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Krazy - have you read the 5 Love Lanaguages by Chapman?

This book really helped my husband understand how to fill my lovebank. Perhaps verbal appreciation is not what YOU need.

For some reason, it was a book that really clicked in for us what we were doing wrong. We were killing ourselves to do for the other...but doing and receiving all the WRONG things. This helped us turn it around, and when that happened, it was easier to let the anger and resentment go - as our takers were appeased.


~ Pain is a given, misery is optional ~
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I will look into that book. Thank you.


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Have you tried getting away from the house and kids and day in day out stuff. Maybe going to a hotel, ordering room service, sipping champagne and just relaxing (even if it doesn't lead to sex).

You ARE doing quite a bit around the house and for your wife. Maybe, as BR mentioned, it's just not hitting the spot. Why not give yourself a bit of a break, too, Krazy? It sounds like you are a bit frayed, to say the least, running at full tilt. You must take care of yourself, first and foremost. It's really important that you don't run on a short fuse because you are simply exhausted.


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Well, I still agree with Krazy.

My ex and OW had hot animal sex - in the car, the truck, at the beach in the waves, on the floor in our home, in our bed, and who knows where else.

SF is one of my top needs, and ex used to spend a lot of time on the couch watching television, then falling asleep. The sex was boring, frankly.

I admit that I had a part in it too. We raised 8 kids together, and I worked full time, plus did all the kid stuff, shopping, cleaning, laundry, cooking. I just accepted my fate.

Turns out Mr. Animal COULD rise to the occasion though. The partner he preferred abandoned her husband and 12 year old daughter and didn't work. Hmmmm.

I guess I would approach it like Laura Schlessinger - tell wifey that you just aren't into your job that much any longer, and are thinking about letting your wilder side out for a romp.

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So, excuse ME if I put MY d_ck first. It's hot and exciting when OM is putting HIS d_ck above all else. Well, get used to it, honey, because if you don't attack me with the same vigor and eagerness, I will find someone who will. At least I've given you the ultimatum I wasn't lucky enough to receive from you.

Cheating men frequently have to "earn" their way back into their BS's pants...well, cheating women should, too. To continue to act like having sex with me is a gift you have deemed me worthy of? To expect ME, after what you've put me through, to jump through hoops, work around the house, and be Mr. Nice Guy in order to MAYBE get a quickie that night IF I initiate it, when OM just had to pick up a phone or send an IM? I say it should be that easy for me, too. I've earned it. If you don't think so...

F_ck you and the horse you rode in on. You are lucky I haven't tossed you aside like damaged goods, considering I feel like I'm licking a public urinal when I kiss you.

The choice is yours. If you think what you're giving me is plenty, good for you. I have news for you: I'm as young, hot-blooded, and potent as OM, who "wasn't getting enough at home".

Take that for what it's worth.





guess this is the part of your original post that was the message to the wife?

so you plan A the heck out of her for a year and a half and you still feel she is distant... all your efforts haven't won her back and now you are frustrated? did i summarize that right?

based on the level of anger in the letter, it is easy for a stranger like me to assume that this is not the first time you have lobbed a horrific love buster her way. it really looks like you have been bitter with her since the affair?

if that is the case (that you have resented the affair and have thrown it in her face periodically over the past year and a half) that may be the reason why she is still distant

am i way off base?

or... if you can truly, honestly say you have done your best to make her love you and it's still not there, maybe it is time for something else

you say insurance no longer covers counseling... looks like if you want to save your marriage you may need to bite the bullet and figure out a way to pay one out of pocket


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I hear you Krazy and your right you are never going to get anywhere with her if you accept it. It's just the way it is in marriage. It will continue as long as you allow it to continue.

I will explain to people why he is so distraught. He has to go to work everyday to support a person that killed him inside. She was willing to go to any links to have sex with the OM but for the one who actually goes to work and puts a roof over her head she is unwilling to do that for him.

When a wife refuses to meet her husbands needs if it is sex that seems to be ok. You can see by the responses by women that many of them don't think she is being unreasonable. I am not saying they are wrong it is just the difference between men and women. Now if you stopped giving her financial support which is very important to females well this sex war would be easier to fight.

Just like men are suppose to do a plan A for twice as long as a female? Every body seems to accept that as fair but I don't get it. Not related to your story but on the emotional needs part of this site I found a posting about pornography. Now I read a lot of porn posts but this one just made me shake my head.

A man posted that his wife was viewing porn and was using toys and watching porn instead of having sex with him. She was hiding it and lying about it. Almost all of the women who would have hung a man for these actions were blaming the poor guy. Saying his wife didn't trust him??? I have never seen a woman posting that same story get the advice that her husband doesn't trust her that is why he looks at porn and doesn't have sex with her.

What is the point of all of this, it isn't fair. So do something about it. Don't accept it. I have been there and it is not good for your mental health. I had the same problem you did and I was trying to fix the problem with my XWW.

We went to the counselor also and I heard every excuse just as you have. Probably like you I caught my ex in her affair and that was the end for me. I am not saying to divorce her but if you are not willing to die on that mountain you will have to learn how to accept it.

Sex is the one thing that I think gives women power in the relationship. How many times do you see on TV men being punished that way and I have to admit I laugh.

I hear you but do something about it. Sex was important to me in our marriage because to a male it is how we show and receive love. Your angry because your wife gave to another guy what should have been saved for you. Get some help and make her understand how important it is to you. You have no right to abuse her but you certainly do have a right to expect your wife to participate in a enjoyable sex life.

She was willing to do that for a complete stranger and I think you have every right to expect that in a marriage. Get professional help if you can though because most women don't have a clue about men. Just like we have no clue about them. Good luck to your healing.

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(Not)Krazy,

I haven't read this entire thread, so I apologize if this has already been said.

I think you're asking the wrong question.

Instead of asking: "Why doesn't my wife have the burning desire for hot sex with me like she did with a virtual stranger?"

I think the real question is: "Why DID she have the burning desire to f--- a virtual stranger?"

You said she has suffered no consequences for the affair. But I disagree. Every time she screwed him... using another human being, and allowing herself to be used... it chipped away a tiny bit of her soul. Whether she realizes it yet or not.

Did you ever say whether she suffered some sort of trauma in the past (sexaul or otherwise)?

It seems clear to me that she does not have a healthy emotional outlook. Why is that? What happened to her? Because until she becomes emotionally healthy herself, she won't be able to give you what you want anyway.

--SC


"I require more from my spouse than behaving well in order to avoid pain." (guess who)
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Krazy,

Have you figured out why your wife had the affair? Has she processed it? What did the OM represent that you didn't? Did she do this out of boredom or is there something fundamentally wrong with her?

I'll probably get people all hot with this, but it is my observation and personal experience that most people do not have affairs when they are secure and fulfilled in their marriage. Yes, I know that some people are just sadists and f-around just because they have the opportunity. But I think that most people that I have intereacted with do not act that way.

Why did your wife do this? Your really need to find this out so that it doesn't happen again. If she has no clue and won't address it I would pack her bags and send her off to the OM. She has to find out why she did this so she can affect the changes in her life that will protect you from further trama. I really belive this.

On an aside, don't ever compare yourself to the OM. If he that amazing she would have left you to be with him. No-fault divorce and child support for the next 18 years would have given her a good start on a new life. Why is she still with you? There must be some reason that she stays around and has to deal with looking in the eyes of a man that she hurt terribly. It would be so much easier for her just to run. Why is she still with you?


What we think or what we know or what we believe is, in the end, of little consequence. The only consequence is what we do. ~ John Ruskin
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Quote:



I walked in on her and OM, naked on my couch, a little before noon that same day.

Fast forward 17 months. Every time I hear "I'm too tired", "I have a headache", or ANY other excuse to not have sex, I feel like going into a rage, because none of those so-called "ailments" come close to the misery her morning sickness was causing her...but the "adrenaline rush" she got from the excitement of cheating (her words) helped her get over it long enough to do the deed with someone else, on my couch.




Can I ask, since we "fast forwarded 17 months" in this outline, what was your reaction when you walked in on them on the couch? What was said, done, what was their response to your response, etc?

-FHTH

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Quote:

Why did your wife do this? Your really need to find this out so that it doesn't happen again. If she has no clue and won't address it I would pack her bags and send her off to the OM. She has to find out why she did this so she can affect the changes in her life that will protect you from further trama. I really belive this.




I totally agree with this. If my H sat around and didn't try to find out the reasons for his affairs, I would see that as a measure of how much he wanted our marriage and I would be afraid it would happen again. I personally wouldn't sign up for that.

I personally feel that you would both benefit from counseling, and if she is not willing to go, you may consider going for yourself. You cannot control her or change her, but you can change yourself and how you respond to her.

Figure out what you value and put boundaries in place to protect it. If you wife isn't willing to work on the marriage by seeking counseling, etc. then I guess there's not much of a marriage to value.

I do believe the new poster who is the FWS and told you that you just can't turn on your feelings is correct. I'm willing to bet your wife is holding onto resentments about your marriage and probably even has a false sense of entitlement to some of those feelings. This can be worked out in IC and MC.

If you want results, you have to do the work. It won't come on a silver platter.

Now for this


Quote:


Quote:


I walked in on her and OM, naked on my couch, a little before noon that same day.

Fast forward 17 months. Every time I hear "I'm too tired", "I have a headache", or ANY other excuse to not have sex, I feel like going into a rage, because none of those so-called "ailments" come close to the misery her morning sickness was causing her...but the "adrenaline rush" she got from the excitement of cheating (her words) helped her get over it long enough to do the deed with someone else, on my couch.



Can I ask, since we "fast forwarded 17 months" in this outline, what was your reaction when you walked in on them on the couch? What was said, done, what was their response to your response, etc?





New poster, FromHeaventoHell......

Please explain what the relevance of this question is in helping Krazy, other than to cause him triggers.

This is your first post. Do you have a story somewhere on these boards? We are leary of new posters around here because of the trolls lately. Being this is your first post and jumping in with a question like this has me wondering if you are a troll.

Last edited by mopey; 12/12/07 05:37 PM.

Husband was unfaithful to me before and after our marriage, at least 7 times. I found out 13 yrs into the marriage. Trickle truth for an entire year. Several different d-days, so it was more like a d-year. Difficult recovery.



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Would this person, if he/she is a troll, likely be a WS looking to find out what might happen if they were caught red-handed, too?

I'll answer the question soon...that story might even be worthy of its own topic.


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New poster, FromHeaventoHell......

Please explain what the relevance of this question is in helping Krazy, other than to cause him triggers.

This is your first post. Do you have a story somewhere on these boards? We are leary of new posters around here because of the trolls lately. Being this is your first post and jumping in with a question like this has me wondering if you are a troll.




I think its a valid question that I was wondering about myself. "SOMETHING" is causing Krazy to NOT get past this ... now it could just be the obvious of walking in and catching them in the act ... OR there could have been a specific incident that occurred at that time. Possibly the W or OM said or did something to further humiliate Krazy that he can't get past or he is questioning himself for NOT getting physical with the OM ... we just don't know.

I know he's going about this the wrong way, but I REALLY feel for this guy and what he has endured.

Anyway, I think it is a valid question, although I can certainly see your concerns.

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Quote:

New poster, FromHeaventoHell......

Please explain what the relevance of this question is in helping Krazy, other than to cause him triggers.

This is your first post. Do you have a story somewhere on these boards? We are leary of new posters around here because of the trolls lately. Being this is your first post and jumping in with a question like this has me wondering if you are a troll.




I'm sorry to just jump in with a question without putting my story up first. I've been reading Krazy's posts (I've read them all on every thread), and find myself feeling a LOT like he does, not every detail, but close. I've also been reading other's posts to him and reading up on MB principles. Even though this goes against a natural reaction, I can see the good it could do and I'm starting to try to see things from that point of view...
Now to the question. I didn't mean for it to be a trigger, but I think that hearing what everyone said and knowing the reponses would go a long way to seeing into the mind of each person involved and where the mindset started (post affair, upon discovery). That in turn, may be relevant to what's happened since D-day. I may be off base here, and if so, then my appologies. It's something I was interested in both for Krazy's story's continuity AND because I would like to possibly gain some insight on if it has anything in common with my reaction's on my D-day...Granted, I didn't bust them in the act, but the reactions may be similar, I just don't know.
I'm still only a couple of months out from my D-day, and still have a hard time dealing with the betrayal. I'm just looking for similarity's between my story and anyone else's that I can relate to my own experience thus far.
Again, if I am out of line, I appologize.
-FHTH

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Quote:

I think its a valid question that I was wondering about myself. "SOMETHING" is causing Krazy to NOT get past this ... now it could just be the obvious of walking in and catching them in the act ... OR there could have been a specific incident that occurred at that time. Possibly the W or OM said or did something to further humiliate Krazy that he can't get past or he is questioning himself for NOT getting physical with the OM ... we just don't know.

I know he's going about this the wrong way, but I REALLY feel for this guy and what he has endured.

Anyway, I think it is a valid question, although I can certainly see your concerns.




I agree it would be a valid question if that was what Krazy was so upset about.

Forgive me if I'm mistaken, but isn't Krazy upset about his wife's sexual desire for him? Isn't that what this thread is about? I don't see the revelence to his wife's desires in that question but I am definitely willing to see why you guys think it is

But he's angry because of her lack of desire. Wasn't that the issue?

Yes, he's angry for a lot of obvious reasons and he probably has a lot of different feelings and emotions about walking in on them. But that scenario didn't kill HIS desire to be with his wife sexually. Correct me if I'm wrong here Krazy. I'm sure the SF would be difficult even if your wife did have the desire. Her lack of it just makes it worse.



Quote:

Would this person, if he/she is a troll, likely be a WS looking to find out what might happen if they were caught red-handed, too?




Well, I guess that's possible. Anything's possible. But I don't think so.


Husband was unfaithful to me before and after our marriage, at least 7 times. I found out 13 yrs into the marriage. Trickle truth for an entire year. Several different d-days, so it was more like a d-year. Difficult recovery.



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mopey,

It seems that Krazy is sabbotaging his own chances at SF with his very negative (albiet understandable) comments towards his W. To me, it seems that there is "something" that keeps him from getting past the act, the discovery or the OM, that causes him to keep badgering his W, which in turn causes her to withdraw further. I was just wondering if there was something missing from the account of what happened that may be feeding that negativity (other than the obvious).

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Learned 9/5/07 that WW set up a secret hotmail account on 7/30/07 and broke NC again by sending OM an email the same day trying to reestablish contact. WW claims that OM never responded, but who knows?




MyRelevation,

I know this is OT for this thread, but I just wanted to tell you that I used to work for MSN (who owns hotmail), and that if you have an account with MSN and are the account holder, you can call their technical support, tell them you want to talk to Tier 3, and have them "undelete" everything from the account that has been deleted. Just FYI
-FHTH

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FHTH.....

Quote:

but I think that hearing what everyone said and knowing the reponses would go a long way to seeing into the mind of each person involved and where the mindset started (post affair, upon discovery). That in turn, may be relevant to what's happened since D-day.




My guess is the mindset started before the affair and that's why she had the affair. Krazy, did your wife desire you like the OM before the affair? My guess is is probably "no".


Husband was unfaithful to me before and after our marriage, at least 7 times. I found out 13 yrs into the marriage. Trickle truth for an entire year. Several different d-days, so it was more like a d-year. Difficult recovery.



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Quote:

Quote:

Learned 9/5/07 that WW set up a secret hotmail account on 7/30/07 and broke NC again by sending OM an email the same day trying to reestablish contact. WW claims that OM never responded, but who knows?




MyRelevation,

I know this is OT for this thread, but I just wanted to tell you that I used to work for MSN (who owns hotmail), and that if you have an account with MSN and are the account holder, you can call their technical support, tell them you want to talk to Tier 3, and have them "undelete" everything from the account that has been deleted. Just FYI
-FHTH




Thank you very much ... I'll call tomorrow ... t/j over.

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MR....

Quote:

It seems that Krazy is sabbotaging his own chances at SF with his very negative (albiet understandable) comments towards his W. To me, it seems that there is "something" that keeps him from getting past the act, the discovery or the OM, that causes him to keep badgering his W, which in turn causes her to withdraw further. I was just wondering if there was something missing from the account of what happened that may be feeding that negativity (other than the obvious).




That is very possible and duly noted. It is very difficult for a BS to get over the anger of being cheated on. Their lives feel like they are falling apart because their WS wanted to get their needs filled elsewhere. And he needs to be able to get that anger and pain out, in a healthy way and I'm the first one to admit that that is HARD. He has every right to be angry but it is a consequence of her behavior.

I feel they are still resenting each other for whatever reasons and it's showing up in their SF.

Krazy, please forgive me for not having read your whole thread, although I've read a lot. Have you sat your wife down and "asked" her in a loving and non-defensive way why she doesn't have that same desire?

I honestly wish you two would get some counseling to bring these issues up so you can work through them.


Husband was unfaithful to me before and after our marriage, at least 7 times. I found out 13 yrs into the marriage. Trickle truth for an entire year. Several different d-days, so it was more like a d-year. Difficult recovery.



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My memory of the event is fairly fuzzy, because I was as close to crazy as I've ever been.

I called my wife at work at about 11:00 am. I was told she was already at lunch, which was odd because we always went at noon and met at home...if not, we'd call each other. I thought she must've been feeling especially awful and went home early to rest. She had been suffering from morning sickness, since she was 6 weeks pregnant at the time...we'd known for about 2 weeks. I left for home immediately without calling...I was one part suspicious (that came naturally), one part concerned for her health.

I saw har car in the driveway, but I also saw a strange vehicle parked in the street out front. I remember thinking, "Surely not. She's pregnant!" I'll never forget that because it was the last thought of my old life, and of my old self.

I opened the door. My wife had just barely gotten herself covered, and the OM had just stood up. Both were completely naked. This is where my memory begins to fail. I'll never forget the looks on their faces. I can't imagine what mine must've looked like. I can't even describe the feeling. It was like a mental overload. Enough anger to kill them both, enough sadness to kill myself, and it all welled up from nothing in 2 seconds. I had no real suspicions, and I had been at a high point...we had improved our marriage from being on the verge of separation 2 years earlier (due to "not getting along"), to agreeing to have a second child. From my point of view, our marriage was at its best in over 10 years. Then I opened the front door. The ultimate blindside.

Back to the point: At first, nobody said a word. Then I spoke.

"You didn't even use protection?"

I could see that with my own 2 eyes. Then I turned to OM.

"Did you know she's six weeks pregnant?"

He didn't, supposedly. I started to meltdown as OM got dressed. I thought about my shotgun, but it was upstairs. I couldn't get to it and get back down before OM left. I started for the kitchen to get a knife. I swear on my kids' life that I had every intent of gutting him like a fish in my living room. I wanted to so bad I could taste it, then I thought of my son. He'd be without a father. That's all that stopped me. OM started to leave and I yelled, as loud as I could, with a finger in his face,

"If I ever see you again, I will kill you!"

It may sound like hot air right now, but I wasn't kidding.


I regret not attacking him. Not killing him, maybe, but he should've gone to the hospital that day. I feel like it was my obligation as a husband, a father, and a man, but I failed. I felt like my only options were to kill or not. Simple assault never crossed my mind.

After he'd left, I broke some stuff and asked "Why?" an unknown number of times while my wife said, "I'm sorry" every time I asked. She was also in shock, I'm sure.

After I started to return to some semblance of sanity, I began interrogating her. I'd never seen this guy before. I had no idea who he was. I'll never forget that the first time I asked for his name, she gave me one. It must've been an awful job of lying, because even in my shocked state, I knew she was lying. She gave me his real name the second time I asked. Then she gave me everything else she knew, including his cell phone number, employer, etc.

The next day, I called his wife. She didn't react any better than I did. I haven't heard from her since, although I've been tempted many, many times to call her and compare notes.

I'm done for the night, but I'll check in tomorrow and answer any questions and fill in any holes I left in the story.


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