NOPE, I believe it working it out, but we all know that it takes both of us believing and trying. I have been trying to lead by example, but I don't see a lot of change in this particular need. In others, I see more effort, and this is probably why I keep trying.




Unfortunately, no I'm not willing to live with it. I'm no longer in a place where I can live with the uncertainty and a lack of commitment. That's just me. To me, this is allowing weakness into an already crumbling foundation, and not being willing to shore it up, make it stronger.

I would accept a reason behind his reluctance and lack of communication in this area, IF he were currently doing something to better understand it and himself. He's not.

This is why I want to get to a better emotional state before bringing all this up. It's a heavy subject for him. It's not for me, but leading these discussions takes a lot of effort on my part.

Reading my thread, you will see this SAME subject come back over and over again. It sticks out and needs some real answers. Maybe he doens't wanna and knows that this will spell D, and doesn't want that either. NOT doing anything about it is NOT the right answer, though.

I'm going to try to show the affections, and ask the questions once again. I do believe that he has come thru withdrawal, but only recently. There have been marked changes since about a month ago (after our last heavy conversation). We'll see.

See this is why I need to jump in every once in a while.

To take the burden off of you. LOL.

I have read your thread I know it was/is/always will be unless it is addressed.

I see in you a person with a lot of reslove that is willing to try to push that rock up the hill. You have done a lot of pushing.

Now you need help.

Lets be realistic. Nobody "CAN'T" be affectionate. They may not want or like or feel the need but they CAN be with a little effort.

So this is not on you. It is on him.

In my experiance I didn't get the results I wanted until I clearly articulated it was a deal breaker for me with my intnetion of leaving. It wasn't a threat. It was simple, I had a NEED, fill it we have a chance. Don't fill it and we don't have a chance.

If you need time or help I will give that to you. What I won't give is permission to not give me what I need.

I do believe this is his issue. I am going to articulate myself better. The marriage we currently have is not for me. I WANT more. I NEED more from my man.

I'm willing to take baby steps, but unwilling to sit still, letting the moss grow. YUCK! That's probably why, nearly every month, I sit and bring things up, ask questions and try to get to the bottom of why he's doing what he IS OR ISN'T doing.

I don't want to know how he's TRYING, i want to talk about and hash out how we are going to make this thing happen, even if it's two years in the making. I need to see initiative from him in this area.

Ouch. I hope this was the exception rather than the rule.

This was the exception, but it was behavior that PWC exhibited in the past with DS, before the A's.

It reminds me of siblings, one being younger and hanging on to the older one, and the older sibling feeling burdoned by the younger one. I KNOW this behavior, because I was the younger sibling. I'm not saying he acts like this all of the time, but he does seem burdoned by the world at large, and that is unattractive to me.

It seemed like falling into old behaviors.

So now the focus is on the touch and intimacy issue. The most important issue.

Other smaller issues can stay unresolved for now. Like possibly falling inot old behaviors.

The reason being is is he can't/won't commit to your #1 EN then otehr issues are irrelevant anyway.

You really only have one issue. The most important issue. If that can never be resolved resentment will always be there.

If that issue is resolved to your liking then you can worry about the rest later.

Give him a sole focus and maybe that will help.

Good luck. Oh an happy holidays.

Oh SL the more I read your thread the more I realize how VERY similar our H's reactions/nonreactions are. SCAREY. I feel for you.

Have you asked your H how he sees your M? Ok, needing work, or does he just exist in it, or does he look at you weird like what are you talking about?

I don't think I've seen this forgive me asking if it is posted somewhere, when did the A end, and how long have you been in 'recovery'?

The behavior is something that triggers me, as PWC has said many times, in the past, how he felt FORCED into parenthood (like I stole his sperm or something, WHATEVER!). Now, I can't force him to do anything, but the remark still sits in the back of my brain, with MY old behaviors and thoughts, telling me that I'm not good enough and that I'm deficient for wanting a child or wanting MORE. I know it's crap, and that much of this is his deficiency, something he will carry with him into any relationships.

His relationship with his son is his to deal with. I can't MAKE him be more receptive to others' needs. It's a CHOICE to think of others, IMO. It's a choice to care for them, never a burden, IMO.

mvg, I have asked something along those lines in our past conversations, probably sometime in October, maybe earlier? ANyway, I couldn't tell you, because he is not clear on this. Again, I talk to him and get the picture of non-commital.

His first A ended (when OW went to NC with him) around October '05. The second A ended May 5, 05, when we agreed to recovery.

Silent:

This line:


Why?

What happened here?

I mean, you were married for 5 years before DS came along.

Fatherhood is scarey. I just spent the last hour at the High School Counslors office regarded 15yoDS's grades.

So.

Motherhood is scarey TOO. Even more so. THE child grows in you, and is dependant on you after birth. Many Husbands/Fathers fail in these early years. (LG>>> Raises Hand) But I THOUGHT I was doing well. Flamingo had a different opinion. And hers was the one that mattered here!

PWC was 3 years younger than me when our respective children were born.

Maybe that is a larger gulf than I imagined.

Maybe he is just more of the party guy.

And that is great, but to truly party, you really have to feel no responsibility in life.

And here we are.

Now the need for RC comes to the forefront. And I know about your efforts that way. You have done much, and you hope for MORE from PWC. But the blank stare, or um, oh, maybe not, I don kow' stuff can really grate.

Are there any more shirts in the house?

That SEEMED to spark something.

IN both of you.

What to do? Start with the back/neck rubs as LA proposed.

Maybe that can start the affection and touching thing moving along.

Silent, after re-reading my earlier post, it was kind of harsh. And swerved from topic to topic somewhat. Sorry. Somethings occurred to me as I typed along and I went with my thoughts.

I'm sorry.

LG

Don't be sorry LG. All these posts help me to get back to the nitty gritty. THe ealier post got me to think, and be more firm in my position. I don't think I would HARP on this particular subject if it weren't a deal breaker for me. It's become more and more apparent as I move along and grow.

As far as why PWC feels the way he does or DID is not for me to guess. He's said that he doesn't feel the same about being a father NOW. The behavior triggered me. I let it stand alone, though, as it's own subject, trying not to compare it to the past.

PWC wasn't feeling well, so he stayed home from work. He invited his BIL over to hang out, but BIL didn't show up until after 3PM. They were in full guitar tilt at that point. Then DS comes home and is EXCITED that daddy and BIL are hanging out and wants to hang out too, play some games, too, wanting to be the center of attention, as many chilren do.

I was largely ignored, too, but that's no reflection on me, really.

PWC is definitely the party kind of guy. He likes to stay up really late on the weekends (4AM). I'm not looking for the next big party, but the party for two. I can stay up late for the right occassion, and HAVE.

I think the neck/back rubs are a good idea. I also have practiced and will continue mvg's suggestions on her thread, to do 'fly by's' by kissing him, or touching his hand or his back, giving him a little squeeze and walking away. As LA said, sometimes I don't want to, but I still do, to get in the habit, until it turn to a desire.

I just don't get what he's doing about his sexual needs..from a physical point of view...for six whole months...

Is he ever MIA?

I'm pretty sure it wouldn't take him a looooong time to accomplish the task at hand (ha, I made a funny). HE is never MIA, but it's also not something that takes loads of time to just get done, if that's all your looking for.

these are questions I plan to get to the bottom of. I have begun TALKS on the subject. We'll see where they go. I've told him to take some time to think about what I have revealed to him, about my needs, and how important they are to ME. I was positive, but very honest. The need for affection, admiration, financial support and RC are very high for me right now; they have always been right up there at the top, for as long as i can remember.

Anyway, I hope to at least begin peace talks soon.

Mimi, I know that I have been taking care of myself for a WHOLE SIX MONTHS, so it stands to reason (barring any physical issues he hasn't revealed--it's a possibility) that he's been taking care of himself.

I am happy that I've mustered the courage to really bring this to the front again. I've told him that I want to start working on getting to that fabulous marriage we both want. I was very positive. I believe that we can do this, but I recognize that it requires his participation.

I don't see in him someone who wants to leave, I see someone who doesn't believe, and who allows his fear to keep him rutted. It's a shame he can't get the thwacks I've gotten here, to own myself, my actions and my thoughts. To TAKE ACTION.

When he got home last night, I gave him a nice big hug, kissing him on the neck, welcoming him home from a rough day at work. It was nice to do it. One small step for SL...

Emotions are on an even keel today. I'm not weepy or angry. I think the hormonal standoff is over for now.

LG will be happy to know that I sat and watched DS and PWC play their guitar hero game. It was a much better experience without the LOUDNESS and DS got lots of one on one attention from his dad. It fills me up to see them laugh together.

^5 SL! I'm glad things are a bit better. I'm happy YOU are feeling more positive too.

You can't keep a good woman down, mvg! No way, no how.

(I've been listening to my Mary J. Blige this mornin'. Can ya tell?)

So how come you can't do this EVERY DAY?

This is what I'm saying, Mimi. This is going to be MY every day. This is the decision I made yesterday. I will give affection, because I want to, and want to feel connected to him.

It felt good to exchange body heat, to touch him, to connect in that way. He was receptive, which helps a great deal. The emotional abyss I found myself in the last couple of days didn't help me focus, so I decided to journal a bit, and found clarity.

The physical issue is still there, and PWC will have to step it up a bit, but that wont' stop me from doing my part, from practicing what I preach.

LOL...She'll do a lot for you with attitude! One of my favorites!!!!

Talk about empowerment!

GO SL!!!

Her new CD was released on the 18th, and from what I've heard so far, is very positive. I often wonder what got her to this higher plane. THe one that we are all working on; that positive place, where happiness lies within. When I feel down, I listen to her. She speaks to me.

Mimi is my Mary J. on these boards. She always has an uplifting message, and gets me to tap into my inner strength. I don't talk about it much, because the relationship is new and very personal right now, but I believe that God had something to do with Mimi coming to me.

I'm blessed with some wonderful friends here, Rin. Don't you feel the same?

MOST definitely...best thing I ever did was come here...

This was my starting point in so many ways...my first friends...b/c I didn't have any at the time...not real ones...

...trusting untrustworthy people...

plenty of that!

It's great to have family here! You guys fill me with warmth and love!