Orchid: Your response was fine. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> As for his denial of being addicted to the OW....remember he said that, then the next time he acts addictedly (new word <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> ), then remind him he isn't addicted. LOL!!!



Orchid: RB response: Ws, don't mock God. How can you have a great R with God and be an adulterer?


Orchid: You really want a recon with a/WH? Better to plan one for your real H which s/b much easier. In the meantime keep the WS away from your family. He is toxic.

JMHO,
L.

Prepare to IGNORE him...

What he will be SAYING is FOGGY CRAP...

Ok, I kinda am getting it, but not totally.

How can I approach the negotiations for him to come home. Just come right out and ask him.

How did you do it?

[quote} Prepare to IGNORE him...

What he will be SAYING is FOGGY CRAP... [/quote]

LOL, that's the best laugh I've had all day..

I don't want to confuse you. Do what works best with your WH.

Orchid knows that wa tend to disagree about this...

I'm not sure if this fits with what is recommended by the Harleys in doing PLAN A...

Yep..just came right and TOLD HIM..that's what I wanted..OPENNESS and HONESTY is what the Harleys advocate.

And that's what I did with my H...

Ok, gotcha....

Tell me how you started to implement the negotiations. I will pray for guidance from G-d while I am talking to him and let what comes naturally.

Ok, I'll let the difference of opinions on the table and keep to "me" and getting my M restored.

So let's focus on how I can start to implement the road back home. What would YOU suggest or how did YOU do it?

I am really drawing some blanks on this.

Did you get him to meet you somewhere you could be alone?

How did he respond? Did you set up this conversation or just kept Plan Aing him and one day came straight out and said what you wanted?

I have more questions, but my rabbi is calling....brb

Well, that was quite an emotional conversation with my rabbi, almost an hour. My rabbi suggested that I go to a few websites for the addiction stuff. She isn't buying that WH is in an addiction and so I just thanked her. She also thinks that G-d might be fighting for me just as hard as I am fighting for my M. This is the hardest part of where I feel that the Jewish community isn't supporting my stand for my M.

But I don't need to go there tonight or soon. I have action to do. And praying to keep up.

Mimi,

Does your my gift to you thread talk about how you came out and asked your H to come home? Or was there another thread that I can read?

You know that I am listening and reading and acting on everything you are telling me. I just have to work it around in my mind to make it understandable and therby applicable. I have faith in what you are guiding me to do, I just sometimes need to clarify it so I can wrap my mind around it.

Please keep your patience with me. I am your "finest" student. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I think the best thing for you to do is to get a copy of SURVIVING AN AFFAIR. Like I said before, I read that over and over again. Dr. Harley describes PLAN A and PLAN B, giving examples and directions. That was my main guide book.

My Plan A is not on that "MY GIFT" thread.

Queenie, how else would he know that you want him to come home if you don't tell him? He probably expects for you to JUST GIVE UP and to be HIS FRIEND or something.

Are you wanting him to just do this on his own? This is when you two begin working as a TEAM.

He needs your help and let him know that you are willing to work with him on this...

I told my H from the very beginning when I first discovered his affair that I wanted "another chance"..that I did not want a divorce..that he would have to seek a divorce..even when I got the LSA, he knew it was for my financial security and not because I was planning to divorce him...

PLAN B was about NO LONGER BEING IN THE TRIANGLE with them...no involvement with him until he ended his relationship with her.

I MADE IT CLEAR TO HIM RIGHT FROM THE VERY BEGINNING...how I felt about it...

Why does this seem so odd to you?

I'm encouraging you to be OPEN and HONEST about what you want and how you feel.

You need to take charge of your life, Queenie.

You don't have to talk to ANYONE who does not agree with you or does not support you.

IMO, it is DISRESPECTFUL of anyone to try to dissuade you from pursuing this the way that you want to do it.

I'm encouraging you to become STRONGER and BOLDER. SPEAK OUT...about who you are and your beliefs..even to your rabbi. Why the need to hold back from stating your choices..how you want to lead your life?

I'm leaving tomorrow for a few days. I may not be online until Thursday.

Any particular questions?

This summer when I first found this website, I did order and read SAA and HNHN. I have read it a few times, but I will go back and read it again and see what I am missing that you know I am missing. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Let me reread what you have written and see if I have any questions.

From the very beginning as well, I told my H I wanted "another chance". I told him that I realized I had made so many mistakes and was learning things and wanted to create a "new marriage" one that could be beyond our dreams ever imagined. He told me that he didn't believe that the changes were real and that he believes with a HUGE amount of work, he can have an amazing relationship with her.

I have not once steered from that. He just keeps saying he wants "something more than to be married to his best friend". His biggest argument is that he loves me but has NO DESIRE for me.

I have to admit, since I have had your guidance and have been working this Plan A, I haven't actually come out and said I want you to come home and create a new marriage. I just don't know how to bring it up. I mean, just walk right in and drop that in his lap?

It's not the doing it that's got me stuck, it's the how do I do it. Or am I just dunce on this. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Mimi,

I think you really hit in on the head about me taking charge of my life. It's the one thing that I have NOT EVER been able to do.

Part of it is old tapes, and just not a behavior I am at all comfortable with. The desire is there to learn it, I just don't know how.

Does that make sense?

I never felt worthwhile enough that I deserved to be assertive for things that I wanted.

OK! GREAT!! MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />



Well, you know how I feel about what HE SAY... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />




GREAT NEWS!! He has NOT lost his LOVE for you!!

There's that FRIENDSHIP stuff again...interesting..same was true for my H...we're still BEST FRIENDS..and that's how I relationship got started...

I made it VERY CLEAR to him though that if he did not end his R with the OW..if he divorced me..I WOULD NOT BE HIS FRIEND ANYMORE..that's what I talk to Bugsy about a lot...Drac wanting to be her friend.. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />



WHY NOT? What have you got to lose?

"FEEL THE FEAR AND DO IT ANYWAY"..JUST DO IT...Make it sweet, short and simple..Practice if you need to...

Hi SG,

You have a long thread, so was wondering if you could give me the "short" version of your story, kind of like Sis did on Believer's holiday thread. I hate to ask, but I don't have time to read the entire thing and I want to contribute if I can.

Actually Mimi, we haven't had that conversations for a few months now. On Labor Day weekend, that Friday, he told me he was coming home because she had gone out and used again and didn't come home.

He said he was done with her. Then on Sunday of that weekend, he used the best friend line and said he wanted something more.

When did you make it clear to him? Is that pre Plan B.

I have NOTHING to LOSE and everything to gain. I just dont' know how to react if he tells me he isn't coming home. How can I walk away with my head held high and dignity and not cry when my heart will be broken.

I'm afraid to hear that this is it? Or is that just stupid on my part. Even if he tells me he isn't coming home, things can change, couldn't they.

Just call him up or go down to work and tell him? And how soon? Should I keep Plan Aing for alittle longer? I am really sorry that I am having a hard grasping this.

I will do it, but something is missing in this for me and I don't know what. UGHHHH

I don't think you give yourself enough credit or realize your PERSONAL POWER. Didn't you say that you have lots of influence in your community? You walked right into your WH's office...that took LOADS of COURAGE...

I think it's YOUR THOUGHTS that are ENEMY...Been there...

Stop listening to the old tapes..

It's easier than you think.

When you hear the voice that says PULL BACK..GO FORWARD..

When you hear the tape that says..YOU'RE DOING TOO MUCH..DO MORE...

Do the OPPOSITE of what the tapes are telling you...

That's what I learned to do..

YOU HAVE THE POWER TO CHANGE YOURSELF AND YOUR LIFE...

I've been encouraging you to BE BOLD...LOUD..BE SEEN..HEAD UP..CHEST OUT...

Hi Chai,

Short version.

Hubby of 24 years has been having an A since May of 06. My two children busted him on 5-14-07 and he left home to eventually move in with her.

She is 45, twice divorced crack addict with hep c. Three children, 30, 20 and 19. The 19 YO has 3 children. OW is on state disability for her liver condition and stays at home and caters to my H.

WH is in MLC, and wanting to have no part of responsibilities, he just wants to play and have fun. He has gone from an everyday dad to almost no relationship with any of his 3 children. He is the victim in all this and feels the kids are the ones to have to build the relationship back.

Both WH and I have been sober long time, but didn't work a recovering program at all and lived in a dry drunk for many, many yrs.

WH lives with OW in their own house, in a place commonly referred to as Deliverance and won't come home because he wants to be married to something more than his best friend.

I am working Plan A, thanks to the guidance of Mimi and preparing for Plan B. She is working very hard to get me to come out and tell H I want him to come home and create a new marriage, but I am stuck on how to get that accomplished. She is being amazingly patient with me.

What else do you need to know?

Ok, be BOLD, AND GET IT DONE.

I'll go down to work next week and tell him if the opportunity doesn't happen before that.

Or should I invite him out for a walk and then talk to him?

That's what I need help in understanding. How did you actually do it.

He is on right now, what should I try and do with him?

We are talking about nothing in particular, just conversations.

He's gotta go, has things to do. He always seems so busy and happy.

How can that be? I just want to knock him sometimes.

You still think you may have some power over him. You still think that there is something that you can say or do to make him come home. You are not buying that he is addicted to her.

YOU ARE POWERLESS OVER HIS ADDICTION. You only have control over yourself. Plan A is not about you doing just the right thing to MAKE him come home or to MAKE HIM see the reality.

PLAN A IS ONLY ABOUT YOU. PLAN A IS ONLY ABOUT YOU. YOU demonstrating your changes to him. Then, YOU do PLAN B. GO DARK so that he will miss you. He will no longer have his friend. MBers is about YOU..working YOUR PLANS...That's the way I see it. This program is not about MAKING the WS do anything..The WS has to come to it ON HIS/HER own.

I was there, thinking I could come up with just the right thing to say or do.

You have to ACCEPT that you ARE POWERLESS over him. But you have your own PERSONAL PRIDE. And when he tells you that he will not reconcile. DON'T BE SURPRISED. You will be hurt but don't be surprised. Because HE IS IN AN ADDICTION and will have to suffer to come out of it..You see, YOU WILL HAVE TO BUY THE ADDICTION THEORY...and you can walk away feeling good about YOURSELF, knowing that YOU have done all that you can do..

I remember saying to my H early on in Recovery, "What if you leave me again?" and he said, "at least you can feel good to know that you did all you could"..it's about YOU, Queenie. It's YOUR PLAN...You having faith in yourself and GOD to pull you through...

I wish I could make it clearer for you...

But I think you have not LET GO OF FEELING THAT YOU CAN CONTROL HIM...

NEGOTIATING THE END OF THE AFFAIR IS PART OF PLAN A....Do you know what I mean by that?