Mimi, I just meant that his laughter seemed genuine. I did ask him if he enjoyed the evening. HE said he did, that he enjoyed playing pool, and that the meal was really good.

Believe it or not, I was just making an observation. I did ask.

Also, I just talked to PWC about going out. He wants to go see a cover band of the Beatles. He did not ask me because of the venue. It's his place of employment, where both of his A partners worked. It's a huge trigger. He also did not ask because my sister had not planned on having DS later in the evening, and this would require such. I told him that I would be willing to call her and ask (she said okay, BTW).

I told him that I would like him, still, to ask me about these things. HE said he was going to go, regardless, even if it meant going alone. I told him that I love the Beatles (he knows this), and would like to go with him, that I think it would be fun.

I HONESTLY, do think it will be fun.

How'd he come to the point of saying this? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

How did that make you FEEL when he said that?

Did you tell him?

Right after I asked him about the concert that I overheard him talking about. He said that he didn't plan on asking me because of the venue, and was going to go even if it was alone. He asked my brother to go, who did not seem enthused about it (PWC's words).

When he said it, I felt, hmmmm, less sad than insignificant. I told him I felt sad about him not talking to me about it.

Mimi, this is our norm. HE ASSUMES that I wouldn't or won't do this or that, so he doens't bother to ask, and makes decisions on his own about outtings. I don't find out until he's nearly out the door.

I'm trying to change me, but I cannot change him.

I recognized the need to ask and did, and then had a conversation about wanting him to ask regardless of what he THOUGHT to be true; to allow me to speak for myself. Also, to allow him to ask for what he wants.

From our conversation last weekend, he stated he didn't WANT to spend time with me, so it stands to reason that he would go without me.

I'm trying to open the lines of communication. I'm doing my part.

AS I learn, I'll employ the new methods. I'm willing to make these changes, and to be honest and open.

Silent:

I think it would be FUN as well.

But I agree that his response "HE said he was going to go, regardless, even if it meant going alone." was rather ???

Was he talking about going with your Bro?

Was he hoping to run into former A partners? Or are they all gone from working there now?

So.

Have you bought the tickets yet?

Two of them?

And then said: "You don't have to go alone!"

Just thinking!

LG

LG,

HE was not thinking of asking me at all.

His former A partners no longer work there.

No tickets bought, he gets a discount rate.

I'm actually thinking quite a bit about that conversation.

I really do think it would be fun. Here's the thing, I was not asked to go, still not asked after I talked to him. I just said that he doesn't have to go alone, and I would love to go. He said, 'okay'. That isn't an enthusiastic okay, either.

I never have liked to go where I'm not wanted/needed.

In PWC's case, he's said I'm not wanted. Needed? I really can't answer that.

It's OK for you to say: "I would like for you to ASK ME to go out with you rather than you going alone. THAT'S WHAT A HUSBAND AND WIFE DO!" I (said BOLDLY) want to WORK ON OUR MARRIAGE." Yes, you can only work on yourself BUT you can SAY what YOU WANT AND HOW YOU FEEL.



I would tell him how YOU FEEL about HIM not wanting to spend time with you. I would tell him "THAT'S MEAN", IMO. If he can spend time with YOUR BROTHER, why not YOU? What could it hurt?

Mimi, I said all of this this past weekend. Believe me, he is fully aware of how I feel. I can't recount everything said, but this...




Is almost verbatim what I said to him this weekend. I did say that this behavior was MEAN. I told him it made me sad, and I did say 'what could it hurt to spend time together?'; his response was that that's all fine and good, but he had to WANT to spend time with me, and he does not.

I don't know how much more plain he could be. This is why I was talking about ending this recovery, and separating. I can tell him everything about how things affect me. I AM open and honest. I can't BE more clear.

He would RATHER spend time with anyone else, Mimi. This is what I've been getting at.

I just don't know how it is possible that a couple can recover under these conditions, and I don't know that I am willing to continue trying. I feel like a doormat. How is that healthy? I make changes, with him in mind, but I make changes for the better, for me. I do feel better.

These changes have given me the chance to hear his truth and allow it to be so. I don't believe he doesn't mean what he is saying, even if you say it's withdrawal, it seems pretty serious. I have never been faced with such a wall before.


I've done the do. I've been honest and open, and talked about what we can TRY in order to feel more connected. I've asked him what he feels we can do. He says he doesn't WANT to DO. I've told him that his input is of the utmost importance in this process.

This is not the sign of a man that loves his wife, Mimi. At least, it sure as h3ll doesn't FEEL like it.

You're right, SL.

I hadn't grasp the extent of his HOSTILITY until I read that.

Even if he isn't feeling it, he could TRY.

My H at least did that....

IMO, he's trying to set you up to be the BAD GUY...make YOU FLIP OUT and SLIT SHIRTS...KWIM????

It does seem PA as you guys have been saying all along.

I would let him know that you SEE that HE IS NOT TRYING.

I would let him know that you know that there is no chance of RECOVERY under such conditions.

But make it clear that YOU KNOW that it is a CHOICE that HE is making NOT TO AT LEAST TRY and that you that you can feel good about YOURSELF because YOU put forth the effort and he IS NOT. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

Then Let him go..BE CHEERY..HEAD UP..CHEST OUT..GODDESS MODE...

(Calmly, assertively): "I see what you are doing, PWC..not going to let you bring me down"....

Don't say anything about DIVORCE..just let it sit...

Address though how it is "WRONG" and "MEAN" for him to CHOOSE to go alone.

Address this ASSERTIVELY yet CALMLY.

Done and done, Mimi.

I have told him that HE is hindering us, that I do not see recovery happening under these conditions. I stopped short of saying I was giving up, but I FEEL like I am. That must show on the outside.

Yes, he is setting me up. I have told him that, but I have also said that I have done all that I believe is humanly possible, under these conditions, to make steps TOWARD him, and that he continually pushes me away.

I really am just so tired of this. I'm sad for my son, but not for me. I would rather be alone than with someone who does not WANT me. I deserve to be wanted.

I have told him that I see what he is doing, he denies he doing anything (why would anybody admit to sabotage?), and I get frustrated, finish the conversation and walk away.

You see, I told him about that shirt and how it made me feel PRIOR to this past week. He doesn't remember, probably because I was not RAGING. I'm not interested in that anymore. It's exhausting.

So PERSONAL RECOVERY...it is...

Make a DEAL with yourself that HE WILL BE THE ONE TO LEAVE...he's already left anyways....

DON'T LET HIM SET YOU UP...

What can YOU do TODAY to continue to UPLIFT YOUR SPIRITS????

GOOD. I think that's the setup. PWC: "I don't know what you're so angry about?"..as he walks out the door to go to the concert... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

Already done.

He's not going anywhere right now, but I told him it's his decision. I enumerated all that I have and am willing to do with a WILLING partner in recovery.

I can spend time with my son, and just tend to me. I think I'll take a bath...

S/L:

You overheard a conversation with PWC and Bro.

You asked your H about his conversation.

Expressd your desire to GO to the concert WITH HIM.

And he would still rather go alone.

Seems that either:

1. Your plan A and recovery is working well, and HE HAS to keep YOU OUT.

2. He's so Passive-Agressive, he would make Mulan blush.

3. He doesn't really have a CLUE what he's doing, and is floundering around trying to save face.

Even if he gets discounted tickets, YOU should be going.

DS is in good care.

You planned ahead.

You should GO.

Show HIM Miss Lightening Bolt that he remembers.

Because UNTIL he leaves, HE is CHOOSING you.

Just my .02

LG

I don't see this, LG??? What do you mean? It sounds like more of #2 to me.

The problem is LG, I'm tired of going where I'm TOLD I'm not wanted.

Should or not, he has to ask me now. I'm finished with this line.

I am not diagnosing anyone here, so let's just assume that he's being honest.

I told him that it seemed as if, by his INACTION, he doesn't WANT me, or to recover. He said that's not true.

I'm just not interested in guessing anymore, and doing what could amount to all of the wrong things. I have been at this a long time now guys. He's got to commit. I will take no less. Maybe that's a deal breaker, but it's partly MY deal.

I want to go. That's been made clear, more than once today. He still has yet to ask me or say that he WANTS me to go.

Look, it takes two. I am doing all that I can. I KNOW that now. I have been making excuses for why he cannot commit. NO more. He has to figure out why he hasn't committed and choose, YES, CHOOSE RECOVERY!.

I have stated that I go no further without a real commitment, in whatever way he can voice it or show it.

I made it clear that I NEED MORE.

Again, this is my choice. I have chosen recovery all of this time. I have committed. I am still committed, with a willing partner.

Until he leaves, he either choosing not to decide, doesn't have a place to go YET, OR he chooses me. It's not that cut and dry, LG, not with his track record. I'm not willing to give him the benefit of the doubt anymore.

I have said nothing about him moving out, or divorce. I have only stated that *I* will not continue going in circles.

If it's a concert that YOU want to go to and YOU would personally enjoy by all means GO..whether he goes or not..get all pretty and get there...