Hello Everyone,

My wife had a ONS with a guy on a girls trip back two years ago. After returning home, she kept in touch and fought hard to keep the relationship. She said all the common wayward talk, rewrote history, and the whole "Maybe I don't love you anymore". On top of that, she wanted an open relationship, wanted to come and go as she pleases, wanted to go on trips with this new friend, and basically said she just wanted him as a boy toy and that it was all in fun and zero committment by either.

Crazy, she wanted to give him all the benefits of a partner(sex, conversation, care, intimacy, companionship, etc) without him having to deal with the day-to-day things like work, kids, bills, etc).

She stopped in November after a Marriage Retreat and began to do the things for recovery. She found God, found new friends, very accountable for her time, etc. She did have a difficult time being honest about the ONS details. In fact, she finally(6 months ago) seems to be completely honest about the ONS details. Yes, that did hinder recovery big time because of her lack of honesty.

So, the questions, has anyone had to deal with a woman that became wayward so quickly without the immediate remorse. She said she was drunk and would not have considered behaving the way she did prior but after the act, she felt zero remorse and even tried to continue it. She actually was fighting to keep him and did not care how it hurt me. I felt and still feel that I was not valuable in her life then. She says that I am now extremely valuable and that she was in the fog and all that, but, I just can not imagine treating her like that. I can see myself making a mistake because we are all human BUT I love her and would do anything to protect her and show great care. If I made the mistake and was caught, I would immediately fight to keep her not the OW. That is just how I feel. Anybody else had to deal with a WS that started a physical affair abruptly and let it develop into a longer term emotional and physical affair.

We talked today and my wife said that maybe I am not the type of person that can get over a betrayal. And yes, I do feel that way because of the treatment after the mistake(ONS). She gave in to temptation under the influence but what about the following days. Those were all conscious choices and those choices are more difficult to forgive. Again, I feel if I did not fight, that she would have just let me walk away and destroy our family as we know it.

HF

My understanding is that a ONS is being with someone you don't know on the same day/night that you meet them and then never seeing them again.

This was no ONS. My FWH did the same thing, met OW and slept with her the same night. Then continued the relationship.


That may be. But the point is where do you go now? Do you want to restore your marriage? You know you CAN have a good marriage again?

Welcome to MB. You'll find lots of good advice and help here.

My first question is has she ended all contact with her OM? Do you snoop to ensure she is not speakng to any OM?

HF, I am not real clear about why you call this a "ONS," because this is just a garden variety affair that we see here every day. But that is neither here nor there.

I think the reason you are having problems recovering is because the crime has been compounded in your case. What I mean by is that is that your W is a serial cheater who has had multiple affairs. Add to that the fact that she lied to you about the details for quite some time until a few short months ago. So, she has added LYING to the pile of abuse. She had secrets with her OM about which you were not privy.

So, your real day 1 of recovery was last July because honesty is the start of recovery. As long as there are still lies between you, recovery is impossible as you have seen with your own eyes.

Therefore there is much TO recover from. Some do not ever get over the resentment from such abuse. I can't explain why she feels no remorse. There could be several causes, one of which is continued contact with an affair partner. Another may be because she does not believe adultery is wrong. She may be one of these women who feel that her feelings entitle her. She may not know right from wrong. On the other hand, she is only a few short months from being sincerely honest and it will take a while for her moral compass to straighten out. The longer they are wayward, the longer it takes to allow the conscience to operate again.

The most important component of all this is contact. Has she ended contact with her OM?

Yes, I know it is really not a ONS but I don't know what to call it when you sleep with the person the first night. I do think there is a difference in that sex on the first night can't be about filling up the love bank as there is not enough time. I am comparing to a person that develops a relationship over time that becomes an emotional and/or physical affair. Those are what I consider to be the garden variety.

In the case of my wife, she states that the sex just happened on that night and that she choose to continue simply because it "did happen". Meaning, she could not believe she would ever do anything like that so that must mean the man is special and needed to find out why/how? She thought he must be a soulmate or it was meant to be/etc?

She says she feels a great deal of remorse now but yes, I am stuck on how could she not feel bad that she just had sexual contact with a complete stranger hours after having a discussion of how great her marriage was. Yes, I few hours to going to the bar that night, she states that she was talking to a girlfriend and telling her how great her marraige was and how we had really become close over the course of 8 years. She said that our marriage was as good as it had ever been. She says she really meant that and that is more of the reason of why she says she can not explain what she did or why. Again, she says because she was happy with the marriage but she still allowed this to happen that this man or situation was just meant to happen or that he was very special.

1. has she ended contact with the OM [s]

2. does she know right from wrong? Does she believe adultery is wrong?

Yes, she ended contact December of 2005,

Yes, she knows right from wrong. She states that adultery is very wrong. What's weird is that she talked down on it our entire relationship(pre and post affair) and she thought people who do it were very wrong. Just recently, she acted as if she was just appalled that a single guy was talking to a married woman inappropriately. She made a comment like, "What is he thinking, she is married? Did he really think he had a chance?". I said and I probably shouldn't have, "How can you say that? Being married does not mean much nowadays. The single man walked up to you and you were married and he got everything he desired? What, you have higher expectations for other married people than you do for yourself" Yes, she was mad the rest of the night.

Hopefull, did you say she was drunk when she did this? If so, there is your answer, IMO. She apparently cannot handle booze so the answer would be for her to a) stay out of bars and b) not drink. That is pretty strange that a non-alcoholic would be a black out drunk; do you think she is an alcoholic?

She was drunk that night BUT.... she was not drunk following that. She talked by phone numerous times and when he came into town the following month, she says she saw him for about 10 minutes. He was with his fioncee and really could not get away much longer.

right, I understand that. I was trying to answer your question about how she could go to bed upon first meeting the OM. Was that the question?

Oh. Yes, I understand how she went to bed. It is really the next day or really the next 180 days that I have an even bigger problem with. Again, humans especially drunk humans make mistakes. She should never have put herself in that situation. However, she did. But the way she choose to get herself out is what seems crazy!!! You made a mistake that could cost you your family. I would run far away from that, jump on a plane, and pray that I never see or hear from that woman again. She exchanges numbers and starts to place and receive secretive calls. It is almost like she wanted to get caught. Crazy!!!!

No, she is not an alcoholic. She drinks on occasion but yes, when she drinks, she seems to not know when to stop.

Hopefull, has she stopped drinking then? She sounds like an alcoholic to me. An alcoholic is not defined by how OFTEN they drink, but by what happens when they DO. She clearly loses control entirely and does not stop. That is the definition of an alcoholic.

How often does she drink? And has she stopped in view of the problems she has with drinking?

And i do understand your question now. When someone does something wrong and intends on continuing, they have to rationalize their wrongdoing instead of stopping the behavior. It is much easier to change one's perspective than it is to change one's behavior. So, she didn't feel remorse because she was justifying the behavior in her own mind.

You might find this article helpful: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5048a_qa.html

Thanks. "When someone does something wrong and intends on continuing, they have to rationalize their wrongdoing instead of stopping the behavior." I guess I am stuck on the "intends on continuing" part. She always says I am her BEST FRIEND. Why would a person intend on doing something that betrays their BEST FRIEND. I know, people when they start an affair(I guess even if it was last night) go into the fog and do crazy stuff. I am trying to make logic out of a completely illogical situation. That is just in my personality type(Finance/Accounting Degree)

Yes, she still drinks but she says it is only with me. She has not been out of sight in a social situation since this has occured so I don't know if she can do it or not.

Well, frankly, you were not all that valuable in her life at that time. Here's a notion that took a long time for me to sink in. I think it came from Shirlee Glass(RIP) in the book "NOT JUST FRIENDS".

Your W"s decision to be unfaithful, came after a long time of reflection. It did NOT just happen overnight. Her thoughts and the fantasy of being unfaithful, took a long time of refelction on her part. The real decision to be unfaithfull took place LONG before she actually did so. She was simply placing herself in a position to do so, long before it actually happened.

And to blame it on being drunk, as my W did, is a copout. Drunkeness, merely becomes a facilitator of what you've already decide to do, but serves as a wonderful excuse, to exonerate yourself. Total deniabilty, in the face of ulterior motives.


The decision of your WW to continue this type of thinking, is absolute proof of her waywardnes, prior to the act itself. Unfortunately, I am in the same boat.

There is a great deal of work to be done here. Your WW needs to do a lot of very heavy lifting for your M to survive.

I do wish you all success.

All Blessings,
Jerry

Yes, that is the sad part. I loved my wife unconditionally(although I had never considered an affiar) and all that I really asked from her was to be faithful. Many of my emotional needs were not met prior to HER affair but I was willing to sacrifice and hope/pray that they would be met later in life(after kids/after the hustle/climbing the later work years/etc). Now, I am unsure of really what to do. Needs are still not being met and I am not as willing to accept that from a spouse that betrayed me. I know, a new woman may do the same and I hope that my wife has learned a lesson.

Anyway, it is sad that the specialness of intimacy/sexual relationship has been destroyed and is gone forever. During the act, I used to feel special.... now many times during, I think about how she probably gave herself in a similiar way to a complete stranger like it was no big deal - which means it is really nothing special. Or does it mean, she never thought I was all that special? she would do that for anyone. I don't know. I just know that feelings of sex being special and something deep that only we share is not there.

I actually feel more selfish about SF now than before. Now, I find myself not really caring if she is not in the mood or tired or whatever. She told me she really did not want to with the OM(she was drunk, tired, sleepy) but she felt pressured and did it because he had been nice to her for the past couple of hours. Well, I have been "nice" for the last like decade so I feel should get it whenever if we compare being "nice". These post affairs thoughts are crazy. I feel they don't make a lot of sense but then again they do.

[quote] [Yes, that is the sad part. I loved my wife unconditionally(although I had never considered an affiar) and all that I really asked from her was to be faithful.[quote]


Well Hope_Full, that's prettymuch all any of us asked. But in spite of promises and vows before herds of people, it didn't turn out that way. I know what you feel, BTDT ahead of you. I was M'd for 32 years and had two grown and wonderful sons, before I experiernced the same devastation as you. I only say this to let you know your are NOT ALONE!

Quite sure that doesn't help very much, but life is always going to find a way to kick you in the teeth when you least expect it.Thus, the Q becomes, what will you and WW do now? Can you get over this? that's a loaded Q because I'm sure you can't answer that right now.

Stick around. We can chat if you feel the need to.

All Blessings,
Jerry

WOW ... way too many similarities to my own situation. The only REAL difference is that I discovered my WW's behavior only 7 days after she returned from her "girls only" trip. If I hadn't nipped it that quickly, then I would no doubt be in your EXACT same shoes. How do they fall so quickly and so completely to a stranger (and an obviously low quality stranger at that)???

In addition to the "How could she?" issue, my other issue right now is the humiliation. When I experienced my D-Day on July 25th ... I was so proud of the way I immediately sent a very strong NC email to the OM the very next morning followed by a 3 way phone call by me, the OM and my WW. I made it very clear that I loved my W, but I would not share her and if he tried to EVER contact her again, I'd blow up his whole world by delivering EVERYTHING to his W.

My WW was so remorseful and begging to be allowed to stay and work on our marriage, etc. ... THEN I find out a month later that she texted him on D-Day +2 and opened a secret email account and sent an email on D-Day +5 to attempt "closure".

NOW I feel so humiliated because while I thought I had taken a strong stand and put OM in his place ... my WW sends him texts and emails leaving the door open, which just humiliates the ****** out of me, because OM now obviously thinks that WW still wants him and is just playing me until this blows over.

I want so bad to take back control of this situation and would love to break NC myself to have all of the evidence of the A delivered to OMW.

Other than these two issues, our R seems to be progressing well and my now FWW is very remorseful and completely embarrassed by her actions during that horrible two week period, but the issues for the BS still exist and the humiliation is getting worse and I am seriously considering taking some type of action to reclaim my self-respect that WW gave back to the POS OM.

Sorry, I don't have any answers either, but was offering some empathy from someone experiencing a very similar situation to your own.

Good Luck as you search for your own answers.

Are you saying this hasn't been done so already?

If so, this is a major mistake. Inform OMW immediatly. Whom are you protecting, certainly not your M and your W if you continue this.

all blessings,
Jerry

I think this is a really good point. I've often pondered starting a thread about when does the A really start. Is it really when they cross they line or start setting the stage to allow themselves to cross the line when the oppourtunity arises.

I would be leery of any appearence of recovery until she addresses these underlying issues. Chalking it up to just a one time mistake or being drunk doesn't address this.

Yes, that is the problem. How do you really address the underlying issues? We have been through 3 counselors and a pastor and she comes up with the following and counselors somehow support her on this:

1) Stress - She was feeling stressed because she was working hard at our business. We had just expanded our business and both of us were putting in lots of hours. This was a business that we bought but she was the hands-on person for 5 years and then I left my job to assist. She expected to just delegate all responsibilities to me. This is not what she had agreed to. I had the business background and she had a difficult time organizing, putting in processes, hiring/firing, executive type things. We talked about her doing the observing and such and I was to run the "Business" part of it. This is what I did but we had two different styles. I delegated and could manage without being a micro-manager. She wanted complete control and wanted to know why I did not have my hands on everything. She got frustrated and probably lost respect. She was stressed and states she was looking for a way out or another man to run to.
2. Just Weak Around Men - She states she has always been weak around men. She says she only has had sex with a handful of men in her life but the first time was always prior to when she really wanted to. She always gave in to pressure because she wanted to be liked.
3. Natural Affair Pattern - All the hurtful stuff and actions that were said during the affair period and after discovery were just typical fog talk.
4. Likes Attention - She stated that she likes to be desired and wanted. She says she did not always feel this from me.
5. Never really been exposed to single life and she was very naive - She has been in a relationship since she was 14. She always met and started a realtionship right after the last. Most overlapped. She never had experienced in her adult life for a man to "fill her head up" so she could not believe this man like her as much as he acted.
6. Low Self -Esteem. Again. She said a man that she just met had never made her feel as good as he did. She says she heard stuff from me, her husband, but she thought that was because I was her husband. She could not believe a stranger would actually like, admire, and give the compliments that he did. She says that she just believed what he was saying and thought maybe he was meant to be. He even stated in the first few hours of interacting that she felt like his soul-mate and that stuck in her head. He was a single man in his mid 30's who had been out in the world and knew what to say to press a woman's buttons.

7.) Drinking/Flirting - Obvious

So, those are the reasons.

The responses or the "Why Things are Different":

1) She does not have the stress anymore because I took over the business completely. She has total respect because I run the whole show and numbers/money has never been better.
2) Weak Around Men - She says that she knew she was weak but her weakness never had negative results. She ended up married to a man she was "weak" around. Now she sees that her weakness can be a problem and she states she will never put herself in a position of vulnerability.
3) Natural Affair Pattern - The "fog"
4) Likes Attention – She states that she is now completely OK with just attention from me. She states that she does not need attention because she sees why men give attention. She says she know understands that a stranger giving her attention and flirting probably wants sex and is not some soulmate.
5) Never exposed to Single Life - Same as before – She sees what happens to single. This single man moved on with his life and just parties with a new girl. She, her husband and three kids are now left to pick up the pieces of the devastation.
6). Low Self Esteem – She states that she has taken steps to increase her self-esteem. She looks at herself differently and she believes that she is now a child of GOD. She believes that she now has a purpose which is to raise her children and to help others particular marriages not go through what we are going through. She is involved in multiple small group prayer groups with other women.
7) She states she will not drink if she is out somewhere without me.

So, I guess this is supposed to make me feel better. This is all supposed to explain why and explain why she will not repeat this in the future? She states that she was just mentally unstable because of the stress and that she feels she is a completely different person today. Again, it all sounds good. Why don’t I feel better about it?