CONCERTS are FUN!!

Then what IS true, in his mind?

This isn't fair to you, fog or no fog.

As you said, he's leaving you guessing (in addition to all the heavy lifting). You are standing there with the 800 lb. sofa in your arms and he's standing there going, "hmmmm...should it go here...no, wait, there...??"

Meanwhile your back is breaking.

Drop the sofa. Tell him once he decides for certain where he wants it to go, that you'll be happy to move it to the right spot....together, one on each end, sharing the load.

Ummmm...that sounds like a boundary...not a deal breaker.

You are not willing to give your whole self to a relationship in which the other party makes only a marginal investment.

Your boundary is that a marriage requires a full investment by both parties. Both fully committed, both meeting ENs, POJA, etc.

This isn't you trying to control him. This is you owning what YOU need--what you require--from a marriage, and letting him own his own choice.

If he does not have a similar vision of a marriage, then you (as a couple) have a serious problem indeed.

What do I know? Where's the shovel? I admit that I am highly, highly irritated at PWC. I can't give advice. What mimi said resonated with me, though. The man needs to put up or shut up. [censored] or get off the pot. I don't know enough about boundaries, but someone could probably help you to frame this issue clearly, in a way that you could communicate it to PWC.

Draw a line in the sand...not as a way to control, but to provide you BOTH with greater clarity on what you want and need, with understanding of how willing he is to meet those wants/needs, and hopefully with some resolution.

Unless you are okay with the status quo, which you may be. I don't mean to presume that you are ready to stake your claim.

I am SO not one to give advice.

ETA: Sorry for venting about your sitch on your own thread...(((((SL))))) Good thing sd has the shovel.

Sounds like she's said enough.

I hope she's getting ready for the concert.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Sis,

Thanks bunches for chiming in.

It is a boundary.

I agree that he has his own life to live and choices to make and have said as much. I have let him go, not in the sense of pushing him out the door, but in the sense of a healthy relationship. This has to be his choice. If he feels like he has no choice, he's got some thinking to do.

Concerts are oodles of fun. If he doesn't want me to go, I would prefer to just go to the movies. The venue of the concert is veritably safe, but that area of town is not. If it was a concert that I had chosen, then that would be different, but it wasn't.

A movie....so whatcha gonna go see?

Hope you're going!!

Continue to focus on YOU and he will be the BIG LOSER, sadly, in the long run...

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

I want to go see Beowulf.

I took a bath and feel nice and calm and soothed. Now, DS is in there, playing with his toys. He self entertains so well, I'm taking cues from him.

Gotta love kids! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

And you are blessed with your son...

Even my H and grown-up sons can't SELF-ENTERTAIN... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

We went to meet his teacher this week, for parent/teacher conferences, and she said she just loved him. He makes up songs, singing happily to himself. She said he is one of the happiest kids she's ever seen.

His 'self entertaining' gets in the way of independent classwork time, he's always the last to finish, but that's because he's making up stories and songs, playing with his crayons like medievil soldiers, or Star Trek Jedi. She told us to foster that in him. I plan on it.

I am blessed, Mimi, for that I am SURE.

WOW!! That's so GREAT to HEAR!!

And if he's anything like our sons, how he is NOW is the way he will be...

My BOYS, though, were always SOOO BUSY, wanting to PLAY OUTSIDE...and they ended up being big-time ATHLETES...and me being so GIRLY-GIRLY...I tried to make them sit still and use their IMAGINATION in PLAY..never worked...

Ended up going to the concert. Those guys did a really great job! They really sounded like the Beatles. They were also all very good musicians. I thought I was going to lose it when they played "Yesterday", but I kept it together.

It's been a very strange weekend. After the concert, we went to have a nosh before going home. We talked quite a bit, about my mom, his mom, his half brother, dad, etc. and so on. Talked about music and movies, as usual.

Since then, it's just been more of the same, just kinda lazin' around the house. No real interaction between the two of us. I'm not ignoring him, but I'm not fawning over him, either.

I think ye ole love bank is near empty.

I'm not quite sure what to do from here. I am taking care of myself. I'm still cooking and cleaning, something I would do no matter what. I'm still talking and there is no open hostility.

I have been honest and open with PWC about many of my needs and desire for a happy marriage, for the both of us. I have made it clear that I cannot know what I'm doing WRONG unless he opens up and tells me . I cannot know what's working without his participation. I cannot know what's going on in his head.

So, I have a roommate. What to do at this point? Keep on keepin' on.

I have a Christmas party on the 14th that I am looking forward to . It's our annual work PROM. It's loads of fun! My next task is to find something to wear. As long as I can wear sexy high heels, I'm good to go.

I think it's GREAT that you went to the concert.

If I were you, I would schedule a session with Jennifer.

I think YOU are doing GREAT!!

I was just thinking about scheduling with Jennifer. I'm not quite given up on the effort for recovery. I recognize that the last two weeks have been a time of growth for me. I have begun to really open myself up, without fear, and without expectation. I'm looking to be honest.

It has taken me quite a bit of time to become 'buyerly', but I think I started down that path this weekend. When we were out at the concert venue, having some drinks (I had champagne, yyyyyum!), PWC made a joke about something that offends me, and I said so, instead of just sitting there and listening. He said, "It's just a joke", and I said "Yes, well, right now, it's just not funny to me; it hurts me, each time you 'joke' about this subject".

I would have gotten angry before, or just stuffed it and rode along with the joke.

We talked about this and that. I REALLY enjoyed myself, because I wasn't just doing it for him, or our M, but I was doing it for me. I WANTED to enjoy and have fun, so I did. I AM my own worst enemy.

You will be much more ATTRACTIVE to him NOW as you develop increased INNER STRENGTH and CONFIDENCE....and what will be more important to YOU is your self-valuing and SELF-RESPECT...

I just can't believe it took me this long to get BACK to that confidence. I didn't realize how STRIPPED I was of self-value, self-respect.

It's like rebuilding.

As a BS...we have so many expectations about recovery.

We imagine that "At LAST!" we'll have our partner back and willing to work.

The problem is, it takes a broken selfish person to cheat - and thats what you get back. Very rarily do we see an enthusiastic WS return home, ready to help a BS heal.

I like Sis's 800lb sofa. I'll take it a bit farther...

Who choose to pick it up? Your husband couldn't force you to lift that whole thing by yourself...

So put the dang thing down - you choose to pick it up, you can choose to put it down.

Stop expecting anything.

Work on you. Practice being honest - but DETACH from the outcome.

In my home, alcohol is ever present. I hate watching my husband pour himself a drink.

I learned to express that hurt and pain openly and honestly.

I often say: Honey, I am so afraid you are killing yourself with that stuff.

I do not EXPECT: Oh gosh, BR, you are SO RIGHT! I'll pour this down the drain right now and get myself to an AA meeting!

Sometimes, he ignores me. Sometimes he protests that he has almost stopped drinking and this is the first in weeks... *snort*

Regardless...because I detach from my expectation of his response...I can feel good about the fact that I was honest, direct and open about my point of view. What he does about my expression is HIS PROBLEM.

You need to do the same here. I agree with LG, as long as he is home, he IS choosing you.

Detach, let go of expectations. Work on your buyer skills without expecting a specific reaction from HIM.

Think of it as practicing for your marriage when he decides to get on board...or practicing for the next relationship one day in the future.

Either way, YOU gain something from this, regardless of his behavior.

Be happy. Express your truth openly and honestly. Go to concerts, go to movies, pamper yourself - LIVE and LOVE your life - leave him an open invitation to join you - but do not slow down to wait for him to get on board.

Stop wasting your time trying to figure him out.

Oh, and next time you overhear his plans to go somewhere without you - offer to go, don't wait to be asked. Let him say NO I DON'T WANT YOU. Let him shoulder the responsibility.

I think the way you brought it up to him, left you wide open for him to leave the responsibility and onus on you.

BR, thanks for bringing that analogy over to my thread. You are right, I kept trying to lift that couch, expecting him to help me move it.

I really did drop the couch with a giant thud this weekend. If I want it moved, I'll get some furniture gliders and take care of it.

I am not trying to figure him out anymore. I really did figure out a lot about me this past two weeks. I feel so much more calm. I have been open and honest. I feel good for not shouldering anything anymore. There really is no need.

At the time I brought the concert thing up, I did invite myself, but I THOUGHT about much of what I posted, about not being wanted, etc. There will be no more of that, either.

My best friend came to me and asked me if she could watch my kid so that I could go see "Beowulf". I was floored. It was such an honest and sweet gesture. I'm taking her up on it. I am letting PWC know that I would like to spend the time we have 'free' to catch the movie. His choice to come or do something else.

I stopped pampering myself as soon as Plan B ended. I had been doing such a good job of that, too. I think I'm going to enjoy that part, again.

Really great stuff, BR. Thanks for the pushes in the right direction all of this time. I just didn't 'get' it. I was so wrapped up in what HE wasn't GIVING me, I forgot to give to myself.

I'm finally grasping all of this stuff. I am finally grasping what it is to be a BUYER. It's going to take some time to change the behavior, so I'll change the actions first.

It's really a relief to have you and Mimi here posting.

I'm still IN recovery. This all feels sort of strange right now.

SL - just so you know, I saw *Beowulf* right after it opened (3D and IMAX!) It's a fantastic fantasy film, but it's also a powerful metaphor for infidelity and especialy for OC. Those things are not glamourized at all but they are front and center. If you're okay with that, then enjoy a real spectacle. Catch it in 3D/IMAX if you can.
Mulan

Same here..I say this almost EVERYDAY...

JOIN THE CLUB!!

Did I hear a GODDESS say HIGH HEELS????

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Thanks Mulan,

I did read your thread about this movie, but I'm still looking forward to spectacle. It looks visually stunning.

I'm actually getting used to how infidelity is, pretty much, on every show and in every movie you can think of. It's just not NEARLY as glamorous in real life. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />