Yes, I know this is a MB forum, but I don't know what else to do. Just so sick of the ups and downs. Here are a few of my original posts (though I don't expect anyone to read everything in them)

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...part=1&vc=1

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...rue#Post3149902

Basically my H and I can be doing ok for a while, then downhill again. Today my H refused to take a drug test. Admits he's been taking a "few" percocet here and there. I've been on this roller coaster ride for too long. He knows/admits that this is wrong and that alot of what he does is wrong, but yet does NOTHING to change it. We've been to multiple MC/IC and gotten nowhere. NOBODY has told me anything that I don't already know. I've read all of Dr. Harley's books, but it's pretty much pointless if he's not going to do his part. He ordered the course from MB and has only listened to 1 cd (ordered them over a month ago). There is NO way he will read the books. He may listen to the cd's, but again will be all talk and no action.

When do you know it's time to move on? When do you know it's ok to let go. When do you know that you'll be OK without someone you've spent 20 years of your life with? I'm only 37 - I can't live the rest of my life this unhappy/unsatisfied can I?? We have 7 yo twins who I love more than life itsself - I've stayed because of them. I just feel so hopeless like I've been spinning my wheels and going nowhere. I do feel like I could have feelings for him again, but not if he's going to meet virtually NONE of my EN's on any kind of a consistant basis. He never has - it's very easy to say you're going to do something, but alot harder to actually do it.

BTW, I know I sound very depressed in this post. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> I suppose I am. I have been to the dr. about anti d's, but they haven't helped. The root of the depression is my H not meeting my EN"s hardly @ all. No amount of medication can make anyone happy or ok in this situation - kwim? So I don't take them anymore.

I've thought very hard about seperating, but my H WILL NOT leave unless I demand it. We'd tried seperating about 6 months ago. H was gone for 3 days - basically went to work, slept and played cards. I was out doing errands on the third day - came home and he'd moved his stuff back in without even discussing it with me.

BTW - my H can be a really great guy. He's not a bad person, just very immature, irresponsible, childish. I met him when I was 17 and it's like he never grew up. I can see now that he will NEVER be the type of partner that I would choose @ 37 that I did @ 17. My flaw is that I see past the child and see the good that can be there in his heart. The good that's tainted with all of the bad.

I'd appreciate any thoughts or words of wisdom. Just so sick of going nowhere. So tired of believing in someone only to be let down repeatedly. Thanks for listening.

Well you can go to alanon, or whatever it is for drugs, and make changes in the way you interact with him. Then MAYBE he will change too.

Or you could just divorce him, which would be sad for your kids, if he is a good dad. Or even if he wasn't so good.

Things will continue to go nowhere if you do nothing. He has no reason to change.

My ex was always taking the easy way out and was very lazy. I just made my peace with the circumstances, and made a good life for myself and kids. When he cheated, I was devestated. But then I noticed there was just not that much to miss.

So he's ok sometimes but without a consist OK pattern. So how can you expect him t/b good ALL the time (within reason of course), if you don't set the boundaries?

My question to you is, what are your personal and M boundaries?

L.

First of all, thank you so much for responding. For years I've been shunned here. We are not trash as it would appear. To the outside world we look like the perfect American family. I am a soccer coach, room mother, t-ball coach etc. But WTF am I suppose to do??? I can set boundaries, but I guarantee he'll break them. Just like today. He REFUSED to take the test, but than admitted he'd taken "some" percocet. What boundary do I put forth for that? I am 100% certain he'll take them at some time. Is my boundary to never abuse drugs again? Is my boundary to don't take them, but tell me when you do or never to play cards again, miss work etc, but tell me when you do?? I CAN set the boundary, but he'll do what HE wants to do. BUT...be very good about lying about his actions. I can say to him NEVER do xyz again. He'll agree it's for the best, it's the right thing for everybody involved ... BUT he'll do what he wants to do and just lie about it. What do I do about that?

I read here about the bs's trying sooooo hard to plan A. My H has never done that, nor would he ever have the wearwithall (sp??) to do so. It's just so hard to hear if you're going to do xyz and not change then he won't either. I feel I'm doing everything I can - what more can I change?? Thank you SOO much for your help. I feel sooo alone right now - thanks for your insight.

Have you done any reading on the EN board? They talk a lot about boundaries there. A boundary is something you set for YOURSELF. You have NO CONTROL over how he responds. You let him know that you will not remain married to a man who uses drugs, and gambles. You can say it very matter of factly and without anger.

Then you go on with your life, and when the next crisis comes up, you see an attorney for seperation papers.

Callie,
You sound tired.
That makes a lot of sense........ you have been fighting this a long time.

How does this translate into every day life?
Are you barely making it from day to day?

Boundaries are an interesting topic. As has been said, they are an aid to you, not really a restriction on him. They define what you will do if he breaks them. They don't tell him what he can, or can't do. Only what you will do if he breaks them after you have set them and made the conditions clear.

As much as we would like to effect the lives of those we love, we can really only choose how we will react to what they do.

All of your choices will have a ripple effect though. They may affect the twins, and your family and friends. It may affect what they think, and how they feel about your H, and your relationship with him. Their feelings may affect your feelings.

I believe that you know these things, and that because you know, you are having a difficult time making a change that you KNOW will have that ripple down effect.

Can you get outside the box for a while, and think on what you would do if none of these other factors mattered to you?

Merry Christmas to you, and to your children. God bless you to know what to do.

SS

Aww, ss - thanks so much. I think what fanned this flame is that I was reading my posts on MB from 1 year ago. Although things are better, they are nowhere near what I thought they would be or could be. I've posted this same thing on the EN board and gotten lots of help/insight.

It's just that H WANTS to have a better life, do better, get along better etc. He can do the things he needs to do, but things always seem to revert back. Like he can never be on the correct path long enough for me to believe it's a change. Alot of this is my fault because I am 90% expecting him to fail because in the 20 + years I've been with him he always has failed. I KNOW this mentality is of no help to either of us, but I don't know how to get past it. It's like I'm ready to pounce on him with "I KNEW you couldn't do it/change". Because he's always let me down in the past.

But there is still this part of me that sees the good in him. Sees his heart, what he really wants to be in life, what he wants out of life. It's there that we can agree. But him doing the work to make himself a better person and achieve those things is almost impossible for him to do.(happy family, financially stable, good marriage etc).

Thank you SS for your words of wisdom. I appreciate your input. You have a Merry Christmas too. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

You are describing what partners of drug addicts/alcoholics go through. I hope you will go to a meeting. If you don't like the first one, try a couple different ones. It will really change your life.

Thank you believer - I've just located a few meetings not so locally. The reason that I never went to a meeting upon the urging of the rehab dr's/nurses is because I was so humiliated by just walking through the doors of the rehab center with H. Seeing the people in there was out of my world. Just people from completely different walks of life. I just always thought I would see the same thing @ alanon.

I will go to a meeting after the first of the year. I have plans to go to Disney World with my family, my parents and my sisters family on Christmas Day for 10 days. I want to ensure that we have the best Christmas that we can. Thanks so much for your input.

LOL, Callie....... At my first Alanon meeting, I stayed out in the car! I was MORTIFIED to be there. I watched all the people go in and then left.

There is nothing shameful in doing a program that will help you and your family.

You will find people from all walks of life, people just like YOU.

Can you tell me how alanon helped you? Not to be presumptuous (SP??) but if I recall, you are D? Why did you go to alanon? Did it help you to make that decision to D? Not sure of your story, but would love to hear it. Never in my entire life did I ever think I would be in this situation. Ever. But I am. I can either find the courage to move on or make it right with my family. As always, the reigns are in MY hands. H will not take them. That is part of my HUGE frustration. Thanks so much for your help. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I went to Alanon years ago because my first husband was an abusive alcoholic. He had a real nice side too, though, in between the beatings. I didn't have to divorce him because the drugs and alcohol killed him. He was 35 when he had his first heart attack after a night of meth.

Many of the problems we have in life can be overcome by increasing our skills. I believe that going to these meetings would help with that. Listen to believer, she knows what she is talking about.

When one sets firm boundaries, one must be prepared to follow through, or the boundary does not really exist. It looks like he doesn't believe the boundaries really exist.

Cloud and Townsend wrote a book called Boundaries.
I have a copy, and it was useful to me, but not as helpful as Harleys books have been. I recommended it to one person on MB a few years back and they read it, but came back with the reply "If I do what the book suggests, and my spouse breaks the boundary, it may mean I get a D, and I don't want that." Firm boundaries often bring about change, but make sure it's a change you are willing to live with. Think about that part, and decide how badly you want change, or if you are willing to live with what you have for a while longer.

I felt bad seeing you return with little or no change in your situation. I would feel badly if your family was broken up too. I just wish you could get a rest....... say for the rest of your life? The best rest would be a H who was giving you all the help you need.

Are you completely over the circumstances that brought you here in the beginning? Or do you still wonder sometimes?

SS

OMG - so sorry. I had no idea - my apologies for even asking. My H has never layed a hand on me thankfully. Again, so sorry for even asking.

Callie - It is a strange thing. My husband was a wonderful father at times. He was a very good man at times too. He was usually kind and caring toward everyone.

However he had another side. He was a pipewelder and worked long hours. It was common to do drugs on the job. Then he added the drinking and at times would get very violent.

I got to the point where I was worried when he didn't come home, but then dreaded it when I heard his truck pull in.

SS - the truth about OM...I still think about him all of the time. He's even there in my dreams. He was the complete opposite of my H in every aspect. I would do anything to be able to move on from him, but in truth 2.5 laters I've not - as hard as I've tried. I've tried to fill that void with H, but it doesn't come close. I don't talk to him but a few times a year. I see him in passing every now an then. Even w/o spoken words, I know how he feels and he knows how I feel. A life with him would be completely different than what I know now. But it would also bring problems, because he's not the father of my kids. I've made my H out to be ok in the public eye, when in reality he's not been ok nor never has been. With H it is someone who will think of himself first, complete selfishness, could care less about the garden hose that's laying in the yard under the snow freezing and about to burst. Could care about the trash that needs taken out, care less about the SUV that needs an oil change, the garage that needs tending to, the dog that needs to go the the vet. Call it fog, call it whatever you like, but he is 100% the polar opposite of OM. An H who could care less about that stuff.

Yes, ALOT of it is about OM - who met my expectations as opposed to an H who doesn't come close. After 2.5 years is it still a fog? Or is it reality that my H will never be enough.

I know I'll get slammed here, but to compare the 2 are apples and oranges in my eyes and the 4 IC/MC's eyes that I/We've seen. I'm dealing with more than most here. Drugs, PA's, gambling, financial crap, missing work, irresponsibility etc. I just hope that those who read this will look @ my whole story.

Sorry for asking SS? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Yes, I still think about him every day. Think of what my life could have been like if I would not have put the blinders on with H. If "I" had looked at the problems "AS" they occured. Rather than "seeing the good in him and hoping he'd change." After 20+ years together I NOW realize that "I" cannot change him.

SS - thanks so much.

SS - the truth about OM...I still think about him all of the time. He's even there in my dreams. He was the complete opposite of my H in every aspect. I would do anything to be able to move on from him, but in truth 2.5 laters I've not - as hard as I've tried. I've tried to fill that void with H, but it doesn't come close. I don't talk to him but a few times a year. I see him in passing every now an then. Even w/o spoken words, I know how he feels and he knows how I feel. A life with him would be completely different than what I know now. But it would also bring problems, because he's not the father of my kids. I've made my H out to be ok in the public eye, when in reality he's not been ok nor never has been. With H it is someone who will think of himself first, complete selfishness, could care less about the garden hose that's laying in the yard under the snow freezing and about to burst. Could care about the trash that needs taken out, care less about the SUV that needs an oil change, the garage that needs tending to, the dog that needs to go the the vet. Call it fog, call it whatever you like, but he is 100% the polar opposite of OM. An H who could care less about that stuff.

Yes, ALOT of it is about OM - who met my expectations as opposed to an H who doesn't come close. After 2.5 years is it still a fog? Or is it reality that my H will never be enough.

I know I'll get slammed here, but to compare the 2 are apples and oranges in my eyes and the 4 IC/MC's eyes that I/We've seen. I'm dealing with more than most here. Drugs, PA's, gambling, financial crap, missing work, irresponsibility etc. I just hope that those who read this will look @ my whole story.

Sorry for asking SS? Yes, I still think about him every day. Think of what my life could have been like if I would not have put the blinders on with H. If "I" had looked at the problems "AS" they occured. Rather than "seeing the good in him and hoping he'd change." After 20+ years together I NOW realize that "I" cannot change him.

SS - thanks so much.

Somewhat the same thing here believer. My H works in a factory, where it is very common to exchange stuff here and there (drugs) when his dependancy got so strong, he ended up with "dealer" but not one like you see in the movies KWIM? My H has NEVER gotten violent - ever. Which I'm glad for. If you saw him, you'd never suspect. If you KNEW him you would, but just upon first glance - never would you expect his turmoil.

As you, I worry about him ALOT. He'd think nothing about driving 100+MPH home w/o a seatbelt. ME?? I'm the complete opposite - I'm buckled in, kids in booster seats, and obeying the speed limit.

Sometimes I feel like I am responsible for him and his mentality. Like if things are bad here, he'd think not much or doing xy or z to end it all.

Geeze, I feel like I am dealing with a total psychotic here. KWIM? Like I KNOW what to do to hype him up or calm him down.

How many kids do you have and what are their ages?

Just like you, my H can be a VERY good man/father. In his own twisted way he DOES love me. BUT he loves himself more and will almost 100% put himself first. Consciously or subconsciously.

I'm not sorry for asking. I really wanted to know how you are. Your answer tells me a lot about the torment you have lived with these last few years.

You say you may get slammed. Well.......... you may.

I think there are a lot of men out there in the world who could make you a lot happier than your H. All of us have our bad sides, some as bad as your H, but there are many who would be a lot better. Of course, the problem with OM is that you are married, and so is He. I don't think you could ever make this into a good thing, because of how it started.

I feel for you. To say I "understand" may be a stretch, because I haven't lived with what you have lived with........ and you have lived with it for far too long. However, I care, and I would like to see you in a relationship were you could be equals, not in charge. I know it would make a world of difference, and you know it too. This is one of those cases where the grass probably is greener on the other side, and no amount of fertilizer on your side will make much change.

You still get to decide about boundaries. I think many of us look for ways to change things we really have no power to change. We can wait, and hope, and do the little bit we have the power to do, or we can leave.

OR we can increase our skills, and make other drastic changes short of leaving. I wonder if there are still things you can try..... attending the meetings believer talked about is probably one thing that can make a difference.

One thing for sure - and I hope you can feel it when you come.
We care, we want you to be happy, and we hurt when you are not. Don't ever think no one cares, or that you can't get any help.

Prayers continue.

SS

I think there are a lot of men out there in the world who could make you a lot happier than your H. All of us have our bad sides, some as bad as your H, but there are many who would be a lot better. Of course, the problem with OM is that you are married, and so is He. I don't think you could ever make this into a good thing, because of how it started.


Thank you so much SS. I was very hesitant to even post here because I feel so stupid - but I have no idea where to turn for "Sane help". The same problems over and over. Me believing.believing.believing. I knew you'd probably see my post (although secretly I was hoping you wouldn't...because you've been so helpful to me and for me to keep spinning, spinning,spinning. ) I feel like that is a total disappointment to you and what you've contributed.)

Although I am totally dreading it, I'm going to go to a few alanon meetings in hopes that I can find something for myself. The hardest thing for me to deal with is that I DID NOT sign up for this crap -- KWIM?? I just want to live a normal, family, remotely happy life. But with the crap that is on my plate, I cannot. I don't have to be blissfully happy, my life is not about me. It's first and foremost about my kids - but I don't want my kids learning from my H. I want them learning from my father, my brother etc. I don't want H teaching them his crap or his baggage. The sad thing about it is that he doesn't either, but he doesn't know how to/cannot stop this.

Thanks SS - I appreciate your loyality.