Silentlucidity,

I've always heard a sexless marriage is a dead marriage. I believe it, unless both spouses are so old that sex isn't a factor anymore.

I also believe this: If they are getting it from you, they may also be getting it from someone else. If they aren't getting it from you, then they are DEFINITELY getting it from someone else.

I don't believe for a second that the average WS goes from being a slut (male or female) to being celibate.

I'll give my wife a little longer, then I'll begin to assume she's screwing someone else.

I don't believe he's getting sexed elsewhere, but he's got SOMETHIN goin on. I'm sure my anger helped to shrink his whosawhatsit in the past. Dunno bout now. It's not something that I will be able to continue in forever, but I have no idea what my breaking point will be until I reach it.

Really, sex is not HIGH on my list of priorities as much as O&H, and AFFECTION.

I haven't gotten much DIRECT feedback on this subject, except to CHECK on his NC. I've done that. Otherwise, I'm no mind reader....

edited to add...

I can't change him, but I can change me, and living in a state of ANGER and RESENTMENT was killing my spirit, and I WON'T let anybody do that to me. For now, my kid is boiling over with glee and his dad is so inspired by him. I am treated with respect, and he is honest with me. I'm okay with that for now. It's a heck of a sight better than where we have been. I hope for more.

Krazy,

I understand where you're coming from with your comments. But both of you being an an crossroads and neither wanting to give in is not going to get you anywhere.

Someone needs to be the bigger person. If not her, then you. I know that doesn't seem fair but recovery isn't always fair.

I think I'd rather end the marriage than compromise on this issue. I've swallowed enough pride by allowing her to remain in my life.

It may very well come to that.

She screwed up...she can either rectify the situation by merely doing what she's already done...with someone else...or she can miss half of her kids' childhood. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

I agree with coachswife on this one. YOu two will never recover this way. I'm no expert, but anger and bitterness toward your spouse isn't going to arouse her.

YOu aren't giving her much of a choice here, Krazy. You're saying either she behaves in a deviant manner with you, and all the BAD choices that entails and bad feelings about herself that entails, OR divorce.

I'm sorry, but I just can't agree with your perspective at all.

Just how much of a choice did Krazy's WW give him before she jumped into an A, and just what is "deviant" about a married man wanting, and having a reasonble expectation of having SF with his W?

Personally, I think Krazy has a much healthier attitude about this than most of the BH's we see here, who claim to be "recovered", but in fact have settled for something less than what should be expected. BH's should be ready to leave the M, if the WW won't return to the M fully ... this situation was forced on him, which means he get to decide if R or D is the better option, and ONLY Krazy can make that decision for himself.

I understand that this is viewed very differently between men and women, and if I've misunderstood your intent, I apologize for jumping in.

Yeah, you've misunderstood my intent. I thought Krazy was saying he wanted her to BE like she was with OM. Her behavior THEN was deviant. The only time *I* have ever been hypersexual was in the romantic stage of love. Now, if you just want a warm body for insertion, I'm sure she'll fit the bill. If you want her to be involved, well, that takes a whole lot more SUGAR, IMO.

AS for now, I gotta say, if someone is angry with me all the time, it doesn't endear me to them.

Also, IF his WW is just punishing, and will NEVER give him this EN, and it's a deal breaker, then that's it, isn't it? He has his answer.

I don't think ANGER and RESENTMENT is healthy every waking moment, so if this is the case, I have to disagree that he's HEALTHY about this.

Believe me, I'm not jumping for joy that my sex life is on HOLD, but I'm not going to continue to do the same sh!te over and over again, waiting for something to change.

Again, if this is a deal breaker, then the deal is broken, n'est pas?

edited to add...

I'm also coming from the perspective of a BW, who does not have sex at the top of the EN scale, but does have affection AT THE TOP. For me, the only way I have gotten this need met has been to drop the anger and resentment. So far, so good, with a loooooooong way to go.

I don't think it is wrong AT ALL for the BS to want sex from their spouse, not at all.

SL,

Sorry I misread what you were saying ... I thought you were just piling on Krazy in a "man-bashing" sort of way. It really is tough to distinguish "intent" with only the impersonal written word.

I don't know if you've read through Krazy's story, but given "how" he discovered his WW's A, as a fellow BH, he gets a free pass from me on the anger part, even if it is counter to MB principles.

In all honesty, I think he has an amazing tolerance level to have made it this far.

In his case, this apparently is going to be a deal-breaker, and I really can't fault him for that. Any man that has endured what he witnessed should get a shot at true happiness with a real life "partner" ... and I would support his decision to continue to R or go straight to Plan FU ... as he's earned the right to make that decision for himself.

Rev,

I have read his entire thread. I totally agree with you about what Krazy has suffered thru. I never even SAW OW#2 (yup, there were two), and I have enough bad memories in MY HEAD. I can imagine how tortured he must be.

The reason I respond to him is because he posts. When he posts, I take it as a person reaching out.

My issue with his anger is, if he stays, he's going to die a slow death of a thousand daggers. There will be nothing left of him. I HATE what affairs do to us, the BS, just HATE it. I have been on this coaster for almost three years now, in recovery for 8 months. I KNOW anger, as many of us do.

I don't FAULT Krazy, there are real reasons for his anger.

I support any BS decision to Plan FU or continue with the R. I don't , however, help them make excuses for the damage they are doing to themselves. If this truly is a helpless sitch, in his mind and heart, then he knows what to do. If he is trying to hold on, then my best advice is for HIM to get some help.

I believe even Harley says that some people never get over the A, nor the devastation, for it is just too much. I hope, for Krazy and his kids and his wife, that he can recover.

I personally believe Krazy and his wife should end the marriage and save themselves (and their children) years of misery...and eventual abuse.

I do not believe that Krazy will ever be able to recover from this because he does not WANT to. Krazy feels that he has now earned the right to behave however he wants and that his wive should cower at his feet and beg his forgivness.

It seems that they are at an impasse. He treats her like [censored] and makes her feel horrible and then expects her to bow to him and treat him like a king. Sorry Krazy, that ain't how it works!

You BOTH had a part to play in the demise of the marriage. Yes, the way she chose to deal with it on her end was absolutely HORRIBLE. But it doesn't detract from the fact that you were responsible for 50% of the marriage before the affair and whether you like or not, you still have to contribute your 50% even after the affair. Just because you caught her in an A doesn't mean that now she has to contribute 90% to the marriage and you only have to put in your 10% because she "owes" you.

If that's how you plan to continue your marriage then you should just divorce now.

I think you view is way off and your post out of line.

MEDC, WHO?

Not that I think my post is out of line. If Krazy can't find a way to engage in his marriage in a positive way, then he has his answer. It's over OR he will live in a BAD MARRIAGE; one of which is partially his doing.

Hope that cleared it up. He can be angry all he likes, but it's not the MB way, and this IS a MB website.

Sl, the post was directed at Cathy01. (see title line). I have no problems with your posts(or your delivery) and think you are right on.

Thanks for the clarification, MEDC.

This quote, taken from a previous Krazy post, to me shows exactly his frame of mind.

If this IS truly his frame of mind then it is highly unlikely that they will ever get past this. In the mean time, they are causing more and more damage every single day to their relationship with each other and to their children.

He has said that his resentment is even more now than it was when he first posted two months ago.

If Krazy's wife even *thinks* that he might actually feel this way about her, then it's no wonder she's not as "enthusiastic" as he'd like. If anybody ever told me they felt like they were licking a public urinal when they kissed me then they'd never get the opportunity to kiss me again. Sorry.

MEDC, sorry you felt that way about my post, but I meant every word.

cathy..
I also believe that Krazy and his wife need serious serious counseling if there's a snow-balls chance of this marriage working out..

otherwise it is setting up to be a battle field of monstrous propertions..

this opinion board is way way undererquipped to deal with the heavy psychological and emotional issues that are occuring for both of them..

I pray he seeks professional counsel...and or she as well

ARK^^

Krazy,

Before her affair, did your wife act as you now wish her to act with YOU? Not with someone else . . . you’ve said that . . . with YOU.

Frankly, I cannot help who I'm sexually attracted to. I cannot fake it. It is as a light switch with me . . . on or off. Perhaps your wife is the same.

I do know that very few people want to have fantastic monkey-sex with someone that is hostile to them. Even if the hostility is justified.

Perhaps you two should divorce before you completely hate each other. I think that no matter what you do your wife will not respond in the fashion that you wish. Read some about the chemistry of attraction and you will see that it is fleeting; generally it reaches its zenith in the early stages of a relationship. You’ve been married for years. If you want that from someone, that intense desire and hyper-sexuality, you will probably have to start a new relationship with someone else.

cathy,

I don't always agree with MEDC, but I do in this instance. Krazy is completely justified in feeling this way, and he needs a place like this to "vent" to keep from blasting his WW on a daily basis.

I agree, that his M seems pretty hopeless and will likely end in D, but Krazy has earned a shot at R, if he chooses, whether we agree with his perspective or not.

Personally, I think many BH's would be much better off in being more assertive about what they want/expect, rather than simply settling for less than they signed up for in the beginning, because they are so whipped by their WW. Krazy will likely come out of this with some relationship that is acceptable to him, it just may be with someone else, but that is much better than accepting the leftover crumbs that many of the so-called "recovered" BH's here have settled for.

FWIW, Krazy has my respect for knowing what he wants and having the backbone to not accept less.

I think walking in on your WW screwing another man would make him feel disgusted to kiss her at times...considering where her mouth most likely was.

I agree that Krazy needs to either dump her (which I think is the right move) or find a better way to deal with his anger. Her treatment of her H has brought this about...I understand his anger and his pain. She is lucky she hasn't been kicked to the curb...and she is lucky he didn't shoot the both of them when he walked in on this. She really should be grateful that didn't happen.

Krazy, I do understand your pain. But really...what is it doing for YOU right now? From a selfish standpoint, decide what you want for yourself and go about getting it the best way you know how. Obviously it is not great foreplay to slam your wife and then expect her to be ready to please you. I understand that you feel cheated. You have been cheated and in all honesty, that isn't going to change.

Your wife is giving you lousy leftovers...no doubt about it. So, it is up to you to decide if she is worth the effort to try and recover your marriage. Only you can decide that right now. Some WS are worth the effort...some aren't worth the air they breathe. This really isn't about sex...it is about her sharing a part of herself with the OM that she is now denying you...it is much deeper than sex.

Make up your mind about what you want and decide for YOU...not for HER...that you are not going to live in a constant state of anger all the time. Do it for yourself.

Exactly.