You need to insist that your daughter talk to her mother in a respectful way. But of course she is angry, and there is nothing like a 13 year old who is mad at mom. Unless she is disrespectful, you need to stay clear.

I will talk to her because that is how it turns into a fight... being disrespectful. Mind you my WW is being just as disrespectful to her. She is telling her how she feels though... that she is running away and doesn't care what anybody else thinks. I found out that she had told her M that she was rude in the way she told me to wash the Christmas tree skirt. I didn't say a word, but my WW came back downstairs to do the cat litter, which my ODD is suppose to do, and it was all I could do to hold back from telling her that this was to be expected and that there was probably more to come because other than yelling matches she has yet to talk to her. These are the consequences...

Well, these ARE the consequences of your wife's choices, but she won't want to hear it from you.

I would talk to the rational one - your daughter. Tell her that you have a plan, and you would appreciate that she respect her mom, and that she doesn't need to take your side on things.

Sometimes I wonder if the poor kid is just as messed up as her M. She does have allot of anger (Most of it I suspect comes from seeing the pain I'm going through, especially Christmas eve and today, where she saw me crying).
I have explained the plan to her and she doesn't understand why I would be doing this and why I'm not showing my anger.

Mark has beat the 'shut up' into me so I let her vent and don't say a word if I don't have anything comforting to come back with, and that's mostly because most of what comes out is babble.

Having this birthday party without her there was very hard. The look on her M's face said it all. The first thing my WW asked about the party is if her parents had come, then she said 'My M must have allotted of nice things to say' I told her that no one really talked about it; we were there for a different reason. Now she's all concerned about having a special party for her and her friends this weekend, which is fine, but I will be all over it as well. This of course has put her in a real bad mood so I'm staying clear. ODD went back up to her room to get something and they started back up again. This time WW was complaining that my does not hesitate to ask her for a ride anywhere, but then doesn't show her any appreciation or respect for it. ODD basically told her that she wasn't acting like a parent. The exchange ended with ODD telling WW that she did want her kids, WW answered by saying that she does and that is why custody is to be set up as 50-50... ODD said 'That if we want to go stay with you' Ouch! For a couple of years I was there to protect her from this kind of argument, but no more. This is the course she chooses, so she must learn to fight her own battles. My ODD feel better just getting that off her chest. (I did ask her to respect her mother and not yell back at her, will she do as I ask, and I would be surprised as they are very much alike).

I had a couple more little crying fits during our ride home, but the girls were sleeping so it wasn't so bad, and I do feel better now. I am sickened by her whole attitude! She slept in our bed on my side which she only usually did if I am out of town.

When I see her like this I think that my Plan A is completely ineffective. I have been staying away from LBs and have done I could to meet EN (Tomorrow I follow Skins led and clean the place up). I will also make her something nice for supper; she's been cooking for herself for the last few days so this should go over well.

I will read the notes from Jennifer's session and remind myself why I am putting myself through this. I feel lucky to have a good support system which includes the people who have taken the time here at MB.

Have fun cleaning TMTS,

I am almost done and the place looks great and actually smells good from the candles.

I didn't do any baking as the cleaning took longer so I will do it probably tomorrow.

TMTS

13-year-old DD's are often very disrespectful in tone and attitude towards their mothers. That's normal (and a real pain in the tukus) in the best of circumstances.

But this situation is not normal.

Your DD is at a place in her life where she is just starting to figure out who she is a young woman and is starting to find her independence apart from her mom-the woman she has, up until now-identified herself with. It doesn't help that her mom is acting like a spoiled teen-ager as well. WS's are completely self-absorbed and that is like kerosene on a fire with a teen-age daughter.

You did a fantastic job doing the "shut up" with your DD. Most of the time, girls and women just need to verbally vent to process what we are feeling. She didn't need you to fix it. She just needed you to listen-which you did. Because you were there for her, she will know that she can turn to you in difficult times from this.

My YS's counselor told me when we were going through the worst of it that "YS knows he is deeply loved. You can survive a lot when you know that."

Hang in there-

Hi TMTS!!

I just read through the last few pages to get caught up with your situation. I am so sorry your holidays are not going well. I'm glad skinsgal came in to help you through some of it (big props to SINKSGAL!!!). I needed to take a few days off for the holidays and b/c I was sick for a couple days. Doing better now, though, and I wanted to touch base with you before I go to bed.

I wish there was something I could say that would ease your pain...it's hard hearing you go through all of this. Especially when I know it is what my husband was feeling for a year and a half. I hope that the fact that he finally broke through my fog gives you some hope.

It sounds like your DD is really reading your WW the riot act. I agree with Believer about the respect thing, but remember, it is hard for a 13-yr-old to respect an adult who is acting the way she is right now. I always had a problem being expected to respect someone just because they were an adult when they didn't deserve it, ya know. She is her mother, though, but in some ways that makes it harder. Your WW is supposed to be the greatest (or at least one of) female role model that she has in her life. But she isn't really living up to that right now, is she?! So, while you can ask her to tone it down, remind her you have a plan, and to try to show more respect towards her mother, you cannot control the way she feels. She has a right to the way she feels, as do you. Just be there for her, and tell her that everyone makes mistakes sometimes. Tell her that you are trying to help her mother realize what she has gotten herself into and at the same time you are trying to be a better person for YOU and for your DDs.

Hang in there, buddy!!! Me and w2s are here for you if you need us!! Sounds like you have both sides of the family, and her friends no less, supporting you also, not to mention all the people here! You will get through this!!!


(((((TMTS)))))

Thank you LaLa, that is very kind of you to say.

It means alot to me that I can help someone else because so many people are helping me.

I'm going to have to read your story and see how your miracle happened.

Happy New Year and take care of yourself.

You too, and you are very welcome. Although I am very new here, and so many of my posts, especially from the very beginning are...yuck! As a matter of fact, my first post I am thinking of renaming to "FOGAPALOOZA-rantings of a WW" as opposed to "Nine months in recovery/still struggling." Yeah right! I was in recovery about as much as a raging drug addict!!

Good grief <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

Would your posts help me to understand what is going on in my WH mind?

I just want to TJ for one or two other questions.

Do you know my sitch and do you think there is any hope at all?

Thanks folks. (Welcome back LaLa and W2S)

It’s a pretty sleepless night for me, but I do feel a little better now that I am at home.

It's tough with the DD, because as much as I want her to tone it down and be more respectful, I don't want her to end up like me and hold on to the pain for 25 years.

My WW was very much angry at the attitude from my DD, but she brought this upon herself and has made it clear that I no longer am in the picture to save her from it. I used to jump in all the time when they would go at it, but not anymore. My WW knew my past and knew how much this would hurt me. I think I took her by surprise when I didn’t move out or kick her out immediately. Many have told me that they couldn't do it and would kick them out right away. I used to think like that unit it happened to me. I found that my love for her was stronger than the negative feelings.

I hang on to the fact that it can happen (Many examples here), and that if it doesn't I will be a better person for it. Who knows I may even find someone else that I can share my life and love with. But the timing of this is really bad. From what I can tell, there is no sign of the OM. She's been calling from home to talk to the kids at times that would make sense. I hope this guy ends up being the player he looks to be, and she sees first hand the difference between a real man and chump, between real love and the fantasy of love she is under.

Skins, there is no TJ that can ever make up for the support you have given me. I know that as newbies (You too LaLa), we try to cheerlead more that give suggestions other than what we have experienced ourselves, but to me this is just as important if not more at this stage. with Plan A being so draining, it's nice to have people who have been through similar situations be there just to say... it's OK.

And No more killing thy self talk. OK. I know we have probably all thought about it. (To tell you the truth, it did come to mind this afternoon). But I cannot bring myself to justify getting rid of the pain from a selfish act by committing the most selfish act. A dead person feels no pain, but leaves a big wake.

Lela - How is it going at your end? How W2S? Any issues with fog wanting to creep back in? I'll check your stitch.

Hey TMTS,

I'm still up. I have to go get my YS in a few minutes. He went over to a friends house.


NO ONE truly comprehends what they would do until they are FACED with this. Oh sure, you can say what you would do, BUT REALITY vs EXAMPLE, there is no way to KNOW.

TMTS, Have FAITH in G-d. I am not as good as JT or Mark, but there is that scripture that talks about the Lord having plans for us. He REALLY does. We just can't imagine what it is. And I would venture to say, like me, you can't imagine this pain not being here every part of everyday.

But look at these people on here who HAVE recovered. And if you go back and read their STORIES, they were as desparate and broken as US.

We don't KNOW what G-d has planned for us. But because we are WILLING to stand for our M, make the changes that G-d wants us to make and become the people G-d always envisioned us to be, then yes, we will have someone in our life to love. I HAVE to keep the FAITH as well. There is so much love in both of us to give away, G-d won't waste it. And since we are walking in G-ds will, chances are good it can be our S.

Remember, what Mimi and so many others say. It's not about THE OP, it's about us. I am still learning this, but it's not about a competition. They CAN'T compete with us. Our life is good and what they are doing isn't.

KEEP FAITH, REACH for G-D and hold on TIGHTLY.

If you have a bible, grab it and hold it in bed with you. Somehow I feel safer when I do.

I tell you... you two ladies are the greatest. You both have a way to give me the lift I need.

Thanks,
Prayers to both of you!

Prayers to us all. I will be back in about 15 minutes. Let me know if you are still around and we can talk more.

If not, sleep well and know G-d is watching over you. And he wants it that way.

The Lord is our Shepherd and we shall not want.

We are still doing well. No re-entering of the fog, so to speak. I don't think I could ever feel that way again from what I know now, but we always have to be careful to reinforce the things we've learned to be sure that it doesn't, ya know!

I just cannot wait to get to the doc and get on something for the moodiness. It is becomeing almost unbearable. I have internalized much of it, because it really doesn't have anything to do with this sitch, as much as it does stupid, irrational things that I obsess on...the kids getting hurt or DH's sister irritating the buggers out of me or things from the past that have no meaning to me or us now (not the A, but other issues). I feel like it is eating me alive from the inside out sometimes. I do not take this out on the people around me anymore, though, so at least there is THAT! I try to take joy in the little things, in every day life, in my children and my wonderful DH. I honestly think it is a chemical thing. All of that was gone when I was on the Effexor (please watch this, btw, as it was the worst withdrawl I have ever been through in my LIFE-and I read that you were starting to take them!) I will try Wellbutrin this time, or something not quite so horrible to wean if I choose to stop taking them. Although I long for that felling of peace again where I did not obsess with every friggin thing!

Anyhoo, skinsgal, go ahead and read the story, my DH is want2stay and he posted his side of the sitch as well. My newest thread is "Newer member-question" and I think it's probably on page 5 or 6 now 'cuz I haven't posted in over a week. I think it is much more relevant as far as my progress goes, and not just the "story" of what happened. Hope it helps you like it did me! I couldn't ever thank the people here enough for their part in pulling me out of the fog (still working on it, too!)

I will check it out. Thanks.

How come you are up so late? TMTS, are you still up?

Yep, Just can't sleep. Today was a mess, and when I finally came down from it I had a 2 hr nap on my mom's sofa at about 5PM. Between that and the things running through my head...well you know how it is.

Jeremiah 29:11 "For I know the plans I have for you," says the Lord; "plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future."

Is that the one you're thinking of, SG?

Yes, that is the one. I just found it in my Tanakh and put it on my thread. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Mine reads a little different but you know that's what makes the world talk. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

TMTS are you still up?