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Chrysalis,
Thank you for the info. In this case we are now dealing with adults but it started even in her teens.
The challenge now is to get her help. The problem is her husband is not experienced in this area and he is the only one close by to get her help. She has him currently believing we are the source of all her problems. He knows that is not true but doesn't have what it takes yet to stand up to her. She is about 8 years older than him.
Everyone that is acquainted with her situation wants to start at ground zero and perform their individual attempts to help. This has been going on for years and only recently has the family banned together more than ever seek help and now go backwards.
That is why I have allowed her to vent against me. I can handle her hurtful words because the truth of it all is already known to many. At this point we are helping educate her husband so he can get her the help she needs.
We received another barrage of e-mails from her yesterday and expect more this weekend. For now we are keeping quiet so as not to add to her chaos. Her husband is quietly being informed and the children are being cared for. His family is close by so that's a good thing.
As always, it's quite draining on most of us but we are surviving ok. It is an ordeal and a crisis but one we can handle with love, cooperation and prayer.
take care,
L.
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Orchid,
I hope she will get some help.
Chrysalis
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Kayla,
thanks for starting this thread.
we suffered for years not knowing FWH was bipolar.
he only got diagnosed when he attempted suicide during the height of his A. (with a bipolar OW, no less!)
thank heavens he's now home, on meds and seems to be doing well.
keep the info coming!!
hugs,
cgw
BW: me (52)
WH: him (51)
D Day #1: 8/14/04 (OW #1)
D Day #2: 12/10/05(OW #2)
M'd 28 yrs, together 32
DS: 25, 17; DD: 23
2004-05: False recovery(OW#1)
Plan A: he came back...
but is not committed to recovery.
Plan B: lived 10 months off & on w/OW#2
Plan D: nearly final except for mediation
Plan ME: Starting over with MY Life
Plan R: divorce stopped @ FWH request; Retrouvaille Weekend (2/07)
Plan Now:FWH committed & working hard on Recovery
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Kayla,
Agree bi-polar, BPD, and schitzophrenia do share a lot of symtpoms. It's hard to deliniate one from another. In my case my WxGF exhibited absurd anger, and was very manipulative and blameshifted everything. I felt like I was walking on eggshells and she was always asking me to do something and then criticizing me. I couldn't udnerstand her bevior and I realized that it was just bi-polar. The problem is that BPD comes with other disorders like OCD (Obsessive Compulsive disorder) or Anti-social disorder or anxiety disorder. My mother suffered from BPD- narcassistic at that. I could probably write a book on the subject. Unfortunately. I think the childhood abuse that I suffered probably brought this on. One of the girls I work with has a stepsister who is very bipolar, probably type I. A few weeks ago she went to a car dealership and wrote a check for a brand new vehicle, when of course she didn't have the money in the bank. My friends father, who is the girls stepfather had to buy the vehicle himself from the dealership to keep her from going to jail. Unfortunately she's not med compliant so this is probably not the last episode she will have. I thank God that I do not suffer the way she does. It's funny 411. I was in the hospital after my marriage broke up- after being wayward and all of the things I did back then- well I can see that I was probably having my first full blown episode. I don't want to blame my poor actions completely on being bipolar because I did make poor choices but I can see how it contributed to everything. When I was in the hospital not one professional told me I was bipolar- they all said PTSD, anxiety and depression. I still struggle. As a matter of fact tonight is a bad night for me. I just try to remind myself that tomorrow or the next day I will probably feel better. Also be patient once you start meds. They sometimes have to be switched alot to get the right combination. This was the most frustrating thing to me about the whole disease- the trying of the meds. I wanted something to help, but not something that would make me gain a ton of weight or make me lose my sex drive. Effexor made me manic and I didn't sleep for four nights. Paxil killed my sex drive. Lamictal didn't work completely for me. My Pdoc and I finally settled on Abilify. Once I got stabilized she backed the dose down to 2mgs every other night. This seems to be a good dose for me. I have some Xanax to take as needed- but I rarely take them. Does your GF rewrite the truth? Because that was a big thing my mom did. I mean, I'm sure if she's wayward she's rewriting the truth of your relationship <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> but did she do it before about other things?
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I'm one here who is a parent to one or more children affected by bipolar/similar mood disorders. I've made it my business to learn as much as I can, including meeting many of the leading researchers in pediatric bipolar disorder. Here is some of what I have learned:
These are brain illnesses. The people who have them suffer a great deal, and as an added bonus often cause a lot of suffering for everyone around them.
They are genetic in origin. Usually some environmental trigger sets off the first episode in a genetically vulnerable person. Some of the researchers are talking now about the triggers being something so small as a few seconds' oxygen deprivation during delivery.
The suicide rate for untreated bipolar may be as high as 20%.
There is a lot of hope with medication and good health practices (regular sleep, exercise and diet.) The best thing you can do for a loved one with bipolar is encourage them to take their meds and get their sleep. By the time a bipolar is missing nights of sleep there is a serious episode rearing its ugly head. The researchers have been able to document improved brain function on fMRI exams in bipolar teens who take their meds. That is very hopeful.
If there is a family history of alcoholism or drug addiction or depression, there is an increased risk for bipolar. If you have a child who has hours-long rages,violent behavior, talk of suicide, extreme irritablity, unusually decreased need for sleep, it is a good idea to have the child evaluated by a qualified child psychiatrist. The doctor should be told of any "interesting" family history. I am not talking about a short episode of a bad mood that goes away. I am talking about extremes of behavior and temperament that cause concern over time.
Not every child who has symptoms consistent with bipolar disorder will go on to develop the full-blown adult disorder. Most will struggle a lot, but do better with appropriate medical care. Many will also develop symptoms from the other spectrums, such as the autism spectrum, or OCD. Many will develop drug and alcohol addictions.
This is a terribly sad brain disorder. My son teaches me about courage every single day.
But if I don't take responsiblity for his care and treatment, who will? It isn't going away. Wow, great post. Bless his heart. The struggle is so hard. I'm glad he's got such a great advocate in his mom. I'm so sorry that he suffers from this.
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Hi Chrysalis-
Thank you for your beautiful post. I was wondering if I could get your take on something? My little brother is bipolar (he's 35 now). My parents are really struggling with how to handle him. Since he's an adult, they don't feel they can force him to take his medicine or attend therapy. They live near me, but visit him about once a month (750 miles away).
He's married with three sons. He has never held a job for longer than a few months, although his wife has a steady teaching job. Teachers do not get paid enough, and they struggle with bills. My brother spends money like crazy, has had multiple affairs, and is addicted to oxycontin (prescription painkiller). His wife ignores this behavior, and won't discuss it when someone tries to talk to her about it.
My parents are retired; they used their nest egg to pay my brothers' bills (mortgage, daycare, utilities, groceries, and to bail them out when they reach the limit on their cards.) This concerns me, but they don't want to stop paying the bills because they don't want the grandchildren to go without a comfortable home or food.
I worry about everyone. It seems like they're "enabling" but I can see their point about the children suffering if they withdraw their financial support. Do you have any advice?
Thanks in advance,
~Saturn
Last edited by SaturnRising; 12/09/07 08:45 AM.
Me: 45
Him: 47
married 23 years
Two wonderful sons
D-day for my EA: 8/15/04
D-day for his PAs: 8/16/06
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SR,
Under current laws it is very difficult to force an otherwise competent adult to comply with paychiatric treatment unless he is a danger to himself or others (enough of a danger to be put on an involuntary hold), or unless he gets in legal trouble and is required to comply with treatment as a condition of probation.
The Oxycontin issue is troubling. Why do you say he is addicted? Is he going to more than one doctor to get meds, or taking more than prescribed doses? If his behavior around these meds is troubling, there is nothing to stop a family member from notifying the prescribing doc of his behavior. The doc won't answer questions, but he can certainly listen. If he is sticking to prescribed amounts from only one doctor you probably won't get anywhere.
What may work is incentives. If you take your meds, we'll help out with XXXX. If you keep your doc appointments for X amount of time, we'll pay off this credit card for you. Link his behaviors with relief from his circumstances. It is frustrating and you shouldn't have to treat an adult relative that way, but the reality is that the brain of a person with bipolar has problems with modulating responses to delayed gratification and needs a perceived reward or benefit to even be able to try.
Let me repeat that. Your brother's brain is not wired to be able to regulate mood, alertness, or pleasure without outside support. So a behavior that he perceives as being unpleasant is going to have to carry some big rewards. This is one reason many bipolars have addictions problems-- the pleasure centers of the brain are disregulated.
Think in terms of getting his Giver to the table by placating the Taker.
Curious as to why his wife will not discuss.
Chrysalis
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Thank you Chrysalis!
I don't think that the rest of the family knows about the oxycontin, unfortunately. When I visited him in August, he told me that he was worried because he couldn't stop taking it. It's from one doctor. He has a lot of physical complaints, and this doctor just fills the prescription for him whenever he requests. I told my Dad, and he turned white. He asked me not to tell my Mom because "it would kill her." Sometimes their reaction is hard for me; I'd prefer to have it in the open.
I think my sister-in-law was abused as a child. She knew what he was like- there were no surprises, and she still wanted to marry him. He is good-looking, charming, and intelligent- I think she prefers to just ignore his dark side; it may be better than what she's used to. I really wish she would talk about it, because I and my parents live so far away that we can't monitor the situation. If she was able to discuss it, then we would know more about what we can do and what incentives work better than others.
I do realize how much he suffers. No one would actively choose his life. And each time he spirals down, it's harder to dig out.
Thanks again Chrysalis- I'll try to work with my parents to form a plan with large rewards connected to challenges.
I hope your son continues to do well. He is very lucky to have you!
~Saturn
Me: 45
Him: 47
married 23 years
Two wonderful sons
D-day for my EA: 8/15/04
D-day for his PAs: 8/16/06
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Saturn, If your brother confided in you about the oxycontin, that is an opening for you, and that is good! You now can ask him how it is going when you see him privately. If he is still concerned, you could offer to go to the doctor with him to try to figure out another way to manage pain control (see, you aren't taking anything away form him, you are looking for a better way to gt him the relief he needs.) And if he will let you go to the doctor, jump on it.
If he sees you as an ally, you can do a lot more to help him than if he sees you as standing in the way of his getting what he wants.
Chrysalis
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Hang in there CW,
I, too am feeling down,
I've been lucky that my bi-polar hasn't been too debilitating. I'm starting meds in a two week outpatient program so they can monitor me each day.
My WxGf has been re-writing the truth problem is I can't think if it had been happening prior to the A.
Right now my WxGF and I aren't communicating properly. I ignored her attempts for a few days after she sent me two e-mails on Wed and Thursday. I called her yesterday and left a voicemail.
Still haven't heard anything yet, but I think she'll e-mail me tomorrow at work. If not she'll get a surpise when my message goes up that I'm away from work for 2 weeks.
BxBF 32 years
WxGF 30 years
D-Day 9/24/07
Break-up/separation 9/30/07
Plan A 9/30/07-11/7/07
Plan B 11/8/07
A over 12/4/07
NC since 12/16/07
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Bumping in case someone else has something to add.
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Chrysalis,
FWH went thru a manic spell recently and bought a lot of inventory he "needed" for his business. we are trying to pay down our bills and save for retirement. his credit cards are now higher than ever. can you (or anyone) help me brainstorm a positive carrot that I could offer him for working harder to pay down his debt? we've been thru this cycle countless times before and it frustrates me because I'm a saver & he's a spender...
thanks,
cgw
BW: me (52)
WH: him (51)
D Day #1: 8/14/04 (OW #1)
D Day #2: 12/10/05(OW #2)
M'd 28 yrs, together 32
DS: 25, 17; DD: 23
2004-05: False recovery(OW#1)
Plan A: he came back...
but is not committed to recovery.
Plan B: lived 10 months off & on w/OW#2
Plan D: nearly final except for mediation
Plan ME: Starting over with MY Life
Plan R: divorce stopped @ FWH request; Retrouvaille Weekend (2/07)
Plan Now:FWH committed & working hard on Recovery
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Chrysalis,
FWH went thru a manic spell recently and bought a lot of inventory he "needed" for his business. we are trying to pay down our bills and save for retirement. his credit cards are now higher than ever. can you (or anyone) help me brainstorm a positive carrot that I could offer him for working harder to pay down his debt? we've been thru this cycle countless times before and it frustrates me because I'm a saver & he's a spender...
thanks,
cgw I've seen it written by professionals before and I know first hand what my MIL should have done years ago. Bi-polars MUST give up control and access to money to a trusted family member. It should be a absolute boundary for every spouse that finds themselves in a relationship with a bi-polar. Unfortunately, a typical condition or characteristic of bi-polars is the inability to give up control of much of anything and/or to find ways around such control. Even when no manic, their personalities are typically dynamic and not prone to giving up control. One credit card with a low spending limit. No access to family bank accounts. Paychecks auto-deposited into said family bank accounts. Assets in their spouses name....etc. These precautions MUST be set up in advance of any manic episode because once they are there it's too late. Further, once set up they must be strictly adhered to. There is no leniency for good behavior because you can't predict the next cycle. My FIL typically cycled every 3 years into a very bad manic cycle. Surprisingly, due to the time in between of reasonableness and normalcy, the family was again stunned that "here we go again". In no time...everything turned to crap again and all the money this dynamic hard-working man had accumulated to dig themselves out of the previous episode was again gone. Precautions are MANDATORY if the bi-polar intends to maintain a relationship with you. YOU must be firm with your boundaries lest you become a volunteer for what you KNOW will happen. Mr. Wondering p.s.- I KNOW how maddening this can be and I have sympathy for all of you either living with this illness or living with someone with this illness. I also commend any and all bi-polars that have become self aware, take the medicine and follow through with the necessary adjacent counseling.
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CGW,
First of all, you might enquire about returning the excess inventory. The restocking fees may well be less than the interest charges.
If he is still manic, you are going to have a hard time. If he has gotten through the mania and either crashed or gotten to some remorse, it may be easier. Mr. W. is absoutely right about the forceful personalities and drive to keep control that many adults with bipolar display.
Chrysalis
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