right, it makes no difference at all.

The only reason I even said that he was standing the whole time was because someone did ask that question.

We are getting caught up in semantics. Mrs. W has clearly gotten to the point. Your WH clearly lusted after your SIL, and it would have turned into a full blown PA if she hadn't stopped it. She wanted to flirt and feel wanted. Your WH took that as a green light to fondle her. Sadwife, this could have happened with any other woman. If he has a coworker that is giving him the "go" signal, he will likely cheat with her as well. He obviously can't control himself when he is put in that situation. You need to go to marital counseling with your WH and establish some marital boundaries (so he can't possibly ever be in that situation), learn to meet each others' ENs, and learn to avoid LBs so you can affair proof your marriage. Obviously it is not affair proof. I'm not coming down hard on you, I'm just trying to get to the point and help you out. If you don't heed our advice, you will have this happen again, only worse.

SHE DIDN'T STOP HIM!!!!!!!!!! He walked away....she has said that herself

Okay, that makes it better. NOT!

She stopped him by telling your brother. Of course he didn't have sex with her while you were in the house. If she didn't tell your brother, it would have eventually progressed. Your WH has no excuse to touch another woman. Until you figure out how and why he allowed himself to do this in marriage counseling, this is bound to happen again. This is why we say you are in denial. This is not an isolated incident. It is a pattern of behavior that needs to change in order to affair proof your marriage.

and..............? How does this change the facts?

Apparently she has stopped your H by ratting him out. The only reason you know is because of HER, not him. Keep that in mind.

Sadwife76,
He had no intention of telling you because it would hurt HIM not you. This is classic WS rationalization. I bet he decided on his own punishment of living with the guilt for the rest of his life. blah blah....

EGADS! Not telling you ensured that it COULD happen again.. You do realize that by NOT telling you, he left the door open for it happen again? Which is the point.

Your WH's and your SIL's behaviors are typical of people who get into affairs. They don't plan on cheating, but probably aren't getting all their needs met at home, they don't speak up about it, they are flirtatious with members of the opposite sex and don't have very defined marital boundaries, and then they put themselves in the position of having the OPPORTUNITY to have an affair, thinking that they have the willpower to say no. However, once you give yourself the opportunity and emotional needs are being met, it is easier to stop smoking than to avoid taking the relationship physical. It is an addiction, and can be described as "temporary insanity" like your husband rationalized it. The key is good marital boundaries that prevent your WH to even put himself in a position where he would even have the opportunity to have an affair. You don't have to turn sex down if you are never offered.

(((sadwife)))

I absolutely HATE having to defend someone who has hurt me.
And I think its very disappointing that is what is happening to you. So on top of being hurt and betrayed, now you have to defend your husband against all these accusations.
You don't have to defend your husband.
What he did was horrible and wrong, and has hurt you terrible.

You need answers. My only advice is to do the polygraph, since it seems that he is willing.

To help you organize your thoughts, what questions do you still have about the incident?

I would want every scrap of conversation from that morning.
I would want to know why YOU didn't cross his mind.
I would want to know if he is attracted to her.
I would want to know if any physical contact has occurred before.
I would want to know why he stopped.
I would want to know why she didn't.

And, how are you going to address this relationship in the future?

Exactly. But even when you have all these answers, your marriage is broken. If you want to fix it, we (meaning this board and Dr. Harley) can help you.

((((sadwife))))

Sadwife, just wondering how you're doing today.

Sadwife:

This whole thread turns on whether your SIL was asleep or awake, before your Husband "touched her inappropriately" (His words)

If she was asleep: It's assault.
If she was awake, and Unwilling participant: It's assault.
If she was awake, and willing: Then you have an Affair.

And 2 out of three of the scenarios above are really bad. BUT none of them are good.

2 put him properly in jail.

3 put him in the category of having boundary issues.

If I knew I was about to be busted by my BW, (and your WH was about to be, cause SIL had told your brother, and you were GOING to find out) I would have told you that I "touched her inappropriately" instead of "I copped a feel on our HOT SIL"

The spin on this event is extraordinary. From your Husband to the SIL.

Many posters here were looking for proof that you either didn't have, understand or word in your posts properly. Assault is assault. Your Husband should go to Jail for that. If what they did was between two consenting adults, you need MB to help repair your M. And SIL was expressing interest in something more with your H at the card game. Maybe, he took the invite "Too Far" and took her up on the obvious invitation. Your H was LOOKING for a reason to go to the SIL's room. (Shades, coffee, etc.)

However, whenever we have guests in OUR house, it's Male to male or female to female interaction at wake-up or other times that could be troublesome by thier very construction. Me being in the bedroom of a sleeping female, can only be considered dangerous. At most, a knock at a designated wake-up time on the door would be ALL I would ever do.

Please have the in-depth converstaion as recommended by others, (I reinterate the need for a polygraph, also!), with the H, Brother and SIL and try to get the real story. There IS alot more than meets the eye here. I personally do not believe it was assault. I think your H put his hand into the cookie jar and the SIL, after initially encouraging the behavior, realized that YOUR H WAS GOING TO DO IT! But by then, it was too late.

LG

Another ? SadWife. You say that you have only sons and that you've been married for 7 years. This stuff happened in your sons room from what you posted. Were the children present in the room when this occurred?

If yes, then you need to take steps to get H some help immediately.

If no, then don't assume that there was 30 to 60 secs of touching only. I still find it very strange that she told your brother, then let your H know she told.

Many people here recommend that you ask several questions of each person involved. When you do, make sure you also ask SIL why she told your H she said something to your brother about the incident instead of coming to you with the info.

Because she wanted to warn him that she "confessed". I'd be willing to bet more went on or has been going on than what she's been told. Maybe she was MAD because he walked away from her.

I dunno. It'll be interesting to hear the whole story. Either way at least Sadwife will know what she needs to do.

Sad wife,

Lets start all over again. ******************EDIT************

Lets look at the facts in perspective. Your H obviously felt guilty about this as well as the SIL. But IMHO (being a man and all), you have only gotten part of the truth from both of them.

No man in his right mind is going to cop a feel and leave. Should the situation present itself "most men" would take advantage and get a quicky (for a lack of better terms), if she is in fact a flirt, then she was also a willing participant (Takes two to tango).

Has she ever done this before? What does your brother say about all of this? Are you the only one that appears to be affected/upset?

If you really love your husband and he recipricates your feelings then I would suggest that MC be a good start. In addition to the MC, he MUST come clean and tell the whole truth. He knows the score, but you MUST emphasize that you both cannot get through this without TOTAL and unequivical honesty!

I answered your previous post, I believe it was the first one before you re-posted this topic again here.

Wish you the best, calm down and a take a deep breath all is not lost. You both are going to get through this!!

Alot of veterans with excellant advice are available for you here.

With everything that has been said thusfar, I think that it would be benefical to take a step back, re-trace your steps and come at this from a different angle.

I'll keep up with your post... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I beg your pardon. I don't know what has brought on this hysterical little SCREED, but I assure you that a man who walks into the bedroom of a sleeping woman and GRABS her vagina, uninvited, is committing assault and molestation. It is not an "affair" to grab a female guest by her private parts uninvited when she is half asleep in bed.

I don't know what world you live in, but in my world when a man does that, it an ASSUALT at worst, and MOLESTATION at BEST. And I bet if the SIL called the police they would feel the same.

When sadwife was asked for an EXPLANATION for this behavior, she replied that he was "temporarily insane." If that is truly the CASE, then he needs to be LOCKED UP.

You are doing her NO FAVORS by helping her IGNORE the gravity of the problem <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Oh, I see. Since she was a "flirt" then somehow she had it coming and was a "willing participant." I would like the EVIDENCE that brings you to that conclusion, since so far, all we have been told is that HE GROPED HER.

Or are you saying that all "flirts" DESERVE to be molested just because they are "flirts?' By what loony standard is that, LTKramer?

By that standard, then seductively dressed rape victims "had it coming," right?

Fabricate much? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Mel believed that based upon what Sadwife told us, this was not an affair. It was an assault. And therefore ought to be handled differently.

If this was an assault, do YOU think it should be approached in the same manner as an A?



For this being your first 'negative post' here, you sure went all out. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

~ Marsh

LTKramer,

FWIW, I agree with your observations, even though they've now been deleted. If you don't know, this site has an "ignore" feature ... just click on a posters name and then click on "ignore this user".

Like most message boards, there are always a few that annoint themselves as experts and will ruin it for others if allowed. Just use the "ignore" feature and spend your time here in peace without unwanted interference.

Good Luck to you, and let's return to Sadwife's issues.