This statement alone implied to me that back was likely in a mental health facility in her recent past. Whether she escaped or checked herself in and out is unclear.

Sorry Justuss...edit away. I am convinced that at the very least, back has an agenda on this board that has nothing to do with marriage building concepts or resurrecting a relationship with her XH.

First off, I don't mean to inflame, just ask a question hoping for a response that makes some sense to me.

Let me state up front that I am not a "believer", but I do have a question that I've never understood.

For those of you that "believe", do you really believe that there is a being (good or evil) that is so powerful as to affect the lives of individuals above their own self-control, that would actually "care" to do so?

IMHO, if there was such a being, with that much power, that they would never get involved with the minutae of our everyday lives. It would be just too much of a waste of their time to be involved in such trivial matters.

It has always seemed like such a cop-out to me to hear people avoid taking responsibility for their (or others) actions by claiming "the devil made me do it" or "it was God's will".

Exactly something I've been meaning to ask too.

How is "satan" involved in a WH unzipping his pants and boinking an OW? Seems more like unmet EN's, selfishness, weakness, or some other character flaws at work. To blame it on some external entity - real or imagined - seems like blameshifting to me.

YES!!



OK. I respect your opinion. You have a right to your opinion.

I choose not to defend or explain my religious beliefs.

I can't help others understand and accept my faith.

In my initial post, I was attempting to address that I personally would not have such a discussion with unbelievers.

MR-

There is a thought that God is all knowing and He has given us the ability to make choices. These choices we make should follow Gods law. If they do not, the offender will need to get that straight with God (repent). Which is what I tend to believe.

There is also another thought that says God is all knowing, and we do things because it is Gods Will. I do not believe this- otherwise we would be puppets. It is really Gods will that people suffered in the Hollucost, a child is beaten or we are victims of infidelity? I don't think God controled my FWH to cheat- that was his choice, it is Gods will for me to survive it, learn from it, and move forward.

Once again my two cents.
AM

What else do they have to do? They unravel a society or a world one family at a time, so they would be very much after the individuals.

By the little things great things fall. Law of Physics - a mountain in Utah made National Geographic news in 1983 - a mud slide followed by flooding state wide. But when the waters were gone and liability being assessed for loss of home and property, the railroad that was wiped out by the mountain was made liable because it removed just a little bit of the base of that mountain to make way for it's tracks...

We see here, a little bit of sinning causing a whole bunch of hurting and harm to society via broken families, broken finances - even the harm to the environment has been mentioned this week.

Just a little thing. You bet if there is a devil, he's involved in every minutae of an individual's life.

This could really get bogged down into religious discussion..because I follow the NEW TESTAMENT..and others may not...read Ephesians..which speaks of EVIL POWERS in the world...

I can't speak for anyone else's WS..my H was under the influence of EVIL..no excuse... because he did have FREE WILL.. and could have followed THE HOLY SPIRIT.. but that still does not mean that he was not under that influence..

So there's my 2 cents...

((((meremortal))))

Back triggers me immensely too...I'm sorry you are feeling like you are today...Wish I could give you a real hug!!! You take care...I really appreciate your posts here...

Blessings,

Mrs. W

See this is where I get all "wrapped around the axle" on this issue. Most of the "believers" don't know what they believe or "why" they believe.

How can anyone say "IF" it is this, then it "HAS" to be this way ... it simply makes no sense to a non-believer or to a believer for that matter. You don't even acknowledge that its factual, but if it is, then you proclaim to "KNOW" how it works.

I understand that people are very attached to their religious beliefs, and to them, all of this makes perfect sense, but it is all just mumbo-jumbo to a non-believer. Therefore, any time someone on these boards brings up religion, they just lost a good portion of the other posters, possibly even the one they are trying to help.

From my perspective, "IF" this board is going to allow the use of religion to help cure these real life problems, then its probably not the place for a non-believer (or non-christian) to seek help, because we see very "real" problems trying to be fixed with myth.

That is not to inflame, just point out how I see it.

I suppose the best practice for me is to read and study the parts that make sense and then bow out of any discussions involving the supernatural as a means to address these very real issues.

Mimi, I didn't intend to thread/jack, I've asked my question and will now leave your discussion to the believers.

Well, that's very sad..

That's how come I sometimes don't want to mention my beliefs OUT LOUD...

My religious beliefs are so much a part of who I am so if I leave that out you're not getting all of ME..It's like I'm telling you a lie...

Would you have me to HOLD BACK what I believe in?

I'm not judging you because you don't believe as I do..I am stating MY TRUTH..I am sharing WHO I AM...

MR, speaking as another "unbeliever", I think you're incorrect here. Generally, the "believers" are pretty good about asking first and preaching later. That was one thing I really liked about Mortarman; he was extremely polite about asking first - and would give reams of excellent non-religious help even if you weren't a "believer".

Thus to me it seems like the faith-based help usually goes to those who are willing to receive it in the first place. When lurking (which is what I do most of the time), if a thread becomes too religious in nature for my taste (or my ability to follow) I just stop reading. Simple as that.

OK, one more response, since you asked me a question.

I see two different scenarios with different answers:

1. If it is your thread, and you are seeking guidance based on your religious beliefs OR if another posters is seeking guidance on what to do while staying true to their religious beliefs, then I think your religious perspective is very pertinent.

HOWEVER,

2. If it is someone else's thread that has no mention of religion, then I think you are imposing your beliefs onto someone else by bringing up any religious beliefs or direction.

It's all about respect for others. You'll notice that on this thread, I did not criticize your beliefs. I said I didn't understand them and then gave instances where I saw contradictions, but I never said you were "foolish" or "sheep" for believing as you did, and you returned that respect by acknowledging my lack of beliefs, although you didn't agree with them.

Actually, I thought your initial response (paraphrasing) "I don't discuss the basis for my religious beliefs. They are my beliefs and I don't need to defend them", was great. That's the way it should be.

My problem comes from a few that want to impose their beliefs into most threads that they post to, or bring up religious aspects where the original poster never even opened up the subject.

It's all about taking the lead from the one seeking help. Surely we are all capable of talking about subjects in a non-religious manner, so why not help in a non-religious way if that's not part of the discussion, and then offer up our religious perspectives when there is a religious tone to the discussion.

That way you can stay true to your beliefs and who you are, without clouding the discussion with controversial material that isn't pertinent to the discussion.

I'm not 100% positive

But Back reminds me very much of:

laura_lee.

If so THIS OLD POST perhaps answers my initial burning question about how she came to be divorced. If it's her....SHE filed way back in 1997.

I am in no way revealling this information to hurt Back. I KNOW she is not well. If it's her may it only add to the context we all receive her with and seek to understand.

Mr. Wondering

I have to ask...

Why do you get soo worked up?

Why not just put the indivual on ignore?

-JKT

Wow, if someone posted like that TODAY they'd get shut down (speaking of all the sexual innuendo).

If people have nothing better to do than gossip... clearly, they have issues themselves they do not want to deal with... hurts and pains they do not acknowledge.

What can I do but pray for you?

God bless.

Laura Lee?

JKT...

Very good point. And the main reason why I personally believe that those who keep going on and on and on about things... have issues that are exactly what they are accusing others of having.

I think that if any of my bosses or any of my friends or family thought that I was "bi-polar"... I think they would let me know that... instead of being so loving and accepting and seeing/saying good things about me.

Just as beauty is in the eye of the beholder... so too is so much false accusation, gossip, and just plain obsessing.

Healthy people, imo, would just stop.

I have always been chosen to lead. I don't have an "average" personality. I don't want to be "average".

But to interpret the things these people have presumed, wild accusations... that they are trying to pass off as "fact" (including making crazy attempts to psychoanalyze me) are the works, imo, of people who just don't know how to let go.

I'm sure they've been very hurt in their lives. I guess I'll just need to be extra patient with them as I am with the truly bipolar (yet wonderful) young man I work with at work.

All I can do is pray for them and rise up above it.

God bless.

How's the weather up in your part of Michigan this evening Laura_Lee/Back???

Mrs. W