Oh and we aren't going to give her any HELP are WE.

I met my insurance guy tonight. I gave him a hard time about meeting OW and WH. I asked him what he thought of her. He was SHOCKED at how UGLY she was. TRULY SHOCKED and said she was FATTER than me.

I know we have been here before and before and before... But it just really does stun me HOW UGLY and FAT she is. I just can't believe he left me for that.

Oh well, I'm off to a restaurant to meet with other school secretaries. Did I happen to mention that not only am I getting compliments from the ladies at work, BUT MEN, are really starting to notice the changes.

I look healthier, am glowing, and never looked as happy as i do. Hmmmm....

So, ecard tonight for H. I think Friday I will pop over with the CD finally and leave it with him and ask him to come over on Sunday. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

What are some other ways to meet Admiration. I'm kinda stumped at what I could do.

Yep..it's not about HER LOOKS..how she makes him FEEL...the DRUG...

ADMIRATION: You need his HELP with the kids..and the FRISBEE stuff..only CONVERSATION may be available but that'll work...

Ok, when you say help with the kids, what do you mean? Have him problem solve stuff that I am doing with them, the fact the one of them is failing three grades, am I trying to get them together? Not sure exactly what you mean. Sorry.

Conversation it is. I have no trouble getting him to usually talk to me. He LOVES to talk about himself and what he is doing.....

Talk to him about how you NEED his HELP with CHILDREARING..from a MAN'S perspective..in raising boys...

It's so OBVIOUS, isn't it?

You talked about ADMIRATION..how to meet that need, huh? What's there to ADMIRE?

But you can evidence that when he DOES act ADMIRABLE, you can EVIDENCE APPRECIATION for it.

Share more SPECIFICALLY, if you don't mind, what Steve had to say about this situation?

Did he think there's any value to any further PLAN A?

Ok

Not to me. He has completely washed himself of the children and so I have looked to G-d for help in what to do. I can pray and think of things I could come up with. But these just bring back the reality that he doesn't want responsbility. He is happy having someone cater to him and not have any responsibility.

Right now, there isn't a darn thing to admire. That's why I am having hard time. I am appreciative that he gives me money for the kids. But he has completely abandoned us and says its all our faults, not his. He has no integrity, no honor. He has completely cut himself off from his life and hasn't tried to make this situation easier on me at all.

I used to admire his commitment to his family, devotion to me, his caring attitude for us. I admired how hard he worked for the family so we would have as much money as possible.

Yes, when he does act admirable or even in conversations about work I am ALWAYS sincere in my compliments and admiration. I don't lie to him, maybe bolster it a little more. I mean when he talks to me about hiring someone and I ask him what qualities he is looking for he says integrity, honesty, openess and willingness, I just want to say, how would you recognize them if you saw them. Of course I don't, I just comment and ask him how will you know when you see that. I always ask engaging questions and listen to see where I can go next.

Steve talked about how he has compartmentalized, is shutting things out, keep things out of his mind, totally self serving and selfish. How my WH is pretending not to be a father and husband as though you can just quit that.

Steve really wishes he could realize what SHE is giving him because he can't figure that piece out and it would be so helpful.

He wants me to set things up for Plan B, not as punishment to my WH, but as a form of protection for me and my children. It will allow me to take care of myself and show the kids a sense of right and wrong. That what he is doing is NOT ok.

He said that my WH is pursuing life ina way of who he isn't and surrounding himself with enablers.

He wants me to keep communicating that you and I would be great together, to be encouraging, and hopeful. He says my WH is typical, but to the extreme.

He feels that my WH's body is in danger of deteoriating. That the consequences or by products of a delusion lifestyle may catch up with him. He wonders if my kids would state how they truly feel. So far, they have to some degree and he just says they will get over it or it's not his fault. They kicked him out. Or he has already said he was sorry.

He wants my plan B to convey my position. That what you are doing is hurtful. That pursuit of happiness at the expense of your family is a bad idea. That it isn't a great idea to do things that hurt people. Somehow seeing if he has options where you aren't gaining at the family expense. Somehow I have to weave all this into Plan B letter. And he wants me to send the letter every 3 to 6 months.

He really didn't talk to me about Plan A too much, he thinks I need to get to Plan B asap. I think my bubble got totally bursted and I lost focus on what I was doing. And I got scared and rejected again.

So.... has this helped, any thoughts or ideas how to proceed with a big bang?

Oh, one other interesting thing that my insurance man said. I asked him if they were holding each other or looked happy.

He said - "I don't ever remember a time when WH has looked happy".

I remember asking our friend that very same question. Does he act happy or look happy when he is with her. He said " I have never seen WH look happy".

No one knows him like me. I have seen him happy, but he controls his emotions so much. That's what drove me away. And I just realized that what he gets from her the drug is the ability to absolutely control her. He started losing control over me a few years ago and that's when things really starting to fall apart.

So, how can I meet his need to control? Because each and every day I get stronger away from him. Quite a dilema

I meant it's OBVIOUS to US that you need help with childrearing..but it's not OBVIOUS to HIM.. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />



That's interesting..a reminder..

What's your time frame on PLAN B?

Do you think he will come over so that you can talk to him face to face?

What do you think the effect was allowing YOUR KIDS to have sayso over him leaving? Do you think it would matter to let him know that you REGRET that..that you wished you had allowed him to stay?

What happened with your house? Is it in foreclosure?

LOL - I'm so glad I haven't lost my mind. Just the obvious. LOL

Timeframe for Plan B... I have the papers almost done, there was mounds of them. I will have them to the lawyer by Friday or Monday at the latest. And then get a sense from him.

I was planning on popping over on Friday to work to bring him that CD pack and asking him to come over and look at the car on Sunday. Will see then.

Since I have Monday off I was going to pray for no rain and call him during the day and see if he would stop off on his way home and play frisbee with me.

I have been through this with him. He only HEARS what he wants to hear. I asked him to NOT leave that night, I told him that he was MORE IMPORTANT to me than the kids. You see, I was gone when the kids confronted him. I came home to the situation.

From the very beginning I have asked him to come home. He just kept telling me that he wants something more than his best friend. That he has NO DESIRE for me and wants to be with someone he has DESIRE for.

Now, we don't talk about anything that has to do with R.

My house is done being remodeled and is up for sale. I actually am hoping it takes a while so that any money can be put into an account and we are waiting for the courts to give me more than 50%

I don't buy this, Queenie. She is meeting an EMOTIONAL NEED. Let's rephrase this. Is she showing appreciation and admiration for the HELP that he gives her?



Why are you saying he needs control? I used to think this about my H. He didn't want to be IN CONTROL. He wanted to be THE MAN of the family..THE LEADER..IN CHARGE..in a show of LOVE..not out of a need for control...

So, he used the kids' confrontation as an EXCUSE to move out then. My H used to set up fights with our sons so he could leave to be with the OW.. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />..same old WS SCRIPT...

I think it's time for PLAN B..ASAP...

I think it's important for you to TELL HIM face the face the stuff that you need to say before giving him the letter...

Ok, I go along with this.... She is completely dependent on HIM for money. She has no job and stays at home and caters to him. I'm sure she is doing whatever she needs to do to keep this going.

I do know she bosses him around, he was complaining about that awhile back to our friend.

Many many years ago, I learned about and chose to become a wife that created the house where he WAS THE HEAD OF THE HOUSEHOLD. I deferred to him in a loving and most respectful manor that he was the head and I needed his input and guidance on how to create a house and family that he wanted. I lived this way for YEARS and YEARS and it didn't make him happy.

You have encouraged me along the way that I know my H better than anyone. There are two things I know deeply as I breathe about him.

1. He has to be RIGHT at all cost. ANY COST.
2. He needs to control. I can't explain why this drives him so deeply BUT it does.

When this first happened or maybe a month or so into this, my SIL and I were talking on the phone. She made a comment on how she watched WH control the kids in a situation and it shocked her that she was seeing it as if it were her dad.

I can almost write the script on how he is controlling her especially with her being a crack addict and him giving up his life for her, etc.

So control is key here. He NEEDS it. It drove him away that he couldn't control me.

I am willing to look at this from another angle if you think it could be something else. I am willing to do anything.

Look for my response tomorrow.

LOL, ok...

Sleep well. Please be patient with me. I truly am trying to be a good student. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Yes, he actually uses everything the kids do as an excuse for his lack of being involved.

How come?

I have no problem doing this, but why?

Your tone about Plan A seems to have changed, what did I say to affect your thinking?

Good Morning Queenie,

Thanks for the note last night. You're right, we haven't talked much this week. You've been doing so well, that it was like watching a flower bloom, so I concentrated on supporting some of our other friends that are really struggling. Last weekend was emotionally draining, just so much energy put into the plan. It did go well though. Now it's all about tonight. I'm a little nervous about it, because it's so unknown, but I keep telling myself that she's allot more nervous and scared about this than I am. I'm just waiting for the surprise, I get the feeling that she has something that she's going to try to pull off tonight (Or she's scared that I'm going to get real tough, which I am BTW) She has no clue that I've retained a Lawyer, and I don't think she knows that she probably should as well.

Ok, enough about me....

Mimi, I'd like to take a stab at this one, and please correct me if you think I'm out in left field.


To me your WH is not only cake eating, he's also decorating the cake before he eats it. Between the two women in his life he is getting his EN's met, so there no real incentive for him to really think about the choices he's made, and she hasn't had to step up to the plate to meet those ENs he's still getting from your Plan A. Going to a dark Plan B changes all of this dynamic. There is always the chance of out of sight out of mind, but that's his choice to make. You have blossomed into a warrior goddess and do not NEED him for you to be happy again. You WANT him, but if he decides not to come back, it will be his loss in the end.

The funny thing about that, is I almost DON'T WANT to do WELL. Somehow I have to learn to ACCEPT that I am a GOOD PERSON and I AM DOING WELL. This is SO HARD. This is where my "alcoholism" kicks in. It wants to destroy me and will if I don't fight through this.

I don't see at all where he is cake eating. I am the only one reaching out and keeping in contact. The only time he responds is when he wants something like the camera or the field for lacrosse.

This is my worst nightmare, but in the end, I have to have FAITH in G-d. This is TRULY where G-d has it completely where he wants it. ME TOTALLY OUT OF THE PICTURE TO DO HIS WORK IN BOTH OF US.

Again, this is very SCARY for me. In AA there is a saying that G-d doesn't give you what you want, he ONLY gives you what you NEED.

I grapple with this very thing. Do I NEED OR WANT him. I guess the only way I know how to ANSWER it, is I LOVE MY H, and I made a commitment to him and G-d for all the days of my life. I NEED to fulfil that commitment because it is the very ESSENCE of who I am. I NEED to be a wife because it completes me, in a healthy way.

I am so NOT THERE where is he decides to NOT come back it's his LOSS. I still feel like the loser, but that is just something internally that I have to work through and let G-d walk through with me.

Now about you....

What time tonight so I can be praying for you. You are on the east coast time? I completely understand that draining feeling. What are you doing for yourself to help you when you are giving so much. You tank would just have to be at empty.

I have looked but don't see those qualities. Tell me them again. How are you doing emotionally today, are you focused on what it is is you WANT or NEED so you can come out of this meeting the TRUE WARRIOR AND WINNER that you are?

I just love when someone understands this stuff... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Hey Mark,

I read the psalms last night that you gave me the other day. I really look forward to when you give me those scriptures to read it helps to center me and focus me where I am at. I admire the way you have learned them. I hope to do that one day, but it will take so much work.

One of the strongest scriptures or passages I like to read is Isaiah 46:10-13
I foretell the end from the beginning
And from the start, things that had not occurred
I say: My plan shall be fulfilled
I will do all I have purposed
I summoned that swooping bird from the East
From a distant land, the man for my purpose
I hae spoken, so I will bring it to pass
I have designed it, so I will completel it
Listen to Me, you stubborn of heart ("who have lost heart"
Who are far from victory
I am bringing My victory close
I shall not be far

I hold on to this one tightly like all the ones you have given me.

Thank you.

He is good isn't he.

Hi Queenie,

3:30 you're time. 6:30 east coast time.



See with this you assume that because he is not the one reaching out that he doesn't get anything out of it. The point I'm trying to make is that he hasn't had to reach out because you always beat him to it. Hence meting an EN. In Plan B that will be gone.
I hope I'm making sense.

I just want to know what he did with the TMTS that came here a couple months ago all out of hope and with no plan or idea of how to get one... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

Mark