BA - SMB's letter asks no such thing. Where do you read that?

tst, I agree with the others about your church.

Unfortunately, leaving your church may just be one of the consequences that you guys may have to face. Maybe you could ask your pastor about it? This gets into a whole nother issue though. Is OM a member? One out (through your pastor) may be that if OM is confronted by the leadership and is not repentant, leadership can ask him to leave.

My dad was a pastor and we had a similiar scenario come up at our church when I was a teenager.

I don't see this either. Where is she asking for more contact? Maybe I'm just daft and can't read.

[/quote]

I don't see this either. Where is she asking for more contact? Maybe I'm just daft and can't read. [/quote]

She is asking him to leave the church, which can be unreasonable on his view and this requires further discussion on who should leave and why he should leave, etc. thus inviting communication and discussion.

I wrongly assumed that you (BA) were suggesting that SMB wrote something in the letter stating that some contact was acceptable.

You stated that she CLEARLY was asking for more communication. I didn't see that. I saw her not thinking straight and leaving a GAP in her thinking. This is why we all agree that they will have to decide (SMB and tst) to leave the church.

TST...your wife has asked me to come here and check a few things on your thread. I will suggest as someone that SMB has sought out that you put bestadvisor on ignore. This person is new and offers suggestions that are at best in conflict with this board...at worst, they are downright destructive for a marriage.

I have brought this to your attention after being asked here by your wife.

Stop twisting things around. His wife never asked you to tell him to ignore me. If she wants him to ignore me, now that the two of them have open communication, she would have ell him so without telling you to tell him to do so.

BA, why can't you leave these people alone? This is a dire situation and they came here for help with MARRIAGE BUILDERS, something about which you know nothing. Why can't you troll the general denistry board where the stakes are not as high? Have you NO mercy? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

tst,

I am Schoolbus, and my professional life and work deals with communication (nonverbal, verbal, and written), memory, language, and deceitful behavior. Additionally, I work in a field that deals with a variety of learning and memory, neurobiological issues, and related issues.

Part of what I do involves the analyses of communicative behaviors between people, and also the analyses of oral, nonverbal, and written language communications.

I have looked at your wife's letter to the OM.

There is absolutely no indication whatsover of any desire on her part for continued communication with him - either clear or nuanced - in the letter.

I do agree that the wording should be changed from "relationship" to "affair", but for a reason of clarity for SMB.

It is often the case that when a person begins using specific terminology to talk about their own behavior, or about certain events, that they are able to see with better clarity those particular behaviors or events. If SMB continues to refer to her affair with the OM as a "relationship", she will likely continue in the fog of fantasy, and continue to characterize her interactions with him as somehow different and special - which she admits she does. Right now, she says she thinks her relationship with him is somehow less hurtful to you because somehow she believes that being hurt first gives her affair some sort of different status.

By asking for the change in terminology, and by being sure that you also use the correct terminology in your own language regarding your own adultery, you both will likely find that your recovery curve will speed up. The "magic" is stripped away from the

"relationship"

because the truth is exposed each time the more appropriate but "ugly" words are used.

Adultery
Infidelity
Affair

I explain this when I teach about language and learning, about language and cognition and memory. Language and our experiences, our memories and our learning are inextricably linked.

We think about what we talk about; we talk about what we think about.

We also

Remember what we talk about; talk about what we remember.

and then the three hook up:

Remember, think, and talk about the same things, and the three intertwine.

And the terms we use CHARACTERIZE the thoughts are VERY IMPORTANT.

Because how those thoughts are mapped while we think, talk, and remember are how those thougts are entered into our minds and utilized for our world-interactions, now, and into the future. We use those characterizations, however nuanced and subtle, to make quite large and important neurological deposits into our brains.

So, in the banks of your brain, right now, you have a huge deposit to make.

Do you decide to make it in gold bullion, or just plain paper dollars?

Be sure about this point, tst. Because you and SMB can get this

RIGHT

at this point and forward.

With good planning, good thinking, good talking, and calling things what they are. And being really honest about those things.

The truth does not hurt. It is the lies that hurt.

And also, people who do not know what they are talking about. BA, for example, who COULD READ SOME THINGS ON THIS SITE, and perhaps, just perhaps, learn something.

Hope you read this far, BA. You are NOT dealing with an idiot here. Told ya.

SB

I NEVER SAID SHE DID!

What I said was this...."I will suggest..."
in addition to being a first class **** (edited by MEDC)...do you also have problems reading? Or are YOU trying to manipulate?



SMB did in fact ask me to come here and check out your posts to her H...making sure that he weas aware that you might not be qualified to give him decent advice.

TST,
I'm impressed with the progress you guys are making.

I agree about the foggy thinking on your wife's part. Am attending a Divorce Care group in my town; they specifically say repeatedly (my leader and the videos) DO NOT GET INVOLVED during separation and initially after divorce (and why)!!!

NO ONE cheating is expressing "integrity".

You have a right to your feelings as a BS as well as the ones you're expressing as a repentent WS.

Cutting contact is very important, whatever the cost. Perhaps the suggestions above will force OM out and allow you to stay at your church.

Do you guys have a counselor?

Best wishes,
Jenny--
former homeschooler dumped by serial adulterer after 21 years of marriage, in very nasty court battles now. It's ******. Save your marriage.

I contacted Marriage Builders and scheduled a secession for us with Jeniffer Harley this Sunday.
We also have an appointment locally with the counselor of her choice. I'm good with all this!
SMB agreed to change nc letter last night and included "affair" and also dropped the church issue completly as it could never be verified. Our chuch has 4 services and 2500 members. I am not comfortable returning and risking incidental contact, and I also feel it is not OM's burden to bear.

MEDC
Thanks for keeping an eye on me! My wife said you were very blunt at times. I need slammed on occasion, so don't be shy!
Thanks again

you're welcome...and yes, I can be blunt when called for.

Bottom line is, I look at affairs and the damage they do as acute situations needing immediate attention. I figure there's no point [censored] footing around the issues...so, I get right to the point.

Good luck with Jennifer.....and keep up the good work with your wife. She's a good woman and she deserves your support. I agree that the church issue needs to be handled by you and your wife and it is not really the OM's burden. Perhaps he will leave of his own accord at some point.

I hope you look into hiring someone to remove the things from the condo. There really is nothing material there that is worth salvaging since the potential for her triggering over things is great. Find someone that can use the stuff and make sure it goes somewhere that she will never have to see it again. In the whole scheme of things...this is something you can help her with...even if she doesn't ask.

lastly...if you need to email me at any point...feel free. My address is attached to my account here. So, if something comes up that you feel needs a bit more privacy, I will be happy to help you that way as well.

MEDC

I appreciate the suggestion. I may just do that!
My wife and I went over there last night to get some food items and from that moment on her rage throughout the night was so appearent that I had a night from he11.
thanks,

tst,

Triggers are everywhere. And the weird thing is that they can take you back immediately to the pain you felt during the worst of days. Kinda like a favorite song of yesterday. It can bring you back to the exact moment and place you heard it. And the feelings are attached.

When the "movie" starts playing in her head and the images are so vivid, the anger will follow the pain. It is sooooo frustrating to have to continually deal with those rotten emotions. And it's maddening that we have to. They were just thrust upon us. So get rid of anything that you can that will trigger her and yourself as well. The longer you two can stay in a good place during the day, the better.

And tst, when she does trigger, hold her. Tell her you understand why she is hurting at that momment. Reassure her. Don't ignore it as if it's just going to vanish on its own.


A little further into recovery, make it a point to ask her "how she is doing" and this refers to her pain from the A. I found as time went on, my H's direct inquiries stopped, yet I was dealing with this cr*p daily. It was lonely. Like I was left to do the worst of it alone. A month from now, two months from now, ask her. Gauge her progress. Ask her if she'd like to talk. This will help her to feel like you WANT to be a part of her recovery. Every bit of effort from now on will help her to see that you are still there. Working on recovery. In it for the long haul no matter what it takes.

When she gets this way, she completly shuts me out. If I attempt to push in she extends her hand and asks me to get away. She becomes only what I can describe as pure rage. I think it is going to take time before she is capable of accepting reassurance from me when she triggers.
But I won't give up and I am in this whatever it takes.

she will need to let go of the rage and deal with the hurt...otherwise, triggers will become a reason to stall recovery.

I agree, but can do very little other than trying to remove as many triggers as possible. She tells me I have not been there for her pain over the past 6 months, and she has had to learn to do this on her own and that she is not ready to let me in when she is like this. I am going to be patient. I still need all the feedback I can get.

p.s.
I called her a little while ago and suggested we find a way to keep her and I away from the condo and she agreed. I will get help to deal with the items that need removed.

Just make sure you keep her in the loop about how you're going about doing that. For now I think, ANYTHING having to do with "that place" will be a sore spot for her and keeping her informed of how you're getting things accomplished without YOU or HER going back will help her alot.