Joanie,<P>Thanks for the post. It is almost like she is in a very deep depression knowing that she really can't have what she wants. She gave me a birthday card telling me that this too shall pass. So I guess she wants to work on it.<P>I really think that she that she can't have this person and what she thinks is so great. The connection that I am sure that they feel. In a lot of ways they are alike and maybe that is what has attracted her. She is in a very deep denial right now and really does not want to talk about it. Sees him every day since he is across the street and kids go to the same preschool.<P>I think she does want to work on the marriage. We are in joint conseling together which has really yet to help becasue this has not come to a head yet. We really can't work on the issues until this comes out. At least that is what everyone tells me.<P>Don't understand the whole deal in that is really about make believe and not the real world. Let's face it in some ways everyday life can become mundane in all aspects. <P>It does suck. I guess we'll just keep our head down and move forward. For me I just really wish there was a road map that said if you do this you will get this reaction. Then you know what to do to solve the problem. All this unknown is what really makes it tough. As I am sure anyone on this board can tell you is that being off balance is not a good feeling. <P>Also having someone tell you that you are in the position becasue of what you have done gets old too. Why the going back and forth between good weeks days and bad? I had a good friend whos wife did the exact samething that my wife is doing. She said that it was like a trance and that males and females can't be best friends!!!<P>They are in playgroup with other couples and a couple of times it has been just the two of them. Last time that happen I said I don't want that to happen again. So last week she called everyone to make sure that there where other people there. I have talked about moving with her and she says that I am trying to control her with those thoughts. Go figure

Zip...ugh! But, I hear hope in your story. I'd keep pushing the moving to a new neighborhood. H offered to quit his job (OW is w/the same company, just different state) but I said "not right now".<P>I've come to believe that men and woman cannot be best friends and no one can tell me different. And you've probably heard this before, but you did not cause this. You two may have had problems in you marriage but she has chosen to go outside the marriage and that was her decision and hers alone. You and her are responsible for your problems, but she is the only one to blame for the affair. She may see that someday, you may too.<P>Hang in there!<P>------------------<BR>Joan <P>"Turn your wounds into wisdom..." That really cool black gal who was on Oprah all summer.<BR>

Joanie,<P>I am hoping that she does see that this type of behavior is wrong. To be honest I think she is really confussed. Confussed in that she loves what she has with the other guy (not real world and not mundane) and hates in someways what she has with me (real world and mundane). We used to have so much fun together going out together having drinks etc. We have not done that in a months. We still do stuff with friends etc. But nothing together.<P>She does not trust me and must be scared to death of not only what I think but the fallout from everyone else. I really need her open up and tell me what her feelings are. Thanks for your comments and everyone else's. As all of us know this is living hell. But in so many ways we all grow up and become better people. <P>I truly believe that she still loves me becasue she says so. But there is an inner struggle between good and bad going on here.

Zip --<P>This is sounding too much like what I'm going through, too. Like you, I just joined this board recently, and the information has been invaluable. It also seems to be consistant from so many diferent sources -- male and female, betrayers and betrayed.<P>I, too< have a W that I suspect is having either an emotional or sexual affair with a OM/H of wife's "best friend". The school connection is there, too. Since my kids are older, kids grew up closer to one and other, carpooling, etc. <P>"Friendship" has been called into question all too many times by me. W defends it as only friendship, nothing more, nothing less. Feels that she can confide in this OM, despite his being of the other sex. Apparently they have also been sharing some "marriage insights" about each of our marriages -- how scary is that!!!!<P>A couple questions before I log off for today: You kids are young, but how do they react around this OM? Any more parent/child like than adult/child?<BR>Does your W seem to be able to rearrange her schedule to accomidate playgroup (and OM), while dodging her ability to make time alone for you? Have you come home early and found anything suspicious (OM at your house, etc)?<P>In my personal situation, I confronted the OM. W has laid on the guilt big time, not just for destroying "friendship" with her "best friend", but also her H/OM. Guilt also about relationship strain between the two families kids. According to my W, her female school group friends (the two that know of our troubles) even think I'm out of line for suspecting something. Yet, my W has gone through the same stuff as yours: withdrawal, rejecting sex, cold/anger, etc.<P>I've got to run, but look forward to your response. Keep your chin up, but eyes open. Listen to some of the advice your getting.<P>Hang in there!

Zip - As promised. But the hell of it is, I'm not sure what to say. I really don't have much advice. In my post responding to your post on my latest thread, I indicated that I thought our situations were very similar except for me not knowing OM's identity and not having small kids.<P>Yeah. One big point that a number of people have made is to trust your intuition, your gut feeling. If this feeling tells you that your W is having an affair (mainly because of her distancing), unfortunately, she probably is. If you're not going to end up thinking that you're just being paranoid, you need to confirm this feeling in some way. Unfortutely, snooping on your W in one way or another probably is the way to go. And, with your looking into her phone bills, sounds like you've gotten a good start on some of this.<P>I really don't know. My W has male friends she tells me about and I have no problems with them. It's the ones she doesn't tell me about (I have a short list) that I worry about. She has even had lunch and spent the better part of the day at his house with one of these friends and it didn't bother me, because she told me about it. And yet, I KNOW she's having an affair because I saw her in a convertible with a guy she hasn't told me anything about.<P>This stuff is hell. I can't advise you on whether or not your W's relationship with the OM is sexual. Who knows? I think your best option IS to snoop, keep your eyes out. AND (if you can afford it) hire a P.I. Regards and blessings,<P>--Wex

Keystone,<P>The kids seem to have more of a parent/child relatioship then adult/child realtionship with him. But I would say that most of the kids around here have that sort of feeling since he is really the only male around during the day.<P>My wife like yours lays the guild trip on me and says that it is nothing about her friendship and everything about her and I. I think that is BS and think that it does have something to do with it. <P>Yes it is important for her to go to playgroup. There have been a number of times that it has just been the two of them there. I have told her that I don't like that at all. Sex life has all but gone away and would be curious if that is what is happening in your marriage.

Maybe a women can tell me what it means when your wife gives you a card for sweetest day and says that her heart hurting etc and that we need time. What the hell does we need time mean? Time to heal? Time to withdraw from OM?

To me, Zip, it means that she needs time to heal, maybe to work through guilt and shame, and possibly time to withdrawl from OM.<P>The BIG thing is: she's asking for time and gave you a card. She could have skipped the card, told you to *blank* off, or ignored the whole thing. I think that the card is a good sign.<BR><P>------------------<BR>~Sheryl<P>Marriage: the most important contract you'll ever enter into, and the most sacred.<P><BR>

Sheryl,<P>Don't get me wrong there are some good things that my wife does. She had my family over for my birthday and other things. I think that she is trying. The question for you after reading your posts is how do you know when it is over?

Zip,<P>Boy, you're asking this at a funny time... let's see, my H just now (just this moment, 5:06 west coast time) that he doesn't see how we'll make it, he's tired of pretending. So I'm sitting here thinking well, it must be over then. <P>He's hit the end of his rope. So, I guess that's when we know it's over... when one of us says it's over. And then I think, no, I have to be strong and fight for the marriage. I mean that IS why I'm on the MB (emphesis being on building the marriage) all the ding-dong day. Who knows, Zip? Really... <P>I'm beginning to think I have no reason to be here. I feel like such a failure and a loser... oh, man, I'm sorry I intruded with my feelings onto your post... I'm sorry.

Sheryl,<P>Hang in there. Everyone has really bad days and does not want to work hard at it. Do what you can to help your husband get through his tough time as he is trying to help you. It is almost like a see saw in that someone needss to up and someone needs to be down. Please keep your head up. My question was when do you know your affair is over. But is sounds like you are not there yet.

Zip,<P>The AFFAIR?? God grief, it has been over for four months. It was over because we both knew it was wrong. Neither wanted it to end, but we had to. Sorry I misunderstood. IT IS OVER, HAS BEEN FOR MONTHS... I AM THERE!<P>------------------<BR>~Sheryl<P>Marriage: the most important contract you'll ever enter into, and the most sacred.<P><BR>

Sheryl - I wanted to reply to you too. Just to say, "It ain't over till it's over." In the last month especially, after I confronted my W with the fact that I saw her with the OM, on several occasions she's sounded like she was outta here for good. It really does make me feel crazy when she sounds like that, because I sure don't want her to go. Some of my crazy, semi-drunken posts on this forum have been written on days like this. But then, she'll still be there in the bed when I arrive, and when I put my arm around her as we're going to sleep, she'll pull my hand up against her cheek and we'll go to sleep like that. Seems like all I really needed to do (which I did) was to say that I don't want to split. Whatever is going on in our marriage and our relationship (I tell her) I still want to stay together. After a VERY stormy last couple of weeks, in which we did have a long discussion about the possibility of splitting, we had a very, VERY sweet day today, which included a lot of holding in bed (though not lovemaking) and then doing a lot of activities together including going out to dinner. I guess what I'm saying is, maybe try something like this with your H? R & B,<P>--Wex

Wex, <P>Good for you man. Sounds like things are moving forward. I guess if we can all put ourselves in the other persons shoes we can better understand what they are going through. My wife and I really go back and forth on closeness. Something that we are further apart on right now.

Zip,<P>Forgive me for bringing this to the top again, but it really bothered me that you thought my affair wasn't over... please know... it is SOOO over!<P>You're right, I'm just having a really bad day. I am so sorry if I bummed you and made things worse for your day.<P>Here's looking toward a much better day tomorrow!<P>------------------<BR>~Sheryl<P>Marriage: the most important contract you'll ever enter into, and the most sacred.<P><BR>

Hi Zip,<P>As a stay-at-home mom, I find it strange that your wife would spend that much time on the phone with anyone. Little kids could get into a bunch of trouble with mom preoccupied. But I know that I in particular have a male friend of 20 years who I talk to all the time. My H just knew he was my friend. There is absolutely nothing romantic with my friend on the part of either one of us. In fact, now that my H has had an affair, my friend has been a great deal of support for me, as a FRIEND. There are some women though that just get along with men better than women. Women who make friends more easily with men usually have a hard time with other women because they feel they are "catty" or competitive or just plain to gossipy. I am that way. I don't want to hear gossip or things that are bad about anyone. To hold a conversation with someone (male) is sometimes nicer because they don't have all those traits and there's not a competition going on.<P>I guess what I would say is "I DON'T KNOW". Sorry. I just don't think it always means something is going on.<P>I wish you the best and God bless.

Thanks for the post. You did not say how your marriage is? But it sounds better then mine and it sounds like your husband know all along what was going on with this other person. Therein lies the confussion as to did she or didn't she. Too many red flags to say that there is nothing there.

Zip,<P>How are you today??<P>------------------<BR>~Sheryl<P>Marriage: the most important contract you'll ever enter into, and the most sacred.<P><BR>

Not bad. Really busy at work which is good. Have a conseling session tonight so that should be interesting. Think I am going to do more of keeping my mouth shut and letting her talk. Don't think the dam is ready to break yet. But it will soon enough. How are you doing?<P>

Hey Zip...let us know how tonight goes, K?<P>------------------<BR>Joan <P>"Turn your wounds into wisdom..." That really cool black gal who was on Oprah all summer.<BR>