it right now and throw in the towel.

I've been told I was doing the right things and making the right moves.

What am I doing wrong?

Is this all an illusion?

Melody has been guiding me along this path and I am not getting this negative crap from her that I am from you.

So I don't know what to do now.

Okay. So I suck, then.

I wasn't there for my husband even though I tried to be when I was sick.

I wasn't there enough so he found someone else.

Fine. I give up. I don't delay the D and follow-through with it as quickly as possible.

I don't protect myself anymore. He's slagging around town with her so why can't I?

I'll just go out and find a rebound romance right now to make me feel better about myself.

I'll have a big bonfire and burn all of our memories...even our wedding photos. Everything.

I sell everything I can and run away to Europe, which was something I contemplated in the beginning because I didn't think I would even be able to live in the United States because Anywhere, USA was too close to H.

Is this better? Yes, I'm upset. If you are trying to push me over the edge because you think my situation is hopeless then you are doing a great job.

Charlotte, just a question: was that an example of the approach you might have taken with your H when he was arguing with you or irritated over something you might have said or done?

I'm not trying to push you further over that edge <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />. I'm just trying to find out how you've previously dealt with your H in a conflict situation, that's all.

Morning C22 (nice nickname).

I know you have Melody as your guru and you have the Boardes as further support. But don't throw lg's questions out with the bathwater. Either your H is a shallow pond with no character, in which case all it took was your illness for him to wander, or there are things to consider in the relationship that in hindsight can appear clearer.

Like, did you see selfishness in your H's behavior? Was there a habit either of you had of not checking with the other before making plans?

Just examples.

I know that when I got the "ILYBNILWY" speech on D day i had to look at all that I took for granted, and all my selfishness. I also had to look at the signs through the years that my H truly did not want to make the walk down the aisle, but I pushed him when he faltered. I had to look at how I encouraged his friendship with the OW in such a stupid, Flower Child way.

Of course, the topper was that I did not expose the affair. I waited so long that I lost any willingness to fight for our marriage. You, C22, have not made THAT fatal error. I am drawn to your thread because I see a success story in the making, and it helps me to see you doing the right thing.

Take time to read all the posts (except for those by Trolls) and consider whether anything in them can be useful. It there isn't anything, put your energy into what you have been, which has and is having positive results.

I believe your H is tantruming right now. Bring the OW with him to court, driving together, is part of it. It will pass.

Happy day after (urp)

Charlotte, you are doing the right thing, so don't worry. Lousygolfer, Plan A is only supposed to last around 3 weeks and she has been doing an excellent Plan A for longer than that. She knows exactly what problems were present in the marriage that led to this, her illness and his DRUG ADDICTION. Because her H plundered their bank account, she was forced to file for D.

So, don't worry about her, she is doing the right thing. As soon as he gets his stuff, she is going into a very dark Plan B as we had discussed previously. But be assured, she is doing an outstanding job of mananging a very bad situation. Just stick to the plan, Charlotte, you are doing great. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I wish you guys wouldn't post so fast. I composed mine, then 3 more appeared before I could hit the click button. Please, I can't think that fast!

I don't think what LG posted was meant to push you over the edge. I think there were valid questions...

I think that if you do want to become a better person in this whole process, it's important to answer some of those questions. I know it's difficult, but it will have to be addressed at some point or another in time. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I really think it would help you if you had a phone consultation with one of the Harley's. I understand you have a great coach behind you, but it would be some additional arsenal for you. I know, that even though I had a lot of help here, my phone consultations with Jennifer were as important.

You are doing very well C22, but I'm wondering if a plan B might be too soon right now. I'm wondering if you might need to work it a bit longer... just another opinion.

Ok, y'all first off, she has spent so much money defending herself in court that she likely can't afford counseling. And since she has a sound plan in place, there is not much reason to do so AT THIS POINT. Her H is a practicing drug addict, which means that Plan A needs to very, very limited. We have done certain things, such as giving him a "plan A letter," so to speak in order to soften the blow of the D action and to leave a firmer imprint on his drug addled mind. Even so, she has been in a good solid Plan A for well over 3 weeks and there is no need to go any further. It is time for her to get into Plan B.

Where she can really benefit from the counsel of Steve HArley is when they reconcile. Steve can facilitate the reconciliation and recovery. But right now she has a good, solid plan in place and needs to stick with that plan.

Hey Charlotte!

You listen to Melody! You're doing great!

It's getting late over here so I'll check back with you tomorrow... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

I'll give you a "smelly Italian guys in skimpy shorts report" after I go to the gym tomorrow morning, OK??? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Semper Fi,

RIF

I've kept up with this whole situation from the start, but I don't think I've posted until now.

FWIW, I happen to agree with the recent posters that I've felt for some time, while reading this thread, that there were likely serious issues within this M pre-A, and that this whole thing was being handled very one-sided.

LG makes an excellent point, that if ALL that it took was for C22 to get ill for this A to occur, then your WH must be a very shallow person, which doesn't hold much truth for me based on what I've read so far. IMHO, C22 could still benefit from an "honest" Plan A that works on WH's perceived issues that she brought into the relationship pre-A, and in NO WAY am I condoning WH's A ... he owns that portion by himself.

Also, I didn't see WH and OW arriving together as that big of a deal. If I remember correctly, they are basically living together now (at least both are seperated from their spouses, so I assume they're living together), and C22 DID subpoena the OW, so it would seem logical (in thier wayward minds) that they would commute together.

I also see HUGE red flags waving from C22's infatuation with her attorney, although we're not privy to enough of her personal history/issues to know exactly where those red flags are connected.

This just seems like one of those cases where we may be succesful in winning the battle (breaking up the A), while losing the war (restoring a successful marriage).

C22, there is no need to get "wrapped around the axle" over these observations. We really don't know enough about the state of the M pre-A to offer more concrete appraisals, but I do think the questions are worth your consideration.

LG, what was going in her marriage before the affair, besides her illness, was his DRUG ADDICTION. Her marriage, from all indications, was pretty solid until the wheels came off the cart. He has been arrested TWICE in the last 12 months for driving while intoxicated/impaired. Drug addicts and alcoholics have a much greater history of affairs because they have no boundaries.

Hi C22 & RIF,

This is for both of you so I will start of with my response to RIF 1st. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

RIF - I think you've got the 'secret weapon' out there. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Hear me out..... (then laff <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> )..... those 'shorts' (anyone who works up a sweat for that matter..... could provide that kind of ammo - LOL!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" /> ) and it s/b shot into enemy territory. I am sure there are a lot of 'short ammo' lying around. Wonder how long it would to for that to 'overcome' the enemy? If that doesn't work, the back up plan w/b to send in either moms or bunch of us BS'..... wait, for plan C we could send all of us at a specific time of the month.....do that for a few months and that s/b enough to wear out any terrorists. LOL!!! That's the key.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> (.... and I am not a violent person - <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> )

Ok C22, you do know you w/b going through stages. To get ready for plan B as Mel suggests is a good idea. Here are mine: Pray for a clear mind, calm heart and lots of patience. Get your support group ready for action, secure your finances in order and reassure your family of your love, support and commitment. Do NOT commit anything to the WS. Learn to distinguish between a WS and your real H. If he is also dealing with other addictions, address those also. You might have to sound like a broken record but repeating the same requirements (can alter the words a bit) will show you can not be deflected from your stance.

Expect the WS to test your patience, endurance and will. Strengthen those qualities.

You are working towards a goal of getting your mind and heart in sync.

You will know when u r ready for it.

You can read my sig line about the stages of grieving. Know that you are not alone in this quest. Many of us have been there, done that and survived. Welcome to the survivors club. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

take care,
L.

Folks, Plan A is not supposed to even be utilized in the case of drug or alcohol addiction, it is entirely ineffective because an addict does not respond in the same way a normal person would. Her version of Plan A in this situation has been limited to giving him 2 letters, that he could read in lucid, sober moments telling him that she a) did not want a divorce, b) was sorry for the state of the marriage and c) would be willing to forgive him and work on the marriage. Any more than that would be inappropriate with an addict. [Dr. Harley has spoken about this]

And btw, I DO know her personal history and have had many conversations with Charlotte and feel good about her plan.

I never realized that the drug addiction was such a chronic problem. I know those situations have to be handled differently than normal As.

Hi MIM,

No. Believe it or not we discussed problems as adults when they came up.

Hard to believe it was ever like that when I think about all of the things that have happened since the A.

We were always open to each other and when something was going on outside of our M that affected us and either one of us was frustrated...it was recognized for what it was, blowing off steam.

We always stuck together. Never did I ever go behind his back and say bad things about him to my family or anyone. Our marriage was OUR marriage.

I could say anything to him. We didn't have secrets. Until the A.

There was always great mutual respect between us.

Until the A.

And then? I had to read about how he should have never married me...that he was just settling. We didn't even marry until we had been engaged for nearly a year.

He forgot all about that *spark* that passed between us when we met. Like an electrical jolt. And with him, it was the first time I ever had the knowlege that he was the man I would marry forever. I had heard others speak of this before but I never really had it. Until H.

So I knew it was right.

I never got the ILYBINILWY speech. The only thing I ever heard was how we don't have anything in common anymore. All of the things that WS's usually say were told to OW, not me. But I got to read all about it in chat logs.

So since he told her and not me what does that mean? That he was going to just disappear one day and I'd never see him again? Maybe he'd have left me a note?

I don't know. I don't want to think about all of that right now. I haven't eaten yet.

I was there as much as I could be when I was sick. I didn't cook our meals everyday and other household duties went undone. H is a man who likes to do laundry so he was the one that was basically taking care of that and our meals most of the time.

Not very exciting. So I can understand wanting some.

Me? I knew we were in a slump but I was confident we would pull out of it because we were married and everything is not roses all of the time.

We even talked about MC not long before the A started.

So I don't know what else I could change about myself if I could go back in time. Except for putting my foot down about going out to a movie with a friend from work because I couldn't go.

And maybe that would not have made any difference either.

mbm, the reason it is different is because an addict reacts entirely differently to Plan A than a sober mind. An addict only uses Plan A overtures as an opportunity to EXPLOIT and undermine. Nor can a drug addled mind participate in a program of recovery until they are dried out. Dr. Harley won't even counsel a couple where one is addicted until the addiction is arrested, because marital recovery is impossible.

So, in Charlotte's case, we know her H is a voracious reader and that he may have some lucid moments, so she wrote him a couple of love letters that he will have with him. We already know that he read every word of these letters.

There is nothing more she can do at this point, except go dark and remove herself from his triangle. In her Plan B letter, one of the conditions she will have to put forth will be abstinence from drugs. That will be a first step before they can even think about marital recovery.