I've never demanded that from her. I've told her it's what I want. I haven't given her any ultimatums. I've informed her of my needs, and now I'm waiting for her to meet them.


Well, she ENJOYED being used like an object by OM. She liked it. Besides, walking in and seeing her with OM did a little damage to me, too, and I'm still willing to have sex. I'm not very sympathetic in that department.


Yes, she has redeeming qualities. We all do.


My wife barely even knew OM, and they both kept it that way on purpose. They both made it clear that they had no interest in getting divorced or moving beyond "just occasional sex". My W had absolutely ZERO emotional investment in OM. She does not need to feel an ounce of love to have and enjoy sex.

I'm not demanding anything or trying to force myself on her. I've told her what I want and need, and I've left it at that. She can either find a way to meet those needs or not. It's entirely her choice. Granted, our marriage may depend on her figuring it out, but it's still her choice.


Great...she crushes me and our marriage to the point that it must be discarded for a "new" relationship, only instead of a fun, exciting "new" relationship like she got to have with OM, I get to inherit a mess...all of the baggage of our "old" relationship with none of the fun of a "new" relationship.

She gets to go and have her fun for 3.5 years, and good old loyal hubby gets stuck with the same old, same old....IF I play nice and IF I am Mr. Sensitive.

The bottom line is that I owe her nothing more now than before the A, but she DOES owe me a helluva lot more now than before the A...and I'll be damned if I begin to pay up first.


What's safe about having unprotected sex with someone you barely know? That was a large part of the turn-on for her...that it was so risky.

She doesn't need to feel safe to have sex, obviously.

If anything, I should feel unsafe when we have sex, not her. I'm not going to try harder in the bedroom than I did before just because she went out and got some strange. I refuse.

Maybe I should just get a D. I have yet to see ONE WS who is willing to do 51% of the work...it's always gotta be 50-50.

I think that he is being brutally honest...and it's painful to hear.....

I think that this place should be safe enough to hear the ugly....

and not get caught up in the verbage.....
those are the word pictures of the feelings of how hurt and distraught he is...

how it kills his soul that his wife would do for another man and not for him.....

IF these are thoughts only...not in action.....then they need to be released and heard....

this not to say I am condoning abuse...
to act on these feelings in anger...is totally different then thinking them in ones head and not acting...
that's a whole different ball game....

and if that's what krazy is doing ...then it's wrong and she must leave...

BUT

if these are his feelings in word pictures...that's different....
and he has not expressed them to her...and if seeking an outlet....

theory and thought...are different from action and reality..

I personally doubt there's a man out there...(or a women) who wouldn't in theory like to have sex every time they wanted it...

that's nervanna...
eh?
doesn't equal demanding it all the time...
but one can still think it..

ark

That story is awful, but it doesn't remotely resemble my situation. I have not talked to her that way or treated her that way.

I DO think, however, that any WS should be willing to do anything with their BS that they did with OP.

To refuse to is the same as refusing to answer a question...it keeps something just bewteen WS and OP.

The bottom line is that I owe her nothing more now than before the A, but she DOES owe me a helluva lot more now than before the A...and I'll be damned if I begin to pay up first

that's the crux then..
that's the reality...

if you aren't willing to do anything...it will not work out...

sex is not a weapon....and healthy nurturing long term marital sex....can't be turned in to one...or the marriage is doomed....

it won't work because if the broader picture is a long marriage of mutual intimacy and respect..you can not establish unequal patterns and actions to ger there...

it won't ever be even...there will be
too much tally keeping
too much suspicion

that's not what an equal loving sexual relationship is...

if you don't meet her needs...
she won't meet yours...
and if she doesn't meet your needs
you won't meet hers....

see it takes two...all of it...
recovery takes two

marriage takes two..

I'm sorry

ARK

"I have yet to see ONE WS who is willing to do 51% of the work...it's always gotta be 50-50."

Oh please, I'm a FWS and I bend over backwards, I do 80% of the work towwards the marriage, I'm the financial provider, my H has no interest in SF (never has) I do all the housework, pay all the bills, etc. etc.

My marriage is good, and I screwed it up, so I SUCK IT UP.

You have no obligation to suck up whatsoever. You do have a choice to leave if you don't think things are fair. You are not responsible nor can you control anothers thoughts, feelings, and behavior.

But your comment about WS simply isn't true, or at least not when applied to FWS.

Honestly, there never is true 50-50; often times, one spouse carries the heavier weight. It's siutational. It's when the same spouse always carries the heavy weight that problems are created. The problem is that the spouse carrying the heavier weight is not asking for help, or is more than likely enabling the other.

This is a great place to vent, but when I vent, I always get great advice and put it into action.



And what if some of these things trigger the FWS, in a way that makes the experience unsavory for them? What then? Do you continue to demand these things, just because OM got them? Some of the things that she did may not be good for her, and may make her feel unsafe.

Krazy:

Your post reminded me of something that was on my mind a few days ago, and I believe to be true.

It isn't so much as the affair that is the insourmountable problem in marriages that have them, but the actions by both parties after the affair.

Which makes me wonder, even though I know that there are success stories, how many people really succeed at recovery once an affair happens. It seems to me that not only does it take a lot of work and patience, but that IC and MC would probably be necessary as well.

OK, now I've seen one.

krazy..

has your wife apoligized..
and do you believe she is sorry....

ark

hee. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Maybe your wife can get there, too. But there is no way to make her want it. As unfair as that is, it is your choice to stay or go.

Walking in my front door is a trigger for me. I am triggered every day, numerous times. My own daughter triggers me sometimes.

I don't use the back door, and I don't avoid my daughter.

krazy,

I was as mad as you were when I found out. I didn't want sex though....I would rather have castrated him. So I DO get exactly where you're coming from. But I realized something that you haven't yet. I told my H that "If what you did doesn't destroy our marriage, my reaction to it WILL. I realized that in that angry state....I had become a bigger obstacle to recovery than the infidelity.

I think it's okay that you feel this way right now. But I also think that you'll never have a good marriage again if you can't work through some of it. If your resentment and anger continues to rage in this way....you might as well let her go before you're both even more broken.

I think one of the things trapping there....is that there was apparently no real reason for the infidelity except selfishness and hedonism. That is exactly how it was for me too. It made the whole thing so much uglier....and everytime I looked at him....I saw this beautiful exterior with a rotten core.

I didn't know how to overcome those feelings....but I did know that unless I was convinced that my husband was capable of true remorse and had a conscience that was developed enough to withstand future temptation....that I didn't want him.

So, what I did....was part of the "conditions" for reconciliation included 6 months of individual counseling to explore his lack of ethics. 100 hours of community service to demonstrate his willingness to recognize the pain of others. And confession to his preist.

I feel for you....I do...but the path you're taking will become abusive and your marriage won't survive it. Please take care.

star*

IMHO, it is never going to happen. You aren't the OP and the A wasn't your M.

Krazy, I'll bet that almost every thought you're having about your FWW's A is one that my H had. (Minus the pregnancy and unprotected sex and lack of sex. But I didn't have a baby to care for, or to complicate the situation. Childbirth generally does not increase a woman's sex drive, rather the opposite)

My point, and I do have one:

You're angry. You're very, very angry. Life (and your wife) have treated you harshly. You're basically on schedule for your anger, maybe a little behind schedule due to the baby's birth.

I think that it's good that you're venting here, but be careful of venting too much, lest it take you over. If you can, channel your anger in positive ways, exercise is one. My H used to write a lot of things to me like what you have written. It came to the point that I absolutely DREADED seeing him coming at me with a piece of paper in his hand.

The way you describe your W's affair makes me wonder if she has experienced some sexual trauma in her past.

Life is not fair. You might start to think on that a bit. You have this sense that you have been wronged, and you want compensation. Well, compensation is fine, but it is clearly not going to come in the form of sex whenever/wherever/however you demand.

So start thinking of other, less demeaning forms of compensation, ones that will benefit your relationship as a whole, not just your portion of a piece of it.

Take care.

PK

I agree with ark - feelings, emotions, pouring out the brutal honesty, is necessary and thats what is going on here.

However.

Feelings are not facts.

And his feelings can and do taint his behavior and tone to his wife.

I know, because I've been there, done that.


Recovery is not fair and never will be. If FAIR is more important than recovery then you should be working on a divorce, not recovery. I say this with all sincerity. Not everyone can or should recover, and if what you really want and need is FAIRNESS, then recovery is not where your efforts should be.

If your goal is recovery, THIS attitude on your part will NOT achieve it.

It's about practicality here.

Krazy, I think you need to answer Ark's question about apologies. If your wife is NOT remorseful and doesn't get what she did to you....then your anger is understandable, albeit not productive.

And I recall from your previous thread...that you do NOT have from her the remorse you need. Your anger, in that respect, is normal.

But, if your goal is recovery, you can not control her, you can only control yourself. Your anger seeps into your treatment of her, creating lovebusters that drive a wedge.

Right, I agree that we don't avoid what is absolutely necessary, but we do protect one another as best we can. What happens when she puts a new move on you, and then you are triggered, wondering if that was learned with OM. Are you okay with that? It just doesn't sound very inviting to me, even as the BS, Krazy. It doens't sound like an intimate place. No matter what, you will probably both have triggers, but safety is paramount in that moment. Maybe your FWW doesn't feel like you would be safe.

Even if your wife didn't need the intimacy or love with OM, maybe she needs it from you, and if you aren't willing to give it, then you are at a stand still. Just speculating, of course, for you wife does not post here.

What I'm suggesting is that you BOTH work on recovery. If you sit and wait for the good things to come to you, without any effort on your part, that's not recovery. This is YOUR anger to deal with. Is there anything that your FWW is doing that's good?

Again, since you are the one posting, we will talk to you about your part.

That's for her to decide.

If the M and I aren't worth it to her, so be it. I will never demand it or try to force her.

I will not, however, live with the knowledge that there is some guy out there who did things with my W that I can't have anymore....and that the only reason I can't is because he did.

It'd be a shame to get D over sexual hang-ups, but it may come to that. To continue to not meet my needs is abusive to me...and it should be the easiest need to meet.

Even without an affair in the mix....sex can be the hardest emotional need for a wife to give a husband.

I would normally ask you, what did OM do to inspire your wife to be sexual, but I recall that in your situation, he didn't do much other than be available.

And for that reason, I think, your wife has some issues she needs to address before she can be HEALTHY enough to give you what you need.

Is she in IC to explore WHY she did what she did?

That is from YOUR perception... I don't think it's as easy as you think. Especially if she still senses so much anger from you.

Yes, she has apologized and appears to be remorseful.

Saying the right thing is easy. I do it all the time.

Actions speak louder than words.