Lousygolfer,

Yeah, it was as casual as it gets. She's always separated sex and emotion, more like a male. She did it big-time in this case.

Princessmeggy,

We were married for 12 years in August, and I have a 6 y.o. son in addition to our daughter.

All right, K. You sound a lot better now…a lot calmer…and that’s good. Venting is a time-honored method of reducing stress and you're entitled to engage in that every single time you feel the urge.

K, please put revenge out of your mind. You can’t walk out on that street at high noon and let your guns start barking. If in fact such things were ever settled that way, the time has passed us by. You literally cannot get revenge in any way that won't hurt you and your family far more than it hurts the vanished OM.

Here's a thought: you haven't remarked on how OMW took the news but if it helps any, she's probably putting him through more he11 than you EVER could.

So, tell us, K. What's next? Did you only come here to vent? If that's all you needed...hey, that's fine. But, if you understand you need something else...if you think you can use a program that will, in time, bring you a marriage that can be stronger than it ever was, then tell us. Commit to analyzing the anger, picking it apart, and defusing it. Lay everything out in black and white and be ready to back up your words with action. Are you ready to actually recover from this obscenity that has intruded into your life and marriage? Are you ready to get to work?

Hang a torso size punching bag in your garage. Doctor it up to look like OM. When the mood strikes you <pun intended> go out and beat the crap out of it until your anger subsides, however long that may be.

Jo

Longhorn,

I've got to try. Are you a motivational speaker by any chance? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Resilient,

Good idea...I'm in the process of cleaning the garage now.

Krazy:

I know what you are going through. I have huge anger issues with one guy in particular, and some other people that I am not going to name.

Most people that see me don't know I am carrying this around. Usually only comes out when no one else is around or I am trying to exercise.

I have thought about something that helps me. I can't decide who my (now) ex-wife and current wife are going to be. They have control over that. I can decide who I am. I am not giving them the opportunity to control that for me, and if you give in to this anger, then that is what you will do.

I am not talking about venting, that I think is very healthy.

LOL No, K, I'm a retired Air Force Senior NCO with a smattering of training and experience in counseling and a whole lot of years observing the human condition.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

When you've finished cleaning out the garage and hung that body bag, use it until you're too tired to hold your hands up. Then get a shower and get to bed. This has been a pivotal day in your life. You've taken the big step to find a place to get help and you've explained some of your situation. There’s only so much a man can do in one day.

Tomorrow, how about starting on a full resume of how your marriage got in this condition and what has happened. Don't worry about letting too much get out. You have complete anonymity out here...so use it. You're one of 300 million citizens in this country and I swear you'll never be found by anyone on this board. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

The reason you've been urged to say more about this is that the folks here might pick up on something you tell us that you don't think important or even recognize as pertinent to the question. Maybe not...maybe we won't see anything, but we'll get to know you and your WW through your words. The more words you write, the better we'll know you two, and the better we'll be able to advise you. Besides, putting things down “on paper,” if you will, helps you organize your own thoughts.

Without the anger, K, I think things are going to work out for you and your family. The glass is clearly more than half full. You're starting with a remorseful WW and 99% of the guys out here with success stories to recount didn't have that advantage.

Hang in there, K.

I will do that if I can make the time. Thank you very much!

Okay, start writing when you can, but stay with it. There's no time limit for recovery, but there's no sense in delaying things either, right?

LH

Well, here it goes:

My experience with infidelity started when I was 7 or 8. My mom and dad were both cheating, and I knew about both affairs. My mom was banging her boss, and my dad WAS a boss, banging a subordinate. My mom took me along to spy on my dad, and I got to be there when she busted him the first time. Thanks, mom! She also tried to make me befriend her boss’s sons at company functions…you know…just in case they ended up together.

I lost all respect for both of my parents by the time I was 10, when they divorced. I swore I’d never be like either one of them….when I was TEN YEARS OLD. My dad has since passed away, but neither of them have ever gained my respect, and I haven’t forgiven them.

My wife and I were married in 1995 when I was 23, she was 19. She was not pregnant. We were far too young, obviously, but we were naïve. She had already sown her wild oats, and I was much less experienced. She was the extrovert, and I was the introvert.

For the first 3 or 4 years, things were OK but slowly degrading. We argued more and more frequently as time went on. We were kids trying to figure out how to be married. Neither of us had any positive role models growing up…we were improvising. I thought it was just a rough patch, like all marriages have. What did I know? During this period, we got an internet connection for the first time. Prior to that we had almost no experience with online activity, so when my wife started flirting with a guy in California in a chat room, I thought it was harmless fun. More naivety on my part. Soon after, her employer installed a network, and she began chatting with this OM during work hours. I still didn’t recognize it as an online EA…I had never heard of such a thing, and to me an affair couldn’t happen until there was sexual contact.

In the summer of 2000 she got pregnant with our 1st. At that point she confessed that she was on the verge of leaving me…she had already purchased a plane ticket. The plan was to fly out to California, bang OM for a week, have fun in San Francisco, and have me served with divorce papers while she was gone. She had been talking to him for about 2 years at that point. She took getting pregnant as a sign that she should try to work on things…she still loved me, I guess.

Once I finally started to realize how serious the situation had been, I was changed as a person. I became insecure and jealous. The EA was never properly addressed, however. We didn’t educate ourselves, didn’t seek help…I never even called it an affair, because it STILL didn’t occur to me that that’s what it was…I still thought of it as flirting that got out of hand. Stupid me.

She’s always had an unstable job history, and that didn’t change after our son was born. She went from a profession with a stable income to a commission-based line of work that gave her lots of freedom to surf the net, get out of the office, etc.

It was her lack of income that led to many fights. We had debt, and a child to take care of. She didn’t want to change jobs because a fat paycheck was always right around the corner. It never showed up, of course, but OM did. He was doing some work in her office, they started talking, he asked her to lunch…I posted the rest.

Since d-day she told me that at some point during a really rough time she consciously thought to herself, “Fine. You want me to stay? I’ll stay. But I’ll have some fun on the side, too”. Then she started keeping her eyes open. OM was in the right place, at the right time, with the right objectives.



I don’t know how to wrap this up, except to say I’ll answer any questions I have an answer to. Thanks in advance for any responses.

So how does she feel about adultery now?

She really hates it. She despises what she did. She went out and bought "Not Just Friends" on her own, and read it. She cringes when infidelity is mentioned on TV or in movies, just like I do.

She can't believe what type of person she had become.

Or she's one terrific actress. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Thanks for posting more details.

You may find that coming here and getting this all out is therapeutic in itself.

It certainly helps!

After re-reading my own post, I can't help but wonder if at least some of my anger is unresolved anger from my childhood. My mom started the cheating...my father knocked her up WHILE SHE WAS STILL MARRIED TO HER 1ST HUSBAND. She then divorced him and married my dad. Charming, isn't it?

My dad became depressed, hit the sauce, and started cheating himself. When they divorced, he bolted for Florida.

I got some of this information from an aunt, by the way. My mother would never admit such wrongdoing.

I've always been angry with my mother, but until my own d-day, I couldn't put my finger on it.

The whole time, it was because she's an adultress.

Is shameless bumping allowed? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Bump away! Look, you are in need and those of us who are around at the time will chime in.

It's interesting, and I don't know how much this has to do with my FWH's cheating, but he was TAKEN ALONG with his mother on her DATES with OM, and when she arrived home she would tell her BH that "PWC (my FWH) needed this or that, so we ran out to do that, blahbetty blah blah blah."

PWC ended up being the one to expose his mother's A to his dad. Can we say SCARRED.

I guess we all have our things in our childhood, but I would have to count that as a doozy.

Without any psychoanalization, I would say that you could start there with some of that anger. I'm sure you have plenty for your dad, too.

When you feel the need or have a question, or are having a rough time, come here and post it. People can only advise what you will tell us, not what we INFER from posts, so be as open as you can.

Believe me, my family has a lot of skeletons, but I'm okay with them NOW. I'm dealing with it.

Thank you again.

IMO, it's takes "despicable" to a whole new level to have your kids directly involved in your adultery. I cna't imagine being more selfish.

Here I am, 30 years after the fact, and I've got got 4-letter words (and worse) running through my head to describe my mother. Then again, she still isn't remorseful, and has never apologized to me for what she did...and I refuse to ask.

Well, yeah, of course, why would you? It's really a matter of your mother's won moral code. If she does not SEE, then why would she apologize? Makes since. Sux all the same, but makes sense.

THe good thing is that YOU know right from wrong. You know not to hurt your children in this way or any other despicable way. Doing what's right doesn't always FEEL so great, but it's better than the alternative, which can make you eventually feel like sh!te!

Also, I'm becoming a firm believer of leaving the past where it is, learning from it, but not living in it. Your wife is not your mother, and her OM is not that POS boss that your mother had her A with (he's another variety POS).

YOu SHOULD feel anger toward the OM. You would be unnatural if you didn't and you would probably be lying to yourself. It's really the AMOUNT of rage that you need to learn to dissipate. You may always have anger toward him, but he will become unimportant in your landscape over time, and fade so far into the background.

I think you needed to find this place so that you could find brethren; people who would understand, but NOT let you get away with remaining in this angry place. We will make you ask yourself the tough questions. We will not sit by and allow you to make decisions that could potentially harm you, much less your FWW and family.

Yes sir, this could be a good place for you to get the help to fix YOU.

Bumping is allowed, yes sir. But remember some of us take a while to ponder and consider our posts…and some of us take even longer typing (and it's worse if we don't notice the post right away), okay? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Okay, my first thought is that you and your wife need marital and individual counseling in a big way and it's probably going to be a long-term thing. There are problems you two haven't resolved that may, as you say, date back to your childhood, and probably hers too. She didn’t get the way she is overnight, and neither did you.

Your wife has demonstrated exceptional irresponsibility in several areas. She’s been exceptionally selfish in the arena of her employment, for instance. She quits a good job because the demands of working a steady 9-5 job don’t give her enough “freedom,” eh? That speaks of a very immature personality and possibly what is known as narcissism. She wants what she wants and to he11 with everyone else? Whoa!

Personally, I think your wife needs a lot of time with a really good counselor to understand herself and turn herself around. Getting caught has probably gotten her attention, but much remains to be done.

As for you, I believe your fury may be directed at the man you caught your wife with, and you’ve probably shown your wife some of your rage also. BUT…I think on a deep level, you actually are even angrier at a situation you simply do not know how to solve.

I think you understand that your wife has been taking holidays from the marriage for a while now. If I interpret your words correctly, when you caught her with another man, it was the third man she’d been involved with (at least) emotionally. Perhaps it was just the second. Or perhaps it was the fourth, or the fifth. You don’t know what she’s been doing online while employed at that free lancing kind of job, do you?

Am I wrong, pardner? If none of this rings true, tell me. I’m sometimes a little TOO suspicious of what I read in your words.

If you can agree with me to any extent, hear this. You two are the prototypical couple in need of professional counseling. I do not say that lightly. Frankly, if you had not already told us your wife is very remorseful and willing to work on the marriage, my suggestions would frankly tend in a different direction. Your wife is a serial adulterer and she’s got a LOT of work to do to pull herself together and she must help you heal from this obscenity at the same time. Dr. Harley tells us that one instance of adultery is almost impossible to recover from. The ravages of serial adultery are normally insurmountable.

Since your wife is working to recover, there is a chance. Let me say it again. In many ways, I don’t think I’ve ever heard of another couple that could benefit so much and probably produce so much progress in the early stages of getting counseling from a good, pro-marriage, counselor. Friend, I urge you to find a way to get that counseling, no matter what.

Failing that, or while you are in the process of finding the ways and means, how about reading Surviving An Affair by Dr. Willard Harley? The first part of that book describes how to end an affair, but the second half is chapter and verse on how to affair-proof a marriage and you two can gain a lot from that portion of the book.

One of the concepts you’ll find there is a commitment for you and your wife to spend at least 15 hours weekly with each other. That’s 15 hours of “quality time,” friend. And conversations with the newspaper held up between you don’t count toward that goal, if you get my drift. Look. People reignite their love with lots of contact, depositing and receiving deposits into what Dr. Harley calls your personal love banks. If you’re uncomfortable with that terminology, call it being loving, courteous, polite, and responsive with your spouse and getting the same in return.

You’ll also find in SAA some recommendations for total transparency and radical honesty. They don’t need much explanation, but Dr. Harley goes into some detail about them. To be succinct, there can’t be any secrets. Adultery thrives in secrecy. There should never be a time when your whereabouts aren’t known to your wife, and vice versa.

There are other recommendations, but you should read the book for yourselves.

You and your wife, I suspect, do not communicate effectively. That needs to end. Pardner, communicate from the time you get up in the morning until your eyelids begin fluttering in REM sleep. For a while, you two will have to consciously remind yourselves to do it; afterward it becomes a part of who you are.

Man, we’re straight on the urge to mangle someone, right? Don’t do it, period. When you start getting those feelings, you be the man and shift the emotional energy you’re feeling into something productive, okay? If you need to do something physical, that’s why you’re cleaning out the garage and putting in that body bag.

Work a need for violent expression out of your system that way, and by working to shift your thoughts away from what set you off. We call them “triggers” out here…things (events, memories, words, a look from your wife…anything) that reminds you of any aspect of the affair. Work on controlling the triggers, pushing yourself to think of other things when triggered. It’s hard, hard work but with time, the impact of the triggers decreases. If you’ve trained your psyche well enough, you’ll automatically shunt your depressed thoughts into a back channel while replacing them with something pleasant and/or distracting.

Okay, enough rambling from an old fart. If you can use nothing but the suggestion you get SAA, STUDY it, and begin to apply it in your life, this missive will have been worthwhile.

What do you think, K? You in this for the long haul? It’ll take a lot of work to glue this back together. You ready for that?

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Question for the forum: Do y’all think it would be advantageous to invite this man’s wife to MB or should it be left as a refuge for K71?

Thank you...I appreciate any attempt at help, and just maybe I can help others along the way.