Last night and this morning was back to WW ignoring me when I would talk to her.

WW was watching t.v. in bed last night for most of the night even though I was watching the same thing in the family room. Depression?

Did anyone watch Desperate Housewives? I know WW was watching and at one point the FIL of Gabby told her she had to leave her H's funeral or he was going to tell everyone in the eulogy that she was a "lying, cheating who**". Man, that's got to have an affect when a wayward watches that, doesn't it?

This weekend will probably be the decision point for me on the path forward. This would be the first real chance for WW and OM to get together since early Dec. Is she does her nails and wears "special" undies and takes off for a long time Friday night I'll know and if she takes off all day on Saturday and has done her special "primping" before leaving I'll know and that will be when I tell the kids and ask her to leave, Plan B time.

If she doesn't go anywhere this weekend it will be a pretty good sign that the A is over and her depression is just a sign of WD. She still hasn't answered me on whether she'll talk with SH or not. Another good sign I think. If she flat out won't talk to him she would have said so by now.

I'm surprisingly calm whichever situation comes about. I guess I'm at the point you all talk about with being ready for Plan B. Just hope I don't have to go there.

((((HFU))))

To answer your question- YES it has an affect on us to hear those things. Think of sitting with your 15yr old son and watching a very sexually explicit scene in a movie. That's the way I felt (and still feel, actually) when those kinds of things happen. Very uncomfortable.

Yes, I think depression may equal WD, I think it is very likely that is what is happening. Just be sure to make kind gestures...and if you can possibly do it, hang in there a little longer. This would be a bad time to leave or do LBs. She needs you right now, but only as much as she'll let you-you shouldn't try to force anything. Make deposits, keep things light, let her know you love her and you want everything to work out in your marriage. When she has really weak moments and breaks down, just hug her and tell her you love her. Don't push R talk just b/c you think she open to it because she's low at that moment, ya know. That's the time to just be still and BE there for her.

I hope things really are turning around. I hope she talks to Steve. I have HOPE FOR YOU, Hope for Us!

Thanks for the hug LaLa. You always pick me up (even thought you think Big Ben is a loser, I won't hold it against you).

I'm glad to hear a former wayward say that those things they see and hear on t.v. have an affect. I couldn't see how they wouldn't.

I'm doing all the kind gestures she'll let me. I did all the laundry yesterday, including her "delicates". Folded or hung everything up nicely. That's not something new as I've always done that (along with my share of the cleaning, dishes, etc), but I continue to do the stuff hoping she'll remember how I fill the domestic EN.

I would love to hug her when she's down, but right now she won't let me near her. The last time I tried to hold her hand was late Oct (pre-exposure) and you'd have thought I had a disease the way she pulled away. I haven't done the R talk in a couple months and definitely since exposure.

WW has always been independent. That's one of the things I love about her, but also hate about her. When we first got together it was one of the things that attracted me to her, that she didn't "need" me, but wanted to be with me. Now I hate that independence. I wish she "needed" me more, ya know? I agree it seems like she's in WD. This weekend will be a big test but my friend D and my admin at work both think it's over and she's not going anywhere and I tend to agree with them (one reason being the previously stated TM conversation she had with the twit).

I have hope too. Sometimes I think too much as I will get slapped down again if she does get back together with OM.

PS- I just posted some really good info from Mr. W on DrowningMan's thread. Don't want to take up a bunch of space posting it again here, please go check it out. I think it may really help you!

Take care!

Last night was bad. This morning not much better. I knew the game last night would be a trigger for her as OM is an LSU fan.

I looked at WW's cell phone this morning and the last TM showing in her phone (either sent or received) was at 8:40. But when I looked at the cell website this morning she had sent or received at least one TM at 11:50 last night which would have been at the end of the game.

I just don't know what to do. I know they haven't seen each other for at least 5 weeks. Don't know if they still communicate while WW is at work (I kind of doubt it, but again who really knows).

SH keeps wanting for me to try and get WW to talk with him, but as long as there is contact between them WW will not be responsive to that request. She still hasn't answered me from a week ago when I asked her if she would.

I feel like it's coming to the point where I need to say "either end all contact with him and work on our marriage or get out" but I don't want to push that as SH has told me that he's not too worried about some contact between them. But it's killing me. I'm finding myself beginning to really not like her (and that's being kind).

Need some encouragement that my plan is working and these little contact set backs are to be expected and as long as they aren't getting together I should just keep doing what I'm doing. But it's so hard.

That text message means that the A isn't over, imo. It may be deep underground, but they are still in contact.

Do you have any doubt that you've shown your W that you can meet her needs and be a good caring husband?

Thanks TYK.

The thing about the TM is I don't know how many there were or if OM even responded if WW is the one who sent the first TM. I know I didn't go to bed more than 10 or so minutes before the last TM that was sent (maybe the only one, I won't know for sure how many were sent until late next week) so if they were TM'ing each other it wasn't for long which makes me think he either didn't respond or the response wasn't what WW thought it would be, but who knows? But what you have said about the A not being over is what concerns me.

OMW has told me OM wants to stay in their marriage. She has also told me that in his previous A's that he's cut and ran as soon as she found out, which seems to be the case with this one from the things he's said to her etc. Is he lying this time? Could be. I know they haven't seen each other for at least 5 weeks and more probably 7-8 weeks. I'll know if they get together as he lives 4 hours away and she always gets ready in certain ways and if WW drives to see him or part way I always check her car mileage before she goes so I know. If OM comes up here I can always tell cause she uses the same lies about what she is doing, and again I can tell by how she get's ready before going. If they do get together I'm ready for the "end it or get out" speech.

But where I'm struggling is, and maybe it'll take a FWW to tell me, if the A is over as OMW seems pretty sure it is, could these TM(s) last night just be WW trying to hang on and it's just a little set back?

As far as showing WW that I can meet her needs and be a good caring husband goes, I don't know what else I can do that I wasn't doing before, that I'm not doing now. And the couple EN's that I think this f'head met for her (conversation, admiration) she won't let me get close to filling for her. She will not carry on a conversation with me no matter how hard I try (except in rare week moments the last couple weeks).

I guess what I'm asking is if the A is over, does a one time contact like this (if they aren't talking using work email/IM) necessarily mean the thing is going to take back off? Again, I don't know if OM even responded (or how) to WW's TM(s) last night. I do know he's enough of an egomaniac (OMW told me that) that he might just keep playing with WW even if it's over in his mind.

This is all just so frustrating. How do you get a WW to discuss NC, recovering the M etc when she won't even talk to you?

This would be my guess. If so, she is still in withdrawl and Dr. H is right on, as always, that you shouldn't be too concerned about it. She may have a couple more minor setbacks b4 she is finally ready to let go completely. Let her be withdrawn right now, b/c the alternative is that she is ranting and spewing constant, hurtful fog babble at you which would do NOTHING to help your frame of mind or attempts at Plan A-ing her. Do whatever she will let you do to fill her LB, but do not push it. Maybe you could try this...really bite your lip (I don't know if I could be this strong) and tell her in a very calm way that you know what she is going through is very difficult and you will be there to listen if she ever needs to talk about it. If she takes you up on it, be prepared for all kinds of ridiculous crap about her "feelings" for him and other hurtful things. Stay very quiet, hug her when she's done and (hardest, most unfair part!) thank her for letting you be there for her. Then come here and VENT! Don't feel bad if you cannot pull this off, though. Think long and hard b4 you offer, b/c the worst thing to do would be to tell her this, she opens up to you and you freak out over what she says. Remember you are dealing with the alien!!!

How long have you been in Plan A? You say your feelings for her are turning sour, at the very least. That concerns me, b/c it may be time to move to Plan B, which I think (from your post) you are considering, especially if she breaks NC. Make sure if you do decide it's time for Plan B, you talk to the Harleys first and have a solid plan with their help. Mrs. W says 85% of these cases require a PLan B, so please do not feel you've "failed" your M if you go this route. I just want to be sure you have made a good effort to fill her LB b4 you go dark, ya know!

Take care!

I've been in plan A since Sept, but really don't consider the beginning of Plan A until Nov 13, which was exposure day. That's the hard part. I've been living this crap since June/July when I first suspected something was going on, so for me it's been 7 months almost.

And I'm ready for plan B if they get together, but if they don't get together it seems like plan B would be a mistake. Like if there is just still contact, but only by email/IM/phone at work it seems her staying in the home and me plan A'ing her would be the best, but it just is so darn draining, day after day of getting nothing, not even any conversation besides short depressed/angry answers (if she answers me at all).

I'll take your word for it on the minor set backs/calls for now. My friend D just told me the same thing as you when it came to her A years ago. That after she knew it was over she still had the urge to email her OM a few times before she figured it out.

Thanks LaLa, I really appreciate all you have done to reassure me.

((((((hope))))))

I'm here for ya, buddy...seven months is a long time. Worried that when R does really start (after WD is over and re-commitment from WW) you may be drained. What are you doing to take care of yourself?

I've finally quit losing weight. I'm down 82 lbs and I wasn't that heavy before. WW actually told me I needed to quit losing, imagine that. I've been forcing myself to eat even if I'm not hungry. I'm only 7 lbs more than my H.S. graduation weight and I added quite a bit of muscle lifting weights after H.S.

I go to bed early most nights. When you sleep there is no pain (except when you dream) so I've been getting enough rest.

I think I've mentioned before, if WW would commit to working on our marriage I could go on forever, it's the not knowing (or sometimes knowing) what is going on in her fogged up brain that is so draining to me.

I'll be ok. I'm starting to recognize what are my worst triggers and trying to work through them. Today is just worse because of the trigger of LSU last night and then not getting enough sleep as I stayed up to watch the whole game. It would just be nice to have a spouse to help me work through the triggers, but at this point she could care less how I'm feeling. That's the part that makes me laugh sometimes. A couple months ago, the last time I tried to discuss her ending the A she said "it's not all about you". I told her "no, it's about you, me, our kids, our friends and families". But she is so fogged she can't see how her actions are affecting EVERYONE. She doesn't care about anyone else in this, and that is so NOT her (at least the W I know and love).

OMG I said the SAME thing for months to w2s. "It all about YOU, isn't it?" Yuck. Hard to even think about all that now. And NO-you are NOT dealing with your W, you are dealing with a selfish, unrepentant wayward ALIEN, unfortunately. How long will you be able to continue this way? Can you get through the WD?

PS-GOOD FOR YOU ON THE WEIGHT LOSS!! That's done...what else are you doing for YOU? Are you on AD's to help you cope?...nothing to be ashamed of there, ya know!

I can get through WD if I know they aren't seeing each other. I figured there was still some contact, but didn't know for sure so last night just hit me hard. I was thinking maybe she had turned a corner in that she's started responding to me sometimes (not too often, but sometimes).

I could go on forever if I know they aren't together, but I won't go on too much longer if things don't start changing for the better. I know it's a process (I like the river with the rocks analogy SH gave me and others here), but it's not going quick enough for me.

No to the AD's. Not yet anyway. Lately I've been feeling quite up so I haven't thought about them for a while. We'll see. My Dr already told me if I needed them to just give him a call.

Good, at least it's in place if you need them.

It shouldn't go on forever, though, whether they are together or not. You should not put yourself through it forever just b/c she isn't seeing him. There is a point, if she doesn't come around (or at least start to), where you need to be able to go to Plan B. A loveless M (b/c she is someone else now, and you are sick of it) for the sake of being M isn't healthy.

Now, enough about HER, what are YOU doing for enjoyment these days?

Try to stay busy at work but by the time I get home it's already dark so not much to do out side. Try to spend time with our son, but he's 15 and won't allow too much dad time, that would be uncool.

Not much else to do. Don't know anyone within 2 hours of our new town. I do go to a sports bar and watch football most weekends. I try to get our son to do stuff on the weekends, but sometimes that doesn't work. I just do stuff around the house (laundry, clean, dishes etc).

Last night was another FUN night at home.

WW was at the store when I got home from work and when she got home I helped her unload groceries and tried to engage her in conversation, and she all but ignored me. She then went upstairs and watched T.V. for a while, came downstairs, ate some toast and then went back upstairs til I went to bed.

No TMs or phone calls on her cell last night. This morning she just ignored me again when I told her to have a good day and I'd see her tonight.

I'm beginning to wonder if there had been NC in place and her TM to OM Monday night didn't get a response or the response wasn't what she wanted and she's beginning to figure out OM was just using her. Yesterday and this morning she just seems to be further into the depression than I have seen her. I don't know. Again, this weekend will be the key for me to figure out if it's plan B time or if I need to just continue plan A while she gets through WD.

What happens this weekend?

You are still very caught up in all the hypotheticals of what she's doing, what it means, etc. Thing is, you can't know. All you know is that they had some kind of contact, either your W reaching out to him or him to her and that's it. That's enough, it means that for whatever reason, the A is not over. Given your W's behavior, its reasonable to assume that it is certainly not over in her mind. Plan A is designed to show your W that you can be a good H and attempt to kill the A.

It seems to me that you've allowed your W to get pretty comfortable in Plan A. IMO, you've shown her that you can be a good H, you've expressed your desire to work on the M and are now just in a holding pattern, pondering all the ifs ands and buts of what she's doing/not doing. As it is, she has no real incentive to change. She might reach an epiphany on her own, and decide to work on the marriage, its seeming less likely at this point. What you do know is that Plan A has not succeeded in killing the A. There may be no physical contact, and that's good, but she's essentially a dry drunk now, still functioning as an addict, with all the same symptoms, just no fix.

I think its time to shake the tree and force her to realize that you are not going to exist this way for much longer.

This weekend will be the first real opportunity for them to get together in almost 2 months. If they do, it's plan B time. If not, it's a little longer in plan A.

I hear what you are saying TYK, but your post misses some point, I think.

Yes, I have been in plan A for a while. Part of plan A is to bust up the affair. There are some pretty good indications that the A has ended physically. Part of getting to recovery is WD from the A. That WD can't start until she's convinced the A is over. I think OM ended the A the first week of Dec which would mean even with that I'm only about a month into WD. I guarantee you WW is still suffering and is NOT happy (and not comfortable). But it seems to me, and SH agrees, that the A may be just ending in WW's mind now. So if that's the case, why would I risk plan B (us separating) if she's just in the middle of WD?

Make sense? You seem to be assuming that if there was this one contact Monday night that the A is full blown on again, and from others here and my friend D, that's probably not the case. Many here and D have said that in WD there is this huge pull to contact the OP, but it doesn't necessarily mean that the A will take back off. I know it's possible, but if my WW's contact Monday would have gone the way she wanted it to her mood would have been better since, IMHO.

I know what you are saying about me being caught up in the hypotheticals. Cant' help it. I'm a thinker by nature and it's just what I do.

anyway, I appreciate your advise, as always. If she doesn't get together with him this weekend (or future weekends) and things haven't started to improve by the end of Jan/Beg of Feb we'll have that heart to heart.

Dr. Harley says on this website that plan A has a time limit and at the end of that time you reevaluate. If there are improvements, keep it up for a while longer and see what happens. That's where I'm at right now. Seems the A may be over and I'll reevaluate where we're at in a month.

HFU,

Sounds like you have a real solid footing on your plan. I'm pulling for you.

Maybe you should talk to the Leaf front office... because they have no plan. It's getting real ugly in the media up here. Heads are going to roll soon. (There are even Sudin trade rumors)

Good post to Tyk, HFU, I think it helped you calm down and solidy your resolve...for now. But he is right, you cannot stay in a holding pattern forever. I think you have a great timeline. I am hoping you will start to see the cracks soon, and she will start letting you get close to her again. She sounds like a tough nut to crack, though! Maybe even more subborn than me! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> (maybe) <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

What you are doing is the kindest thing a person can do in the face of such blatant disrespect. You are a wonderful person and you will be OK no matter what happens. Try to stop obsessing on what she does and why and stick to your plan!