I do not have a sponsor that I am using, it is on my new to do list. I have been going to meetings and many of the members of my home group know whats been going on, just none of the details.

tst, I would suggest getting to a closed meeting and telling them what has happened and getting a sponsor NOW. They can help keep you accountable......and SOBER.

Have you seen the similarities between alcohol addiction and your affair yet? As in the addictive nature and the fantasy based, destructive, irrational thinking?

Below is my draft of the no contact letter. I still need to add a part to it that I would like your feedback on. When I told OW, that I was returning to my family, she told me she wanted me to return items that she had given me. I am not sure what to do. I was considering FedExing them to her and telling her so in this letter. If I don't mention it, she will probably contact me.

Any thoughts?

OW,

I am reconciled with my wife of 19 years and back home with my family where I always belonged. I am writing you to inform you that we can at no time for any reason whatsoever have any contact with one another.

What kind of items, TST? If they are just sentimental things such as cards, letters or pictures, or personal items such as men's clothing or cologne, etc, just destroy them! You don't owe her an explanation.
If these are items with high monetary value that she could conceivably accuse you of stealing (electronics, cars etc) get a third party to deliver them, would be my suggestion. I would not get caught up in even a conversation with OW regarding these items.

These items are monetary items not sentimental in any way. They are all household items, i.e., vacuum cleaner, small TV, and such.

I would rather ship them with my wife handling the shipment. My wife has agreed to that.

Should I tell her in the NC letter that these items are being shipped to avoid her contacting me about them?

tst, I would suggest just burning the items. The OW has no need of those items, they are rightfully yours to do with what you choose. Sending them back only opens up the door for renewed contact and triggers her feelings.

Secondly, I would work more on that no contact letter to the OW. It really is not enough at all. The letter should be approved by SMB and mailed together.

Your affair was a grievous assault on your wife and a terrible mistake. That needs to be stated in there as a GOOD WILL GESTURE to your wife. The letter should state "how selfish it was to cause such pain to one you love and while marital reconciliation cannot completely repay the offense, it would be the right thing to do." Dr. Harley suggests something along these lines:
[from SAA, pg 58]

OW, I want you to know that out of respect and love for my wife and children, I have come to realize that I must never see or talk to you again. My relationship with you was a cruel indulgence that SMB did not deserve. While I cannot completely repay SMB for the pain I caused her, I will do my best to become the husband she has been missing. I care a great deal for my family and I would not want to do anything to risk their happiness. I will not make any further contact with you and I do not want you to make any contact with me. Please respect my desire to end our relationship.

Sincerely, tst

I agree with Melody. Your NC letter is a bit watered down. You sound like an old dog who got out and is now back in the yard where he belongs.

Also, knowing how some women are, if you send that trash back to her she will save them as momentos of her sleazy affair, which will keep her triggered for years to come. Better to burn any remaining tokens of this such a horrific assault on your family.

I'm in agreement with your thoughts. I just have never done this before and I need the feedback. I am rewriting to mirror your suggestions.

thanks for listening, tst.

tst

I wanted to send a little encouragement your way.

Know that good people can make BAD mistakes. That choice does not have to define you.

You and SMB can get through this. You can have a rewarding, loving M in the future. All is not ruined forever.

Reach for God. Keep SMB close. Hug your kids.

Thanks, I am in a lot of physical pain dealing with all the pain I see I caused my wife and family. I'm shaking uncontrolably through out the nights and cannot sleep at all. I feel like every ounce of my being is completly ripped apart.
I have told my wife I will do whatever it takes. I have written a NC letter, committed to at minimum 15 hours a week together.
I am answering every detailed question she is asking about the OW and there are so many.
Giving her all details of my business, money, and records. I am changing every email account and cell phones, etc. to avoid any contact from OW. I am going to sign over all business and personal assets through a post nupual agreement as she has asked, using her attorney.
I am going to give her complete reign over all passwords that are used in my business and personal areas and share with my I.T. personel everything that has happened, with her present, so they know she is in control.
I offered to give her sole custody of our children in the post nupual agreement.
I told her I would make ammend to all close and extended family and to all our friends that have been hurt by this.
I have agreed to 3 accountablity partners of her choice.
I sincerely will do whatever it takes.
I haved agreed to end any activity that take me away from home, both business or personal.
I will do these things and anything else she asks of me. I am all in!
we have spent 4 full days; 24/7 together, out of town and I am so glad we have. I don't think this much work together could have done otherwise.
I'm not sure that what I'm doing is enough. I watch my wife go somewhere else, she just disappears instantly everytime she hears answers to the detailed questions she asks. She looks so empty and angry that it scares the ****** out of me. She tells me its because she is a different woman and needs to process these things. That its been 6 months of not having these details and that this is part of recovery.

My wife also told me she spiritually divorced me six weeks ago which allowed her the freedom to be with the OM. She told me OM was a chritian man of integrity and would probably have married him. She latter told me his divorce is not yet final. She met him at our churchs' divorce care group and I think he is member of our church.
My wife has said she is commited to this marriage, and I beleive her. We have done so many good things together these past 4 days and I can see many things clearly I've never seen before. I do have hope.
Because I am dealing with all the remorse and pain I caused my wife from my affair. I don't feel I have permission to ask questions about the OM. I feel so scared about this event and it hurts. I feel this event is my fault.
This OM does not change my plans to do whatever she asks of me, I really am willing to do whatever it takes I just need feedback and help to keep me going forward. These waters are so muddy.
Whats normal, what should I expect from all this fallout, for how long, etc.
I do know God was so in their fighting for me and he is breaking the very fibers of my soul to create a new man in me. The process is just physically and emotionally killing me. I have not been able to sleep more than an hour a night the past 5 nights. I cry and shake all night.
I'm sorry if I am rambling. I have so much more I could say but my typing skills suck!
Some thoughts please.
Tell me I'm loser.
Tell me I don't deserve help after all I did.
Tell me something.
Just please talk to me.

"My wife also told me she spiritually divorced me six weeks ago which allowed her the freedom to be with the OM. She told me OM was a chritian man of integrity and would probably have married him. She latter told me his divorce is not yet final. She met him at our churchs' divorce care group and I think he is member of our church."

When your wife posts again, I will point out that there is some foggy thinking going on.

tst,

Right now, sleep is very important for your recovery.

First, take a deep breathe. Then hold it for a few seconds. Now exhale slowly.

Next, ask yourself what it is that you fear the most.

Is it the loss of your wife's love, now that you are committed again?

Or do you think your children have been hurt too deeply?

If so, then it's okay to let the tears flow.

Next, say a prayer. You only need to say a few words, like "Jesus, I trust in you". Say it again, until you begin to believe it.

Then let yourself go to sleep, and get some rest. You will do better the next day. The Lord will help you.

-LE

TST,

I'm truly touched by your willingness to save your M. I just hope that this is not a temporary condition. If I remember correctly, you have been seeing OP for 13 yrs??? This is not going to be an easy R to break. But with everything that you are offering, I believe that it is real.

At any rate, most of us BS's out here would give anything to have our WH's do what you are willing to do.

I believe that if both you and SMB feel the same and are really committed, you can have the most wonderful marriage ever. Call the Harleys. I love Jennifer because she has the plan all laid out for being passionately in love again.
I wish my WH would be as open to it as you are. Go for it and don't let go..... You won't regret it.

Have you read the 31 reasons to end an affair? I suggest you both read this as it really hits the nail on the head. The link is in a post from me last night called "Calling Mr. Wondering."

Oh, and while I don't agree with SMB's decision to get involved in another R, I can understand it. Please try to understand that we BS's have our dignity stripped, our self esteem shattered, and our identities cut in half. We're lost souls sometimes, but some of us are stronger than others. And we are terribly lonely at times too. I think we would all be lying if we said that we hadn't thought about it at times. Jennifer even warned me about it because she knows how vulnerable the BS is. So try to understand how it happened to SMB.

I wish you the best.....

tst, no you aren't a loser. A loser would be continuing to do what you were doing. A loser would not feel grief and remorse for his cruelty to others. A loser does not try to right his wrongs. So, we already have evidence that you are not a loser.

But I think if you continue to beat yourself up in this way, it will impede your path back to recovery. Your family needs an intact husband and father right now. You are a broken man who needs to concentrate on getting fixed so he can be there for his family. I know that you feel bad, and you should feel bad, but please don't allow it to disrupt your mission, ok?

And secondly, you do have a right to know all the details about your W's affair. Yes, you did invite that into your marriage, but she is responsible for that choice. I intend on taking my 2x4 over to her thread over her rationalization that she was "spiritually divorced." <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> That is not even GOOD bullcrap.<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Also, if the OM goes to the same church, y'all are going to have leave that church. But before you do, I would make sure the pastor knows all about the affair so he can have a chat with them both.

It is very obvious why you would feel this way. However, it is not your fault. Just as your A was not her fault. You both made choices, bad ones, but still she owns this decision. Yes, she was very vulnerable, yes she was hurt and in pain, but she was still M. She gave herself permission to cross that line. Don't take that responsibility from her.

You should and I advise strongly that you DO ask the questions NOW that you have about her A. If you let them linger unanswered, a time will come when you will need to know those answers. It will be like a new DDay all over again. It's kind of like what she is experiencing now when you answer her questions. It hurts again. Almost as bad as when we first find out. Right now, the channels are open. You two are communicating. Now is the time to calmly ask the questions. Listen. Thank her for her honesty. It will hurt, but that will ease. Don't wait 6 months when things have gotten better to open up and pick at the scab again. NOW is the time.



Yes this is all new information. She IS processing it. It takes time, lots of time. An average recovery goes anywhere from 2-5 years. I recall doing the exact same thing when given new information. It's normal.

Good people can make bad decisions. They can lose their way, like you did. But you can find your way again. You won't ever forget this pain, it'll help guide you in the future. Your journey of becoming a truly honorable man is just beginning.

But first you have to start taking care of your physical being. If it's a visit to the Dr's for anti depressants(sp) that's needed...go. You have to be able to function to get through these next few weeks. You're going to end up in the hospital soon enough if you don't act to help yourself. Eat something, lie down, CALM down.

This is going to take a long time. You have miles to go and every day you travel an inch. It feels like this sometimes. Know that what you two are experiencing is normal.

You are not a bad man, you made bad choices. Your M can survive these dark days. IMO...I really feel you two will recover with an outstanding M as a result. You both are in my prayers.

tst,

Ditto Mel's post (as usual).

When you speak to the pastor about the divorce group, please mention the lack of oversight with mixed genders. I've never been to one so I don't know if that's typical....but if so, Chailover is right. That is a recipe for disaster.

Secular lonely hearts clubs might embrace mixed genders, but a church should be aware of the inherrent dangers associated with it if it's not administered and supervised properly.

This in no way discounts smb's responsibility for her choices. But the opportunity without accountability of this church group involved paved the way for her (and her OM) to engage in an inevitable option.

In addition to Mel's suggestion that the pastor chat with both of them, the pastor also needs to include this example as a warning to others in that group.

Ace

Michele and I were simulposting but I agree with her, too. We've all been supporting smb for a long time. For me, your thread is sincere and you don't need to worry that your typing sucks.

Keep posting and we will keep talking to/with you.

You inspire many BS's, tst, so do not hold back. I only wish my FWH would have had the courage to post like you are after we found these forums. We are in recovery, but it is taking longer (IMO) because he has no outlet like I do here on MB.

Still praying for both of you.

Ace

PS I take it back, DH has outlets......(a personal mentor) and we are in MC. Both would be good for you, especially with your AA history.

TST..you deserve our support. Welcome back from the dark side. I will tell you that I have come to care about your wife as a person...and I would hate to see you put her through the same stuff you did before.
You seem like you are on a good path. Find a way to take care of yourself...mentally and physically. make sure there is NC for both your OW and your wife's OM. There needs to be NC for life from this point forward.
Have the inegrity to follwo though with a polygraph. If you are like the vast amjority of other WS's you are still hanging on to lies, thinking you are doing her a favor. DON'T. Get it all out now.

I wish you luck and pray you too can find a happy life.

Now...get that kitchen done and stop being so controlling..it is a shameful display of weakness to need to control those around you.

MEDC