Yes, I know this is a MB forum, but I don't know what else to do. Just so sick of the ups and downs. Here are a few of my original posts (though I don't expect anyone to read everything in them)
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...part=1&vc=1http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...rue#Post3149902Basically my H and I can be doing ok for a while, then downhill again. Today my H refused to take a drug test. Admits he's been taking a "few" percocet here and there. I've been on this roller coaster ride for too long. He knows/admits that this is wrong and that alot of what he does is wrong, but yet does NOTHING to change it. We've been to multiple MC/IC and gotten nowhere. NOBODY has told me anything that I don't already know. I've read all of Dr. Harley's books, but it's pretty much pointless if he's not going to do his part. He ordered the course from MB and has only listened to 1 cd (ordered them over a month ago). There is NO way he will read the books. He may listen to the cd's, but again will be all talk and no action.
When do you know it's time to move on? When do you know it's ok to let go. When do you know that you'll be OK without someone you've spent 20 years of your life with? I'm only 37 - I can't live the rest of my life this unhappy/unsatisfied can I?? We have 7 yo twins who I love more than life itsself - I've stayed because of them. I just feel so hopeless like I've been spinning my wheels and going nowhere. I do feel like I could have feelings for him again, but not if he's going to meet virtually NONE of my EN's on any kind of a consistant basis. He never has - it's very easy to say you're going to do something, but alot harder to actually do it.
BTW, I know I sound very depressed in this post. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> I suppose I am. I have been to the dr. about anti d's, but they haven't helped. The root of the depression is my H not meeting my EN"s hardly @ all. No amount of medication can make anyone happy or ok in this situation - kwim? So I don't take them anymore.
I've thought very hard about seperating, but my H WILL NOT leave unless I demand it. We'd tried seperating about 6 months ago. H was gone for 3 days - basically went to work, slept and played cards. I was out doing errands on the third day - came home and he'd moved his stuff back in without even discussing it with me.
BTW - my H can be a really great guy. He's not a bad person, just very immature, irresponsible, childish. I met him when I was 17 and it's like he never grew up. I can see now that he will NEVER be the type of partner that I would choose @ 37 that I did @ 17. My flaw is that I see past the child and see the good that can be there in his heart. The good that's tainted with all of the bad.
I'd appreciate any thoughts or words of wisdom. Just so sick of going nowhere. So tired of believing in someone only to be let down repeatedly. Thanks for listening.
Well you can go to alanon, or whatever it is for drugs, and make changes in the way you interact with him. Then MAYBE he will change too.
Or you could just divorce him, which would be sad for your kids, if he is a good dad. Or even if he wasn't so good.
Things will continue to go nowhere if you do nothing. He has no reason to change.
My ex was always taking the easy way out and was very lazy. I just made my peace with the circumstances, and made a good life for myself and kids. When he cheated, I was devestated. But then I noticed there was just not that much to miss.
So he's ok sometimes but without a consist OK pattern. So how can you expect him t/b good ALL the time (within reason of course), if you don't set the boundaries?
My question to you is, what are your personal and M boundaries?
L.
First of all, thank you so much for responding. For years I've been shunned here. We are not trash as it would appear. To the outside world we look like the perfect American family. I am a soccer coach, room mother, t-ball coach etc. But WTF am I suppose to do??? I can set boundaries, but I guarantee he'll break them. Just like today. He REFUSED to take the test, but than admitted he'd taken "some" percocet. What boundary do I put forth for that? I am 100% certain he'll take them at some time. Is my boundary to never abuse drugs again? Is my boundary to don't take them, but tell me when you do or never to play cards again, miss work etc, but tell me when you do?? I CAN set the boundary, but he'll do what HE wants to do. BUT...be very good about lying about his actions. I can say to him NEVER do xyz again. He'll agree it's for the best, it's the right thing for everybody involved ... BUT he'll do what he wants to do and just lie about it. What do I do about that?
I read here about the bs's trying sooooo hard to plan A. My H has never done that, nor would he ever have the wearwithall (sp??) to do so. It's just so hard to hear if you're going to do xyz and not change then he won't either. I feel I'm doing everything I can - what more can I change?? Thank you SOO much for your help. I feel sooo alone right now - thanks for your insight.
Have you done any reading on the EN board? They talk a lot about boundaries there. A boundary is something you set for YOURSELF. You have NO CONTROL over how he responds. You let him know that you will not remain married to a man who uses drugs, and gambles. You can say it very matter of factly and without anger.
Then you go on with your life, and when the next crisis comes up, you see an attorney for seperation papers.
Callie,
You sound tired.
That makes a lot of sense........ you have been fighting this a long time.
How does this translate into every day life?
Are you barely making it from day to day?
Boundaries are an interesting topic. As has been said, they are an aid to you, not really a restriction on him. They define what you will do if he breaks them. They don't tell him what he can, or can't do. Only what you will do if he breaks them after you have set them and made the conditions clear.
As much as we would like to effect the lives of those we love, we can really only choose how we will react to what they do.
All of your choices will have a ripple effect though. They may affect the twins, and your family and friends. It may affect what they think, and how they feel about your H, and your relationship with him. Their feelings may affect your feelings.
I believe that you know these things, and that because you know, you are having a difficult time making a change that you KNOW will have that ripple down effect.
Can you get outside the box for a while, and think on what you would do if none of these other factors mattered to you?
Merry Christmas to you, and to your children. God bless you to know what to do.
SS
Aww, ss - thanks so much. I think what fanned this flame is that I was reading my posts on MB from 1 year ago. Although things are better, they are nowhere near what I thought they would be or could be. I've posted this same thing on the EN board and gotten lots of help/insight.
It's just that H WANTS to have a better life, do better, get along better etc. He can do the things he needs to do, but things always seem to revert back. Like he can never be on the correct path long enough for me to believe it's a change. Alot of this is my fault because I am 90% expecting him to fail because in the 20 + years I've been with him he always has failed. I KNOW this mentality is of no help to either of us, but I don't know how to get past it. It's like I'm ready to pounce on him with "I KNEW you couldn't do it/change". Because he's always let me down in the past.
But there is still this part of me that sees the good in him. Sees his heart, what he really wants to be in life, what he wants out of life. It's there that we can agree. But him doing the work to make himself a better person and achieve those things is almost impossible for him to do.(happy family, financially stable, good marriage etc).
Thank you SS for your words of wisdom. I appreciate your input. You have a Merry Christmas too. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
You are describing what partners of drug addicts/alcoholics go through. I hope you will go to a meeting. If you don't like the first one, try a couple different ones. It will really change your life.
Thank you believer - I've just located a few meetings not so locally. The reason that I never went to a meeting upon the urging of the rehab dr's/nurses is because I was so humiliated by just walking through the doors of the rehab center with H. Seeing the people in there was out of my world. Just people from completely different walks of life. I just always thought I would see the same thing @ alanon.
I will go to a meeting after the first of the year. I have plans to go to Disney World with my family, my parents and my sisters family on Christmas Day for 10 days. I want to ensure that we have the best Christmas that we can. Thanks so much for your input.
LOL, Callie....... At my first Alanon meeting, I stayed out in the car! I was MORTIFIED to be there. I watched all the people go in and then left.
There is nothing shameful in doing a program that will help you and your family.
You will find people from all walks of life, people just like YOU.
Can you tell me how alanon helped you? Not to be presumptuous (SP??) but if I recall, you are D? Why did you go to alanon? Did it help you to make that decision to D? Not sure of your story, but would love to hear it. Never in my entire life did I ever think I would be in this situation. Ever. But I am. I can either find the courage to move on or make it right with my family. As always, the reigns are in MY hands. H will not take them. That is part of my HUGE frustration. Thanks so much for your help. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
I went to Alanon years ago because my first husband was an abusive alcoholic. He had a real nice side too, though, in between the beatings. I didn't have to divorce him because the drugs and alcohol killed him. He was 35 when he had his first heart attack after a night of meth.
Many of the problems we have in life can be overcome by increasing our skills. I believe that going to these meetings would help with that. Listen to believer, she knows what she is talking about.
When one sets firm boundaries, one must be prepared to follow through, or the boundary does not really exist. It looks like he doesn't believe the boundaries really exist.
Cloud and Townsend wrote a book called Boundaries.
I have a copy, and it was useful to me, but not as helpful as Harleys books have been. I recommended it to one person on MB a few years back and they read it, but came back with the reply "If I do what the book suggests, and my spouse breaks the boundary, it may mean I get a D, and I don't want that." Firm boundaries often bring about change, but make sure it's a change you are willing to live with. Think about that part, and decide how badly you want change, or if you are willing to live with what you have for a while longer.
I felt bad seeing you return with little or no change in your situation. I would feel badly if your family was broken up too. I just wish you could get a rest....... say for the rest of your life? The best rest would be a H who was giving you all the help you need.
Are you completely over the circumstances that brought you here in the beginning? Or do you still wonder sometimes?
SS
OMG - so sorry. I had no idea - my apologies for even asking. My H has never layed a hand on me thankfully. Again, so sorry for even asking.
Callie - It is a strange thing. My husband was a wonderful father at times. He was a very good man at times too. He was usually kind and caring toward everyone.
However he had another side. He was a pipewelder and worked long hours. It was common to do drugs on the job. Then he added the drinking and at times would get very violent.
I got to the point where I was worried when he didn't come home, but then dreaded it when I heard his truck pull in.
SS - the truth about OM...I still think about him all of the time. He's even there in my dreams. He was the complete opposite of my H in every aspect. I would do anything to be able to move on from him, but in truth 2.5 laters I've not - as hard as I've tried. I've tried to fill that void with H, but it doesn't come close. I don't talk to him but a few times a year. I see him in passing every now an then. Even w/o spoken words, I know how he feels and he knows how I feel. A life with him would be completely different than what I know now. But it would also bring problems, because he's not the father of my kids. I've made my H out to be ok in the public eye, when in reality he's not been ok nor never has been. With H it is someone who will think of himself first, complete selfishness, could care less about the garden hose that's laying in the yard under the snow freezing and about to burst. Could care about the trash that needs taken out, care less about the SUV that needs an oil change, the garage that needs tending to, the dog that needs to go the the vet. Call it fog, call it whatever you like, but he is 100% the polar opposite of OM. An H who could care less about that stuff.
Yes, ALOT of it is about OM - who met my expectations as opposed to an H who doesn't come close. After 2.5 years is it still a fog? Or is it reality that my H will never be enough.
I know I'll get slammed here, but to compare the 2 are apples and oranges in my eyes and the 4 IC/MC's eyes that I/We've seen. I'm dealing with more than most here. Drugs, PA's, gambling, financial crap, missing work, irresponsibility etc. I just hope that those who read this will look @ my whole story.
Sorry for asking SS? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Yes, I still think about him every day. Think of what my life could have been like if I would not have put the blinders on with H. If "I" had looked at the problems "AS" they occured. Rather than "seeing the good in him and hoping he'd change." After 20+ years together I NOW realize that "I" cannot change him.
SS - thanks so much.
SS - the truth about OM...I still think about him all of the time. He's even there in my dreams. He was the complete opposite of my H in every aspect. I would do anything to be able to move on from him, but in truth 2.5 laters I've not - as hard as I've tried. I've tried to fill that void with H, but it doesn't come close. I don't talk to him but a few times a year. I see him in passing every now an then. Even w/o spoken words, I know how he feels and he knows how I feel. A life with him would be completely different than what I know now. But it would also bring problems, because he's not the father of my kids. I've made my H out to be ok in the public eye, when in reality he's not been ok nor never has been. With H it is someone who will think of himself first, complete selfishness, could care less about the garden hose that's laying in the yard under the snow freezing and about to burst. Could care about the trash that needs taken out, care less about the SUV that needs an oil change, the garage that needs tending to, the dog that needs to go the the vet. Call it fog, call it whatever you like, but he is 100% the polar opposite of OM. An H who could care less about that stuff.
Yes, ALOT of it is about OM - who met my expectations as opposed to an H who doesn't come close. After 2.5 years is it still a fog? Or is it reality that my H will never be enough.
I know I'll get slammed here, but to compare the 2 are apples and oranges in my eyes and the 4 IC/MC's eyes that I/We've seen. I'm dealing with more than most here. Drugs, PA's, gambling, financial crap, missing work, irresponsibility etc. I just hope that those who read this will look @ my whole story.
Sorry for asking SS? Yes, I still think about him every day. Think of what my life could have been like if I would not have put the blinders on with H. If "I" had looked at the problems "AS" they occured. Rather than "seeing the good in him and hoping he'd change." After 20+ years together I NOW realize that "I" cannot change him.
SS - thanks so much.
Somewhat the same thing here believer. My H works in a factory, where it is very common to exchange stuff here and there (drugs) when his dependancy got so strong, he ended up with "dealer" but not one like you see in the movies KWIM? My H has NEVER gotten violent - ever. Which I'm glad for. If you saw him, you'd never suspect. If you KNEW him you would, but just upon first glance - never would you expect his turmoil.
As you, I worry about him ALOT. He'd think nothing about driving 100+MPH home w/o a seatbelt. ME?? I'm the complete opposite - I'm buckled in, kids in booster seats, and obeying the speed limit.
Sometimes I feel like I am responsible for him and his mentality. Like if things are bad here, he'd think not much or doing xy or z to end it all.
Geeze, I feel like I am dealing with a total psychotic here. KWIM? Like I KNOW what to do to hype him up or calm him down.
How many kids do you have and what are their ages?
Just like you, my H can be a VERY good man/father. In his own twisted way he DOES love me. BUT he loves himself more and will almost 100% put himself first. Consciously or subconsciously.
I'm not sorry for asking. I really wanted to know how you are. Your answer tells me a lot about the torment you have lived with these last few years.
You say you may get slammed. Well.......... you may.
I think there are a lot of men out there in the world who could make you a lot happier than your H. All of us have our bad sides, some as bad as your H, but there are many who would be a lot better. Of course, the problem with OM is that you are married, and so is He. I don't think you could ever make this into a good thing, because of how it started.
I feel for you. To say I "understand" may be a stretch, because I haven't lived with what you have lived with........ and you have lived with it for far too long. However, I care, and I would like to see you in a relationship were you could be equals, not in charge. I know it would make a world of difference, and you know it too. This is one of those cases where the grass probably is greener on the other side, and no amount of fertilizer on your side will make much change.
You still get to decide about boundaries. I think many of us look for ways to change things we really have no power to change. We can wait, and hope, and do the little bit we have the power to do, or we can leave.
OR we can increase our skills, and make other drastic changes short of leaving. I wonder if there are still things you can try..... attending the meetings believer talked about is probably one thing that can make a difference.
One thing for sure - and I hope you can feel it when you come.
We care, we want you to be happy, and we hurt when you are not. Don't ever think no one cares, or that you can't get any help.
Prayers continue.
SS
I think there are a lot of men out there in the world who could make you a lot happier than your H. All of us have our bad sides, some as bad as your H, but there are many who would be a lot better. Of course, the problem with OM is that you are married, and so is He. I don't think you could ever make this into a good thing, because of how it started.
Thank you so much SS. I was very hesitant to even post here because I feel so stupid - but I have no idea where to turn for "Sane help". The same problems over and over. Me believing.believing.believing. I knew you'd probably see my post (although secretly I was hoping you wouldn't...because you've been so helpful to me and for me to keep spinning, spinning,spinning. ) I feel like that is a total disappointment to you and what you've contributed.)
Although I am totally dreading it, I'm going to go to a few alanon meetings in hopes that I can find something for myself. The hardest thing for me to deal with is that I DID NOT sign up for this crap -- KWIM?? I just want to live a normal, family, remotely happy life. But with the crap that is on my plate, I cannot. I don't have to be blissfully happy, my life is not about me. It's first and foremost about my kids - but I don't want my kids learning from my H. I want them learning from my father, my brother etc. I don't want H teaching them his crap or his baggage. The sad thing about it is that he doesn't either, but he doesn't know how to/cannot stop this.
Thanks SS - I appreciate your loyality.
One mistake you are making is thinking that some man is going to solve your problems. This is something that YOU need to step up and solve for YOURSELF.
And please don't babble about how your life would change with a man who is MARRIED. Right there he shows me that he is NOT an honorable man.
Believer - Rationally I KNOW that a man won't solve my problems or make ma happy. You say he's not an honorable man - I could agree with that somewhat - but can you elaborate?? I really am trying to keep H and OM seperate. I've also thought ALOT about being on my own, I could do it, but am afraid of succombing to H just because of the embarassment of what "I've done" and because he's "what I know". AND because he's my kid's dad.
If it was easy, you would have already made it work long before now. It's not easy.
All of us cope with our own problems - or as someone once said "We all have our own cross to bear."
I think that is true - but they are custom crosses, designed for each person who carries them. Never more than we can bear, as long as we get God's help with the burden.
I don't know if you continue to pray, but I would guess that you do. I hope you do, because I know you can find help, and relief there. Sometimes we want God to do things on our time table, and we don't understand why he won't. I know he helps in ways that are best for us. I also know that he doesn't make any mistakes, and that his timing is always perfect, but it's still difficult to live through each day and not wonder what's going to become of us. (and if I can read a little into this, you also wonder if you WILL ever get to live a normal life, and be happy.)
When I saw you post again, I wondered if I should stay way. I am not sure if I have been much help to you as far as your ability to actually make changes, and see any different results.
I am disappointed that you are still in such a bad situation, but not in you - yourself. We are all in this world together, and it is good for us to help each other as much as we are able to. I am not so good that I know exactly what you should do. God does know though, so keep doing your personal best, and keep praying. I am sure it will be made plain to you in time.
(That would be
God's time, try really hard not to get impatient.) <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
Our twins are 14 now, and doing well - or mostly well. I think yours just had a B-day recently. I hope you all had a good time.
Believer, keep commenting, you are doing so well.
SS
Well, the way I look at it, you SHOULD NOT be depending on your husband. He is not making good choices.
The OM has a WIFE. That makes him not honorable in my book, or he wouldn't be interested in you. If he is miserable in his marriage, he needs to fix it, or DIVORCE.
The way I see it, YOU are the one that needs to do the heavy work.
Can you support yourself without your husband?
An honorable man will not confess feelings for, express love for, or make any plans to be with - another man's wife.
If he was approached, he would say something like "It is wrong to be discussing any thing like this, and I won't be any part of it." Then he would remove himself from the situation.
Of course, believer should still answer for her self too.
SS
YES, SS! My kids are "7" I cannot believe it. I continue to be amazed at them. They are SUCH good kids and SO well adapted. Thank you so much for asking. You know I keep thinking. They are 7 right now. I've got about 11 years worth of impact on them. Of forming who they'll be, what their morals and values will be. No doubt I'll impose what is instilled in me - but just so HUGE. KWIM? I think about myself alot - my situation alot. I HOPE that I can instill in my ds to never treat his w or any woman the way his father has treated me. I HOPE that I can instill in my dd to never tolerate what I have. I hope BOTH can be more honorable than what I've tolerated or what my H has dished out.
Sometimes I think I try so hard to keep something intact - when in fact it should have been dismantled long ago. Is DIVORCE ever a good option??? Never did I think I would let myself self destruct to the point that I have. All for the sake of doing right, doing what's right for my kids. But in reality maybe it's the worst thing that I could have done. KWIM??
Believer, can you elaborate NOT depending on my H? I mean I guess I've ALWAYS had an alternative itinerary (sp??) for myself and my kids. I've always got xyz bills paid off in case we D. In a sense I've got all my ducks in a row. Right now I can very meagerly rely on myself.
Really nice site, Callie. I suggest you start getting yourself ready. Then go to a support group. It will change your life. But you need to approach this as a strong, calm woman.
"SS - the truth about OM...I still think about him all of the time. He's even there in my dreams. He was the complete opposite of my H in every aspect. I would do anything to be able to move on from him, but in truth 2.5 laters I've not - as hard as I've tried. I've tried to fill that void with H, but it doesn't come close. I don't talk to him but a few times a year. I see him in passing every now an then. Even w/o spoken words, I know how he feels and he knows how I feel. A life with him would be completely different than what I know now. But it would also bring problems, because he's not the father of my kids. I've made my H out to be ok in the public eye, when in reality he's not been ok nor never has been. With H it is someone who will think of himself first, complete selfishness, could care less about the garden hose that's laying in the yard under the snow freezing and about to burst. Could care about the trash that needs taken out, care less about the SUV that needs an oil change, the garage that needs tending to, the dog that needs to go the the vet. Call it fog, call it whatever you like, but he is 100% the polar opposite of OM. An H who could care less about that stuff.
Yes, ALOT of it is about OM - who met my expectations as opposed to an H who doesn't come close. After 2.5 years is it still a fog? Or is it reality that my H will never be enough."
IMHO you are still very foggy, still fantasizing about the OM, still not accepting of any possibility of permanent improvement in your BH, partly because you still have some contact with the OM and are still trying to justify to yourself a possible future with the OM.
Why are you still talking to the OM on occasion and exchanging glances that you interpret to mean something more is mutually desired? IMHO, regardless of your husband's problems, YOU cannot honestly claim to be giving your marriage a chance until you totally stop that inappropriate contact with the OM.
In fairness to you it doesn't sound as if your BH is all that great, and you may be right in your assessment that he may never change for the good...
But IMHO you are not in a position to give him and your marriage a fair/fighting chance as long as you keep thinking of the married OM as your back-up plan and/or as the one you wish you were married to. Even if the odds are stacked pretty high against your husband pulling off the changes he needs to make, you still owe it to him to stop all contact with the OM and stop comparing your husband to the OM.
If you and your husband do end up divorced, it should TRULY have nothing whatsoever to do with the OM (and I don't mean in the way that WS's typically deny the demise of the marriage has nothing to do with the OP). REALLY you should get the OM totally out of your life/heart/mind FIRST, THEN give your marriage and husband your absolute best shot for recovery, and then divorce if you must BUT never have anything to do with the married OM even after divorce.
I agree about attending the support meetings. IMHO you should also be getting individual counseling that will address both how to deal with your husband's problems AND how to get over your false hopes regarding another woman's husband.
Apparently your husband can't compete with that OM, you view the OM as superior in many ways... and he may well be better than your husband on many or even most ways... but that's not the point. Your husband is still your husband, and the OM is somebody else's husband. You absolutely cannot give your marriage a fighting chance as long as you continue to reserve some hope that you and the OM may end up together.
The odds against your husband and marriage are steep enough, your situation already bad enough, without you making unfair comparisons and having OM in your thoughts.
It may be that you will and even should divorce your husband. But it should in no way be because you still want the OM. If you divorce it's OK to hope to marry a better man someday - but NOT the OM.
If the OM truly were an honorable man he would have made it completely clear to you by now that he will not destroy his marriage and wife by further entertaining even the faintest hope or agenda of a future with you.
BTW, I'm willing to bet big that the OM also sometimes forgets to take out the trash, leaves the garden hose in the yard, etc. too. In fact I'd bet that if his wife could read your complaints about your husband and assumption that her husband never does those thigns, she would be ROFL! You don't really know what it would be like to be the OM's wife; all you know about him is the positive image of him that he wanted you to see. And even if he is better than your BH in those particular ways, I can guarantee you that he does have his own faults, maybe even some worse ones than your BH, that you don't even know about. So what if the OM takes out the trash without having to be asked to? That's between him and his wife. And you have no idea what flaws he has, the things he forgets to do, that his wife has to put up with. For all you know his wife might wish he was more like your husband in some ways. Nobody is perfect - ESPECIALLY married men who are willing to cheat on their wives!!! I guarantee you that OM has many a flaw besides the obvious one... you just don't know him as well as his wife does.
What you seem to be doing is LOOKING FOR faults in your husband. Sure he has some MAJOR problems - I'm not denying that - but listing all those things he fails to do, and making the comparison to the OM, says more about a negative trait in you than in your BH IMHO. It is never appropriate to put your spouse down while comparing them to an OP IMHO. And it is not fair either. EVEN if it's true, that the OP is better than your spouse in those ways, it's still wrong.
You cannot possibly give your spouse and marriage a fair chance while doing that. NO mere mortal could compete and win against even the faintest of opposition that way.
EVERY single woman who crosses your husband's path has something about her that is superior to you in some way... one may be a better cook, another may earn more money than you, while another spends more time at homemaking than you, this one has prettier legs, that one has nicer hair... But each one of them is also a mere mortal who is not only better than you in some way, but also less than you in some way too.
If you cannot think of (or remember) ANY ways that your husband is better than the OM, if you cannot see that the OM is less than your husband in SOME ways, then you are viewing the OM's attributes through a very thick fog and not coming anywhere near giving your husband and marriage a real chance for recovery.
IMHO a major change YOU need to make, regardless of whether or not your BH pulls off making the major changes he needs to make, is that you need to stop looking for flaws in your husband as a way of justifying your continued infatuation with the OM.
ADDED: AFTER you stop ALL CONTACT with the OM, then you will start withdrawal. You haven't been in withdrawal for 2.5 years so of course you are still foggy. When you last saw the OM, or last talked to him, your withdrawal started all over again at that moment. And even if your BH makes every single positive change he needs to make, unless you stop seeing and talking to the OM, you will not get over the OM and appreciate your BH. BTW, does the OM's wife, and your husband, know you still have occasional contact with her husband?
Callie,
I think you are good with colors -
This from one with little ability himself.
MM has some good questions for you. I also believe that contact with OM is not wise, nor do I believe it is good for you in any way. I think you need fresh air, but I am hoping you can find it in other ways.
I hurt so much when I think of all you have endured. I can imagine you wondering "Don't I deserve to have a better life, and not have to worry about all these things that sap my strength, and take away my peace of mind?"
I think you do. I really think you do.
There are right and wrong ways to get peace of mind. I think you have kept your self where you are because you understand that. BTW, going after peace of mind the wrong way won't really bring peace, just more turmoil.
I hope you see in MM's post....... the concern for you, and for your happiness. I would recommend you read it once a day for three days. (no I'm not kidding.)
I believe you will pick up new things each time, and the last time, you will be able to see how the advice can be applied to make your life better. I think it would help you translate the words in to healing actions.
Please tell me your thoughts on it when you first read it. I hope you can do that. I think much good can come from continued discussion.
An aside -
One of our twins came home with "Best of show" for a ceramic dragon at a multi school art show last year. This year she got first place for line art drawings, and 1st in ceramics. I really encourage her to use her talents, and I encourage you to use yours also. Thanks for sharing the link.
I want to comment more on some other things you said.... will get back to you later.
SS
Whoa MM - I need time to process this! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Thank you so much for taking the time to respond. I'll reply after it sinks in. Thank you though! I really appreciate it!
Glad you are still with us, Callie. How are things going?
Thanks for asking believer. I'm kind of in overdrive mode right now. Getting ready for Christmas Break, (kids) school parties (I'm a room mother), last minute shopping and getting ready for Disney World - my kids are going to be SOOO excited when they find out. OF course I have NOTHING wrapped! Been so busy I haven't even been able to think about things, which is good!
H of course has done nothing, but he still gets his 9-12 hours of sleep a night! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> He promises he'll kick it into overdrive tomorrow and through the weekend to help get ready for everything. We'll see. Thanks for asking - will post an update later when I have more time and can think! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Well, if he even lifts a finger, be sure to give him lots of admiration.
LOL - LOL - It's so V E R Y hard to do this, but I'll try. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
I know it is, but just do it. My ex was a lazy man. I just did everything, and all it did was cause me to resent him. But the EN folks say that admiration may change them. You never know, it won't hurt to try.
I'm thinking..........
Really wondered if you would be fine after your trip, and not write for some time. It worries me that you go for a time, and then write, and go for a time, then write.......
I still believe if you stayed around, it would help you make the decisions you need to make.
I could ask what you deleted, but perhaps it would be best just to ask how you are.
How are you?
SS thinks for a while longer.......
Yes, lets just ask how you are for now.
I won't ask what he did......... or is doing.
SS
Just an update...
Drug use again. Last weekend H went on a gambling binge and was gone from Thursday until Monday. I knew he was @ cards and had locked him out of the house on Sat night when he came home etc. etc. etc. Last Monday I get a call from someone he plays cards with. Apparantly several of them are very concerned about him. They'd not seen or known him to use drugs, but apparantly he was almost passed out @ the poker table, making stupid plays, slurring, couldn't walk straight, almost hit a parked car etc. They verified that it was drugs (pills). I guess over the course of the last 2 weeks he's racked up $1400 in poker debt (I had no clue whatsoever) yet to be paid AND he'd borrowed $1000 from his mom about a month ago (I'm assuming for poker debt - I also had NO clue about that until she told me.)
I confronted H about that and he was livid, felt cornered, betrayed, demanded to know who called me. Said if they were real friends they would have talked to him directly. The guy that called DID try to talk to H, but he flat out lied and said he wasn't on anything. Anyway, I'd asked H about poker debt AND drugs prior to telling them that someone had called me. He flat out denied all of it, everything. When I pressed him on debt he started to get a sense that I knew something so he said he'd borrowed $200 (in reality he owes $1400). He also said he hadn't borrowed any money from anyone else when I pressed him about his mom he said he'd borrowed $50 from her when in reality it was $1000.
I could go on and on and on. I'm constantly mad @ him for something. He screws up left and right and I'm so sick of picking up the pieces from the bombs that he sets off in my life, our life.
Obviously I am very codependant. I an aware of that - I've been spending ALOT of time on an addiction board. I've gotten ALOT of insight from addicts, former addicts as well as their spouses. I have gotten so much insight, so much. I realized that I need to let go. Let go and Let God.
H is moving out. He is going to look for a place this week. This is so hard I can't breathe and I can't stop crying/sobbing. So hard to let someone go that you've carried for 21 years. It's so hard. He's not fighting me, but it's so hard. He's given up - he's moving out. I KNOW it's what I need to do, I've KNOWN it, but to actually do it is so hard. Utterly heartwrenching for me. I just feel so bad for him. I'm sending him back to the life that I thought carried him out of 21 years ago. Part of me still feels like I can save him - like I can help him, but he won't open up to me. In reality, he's never opened up to me EVER in 21 years. I've had glimpses of his reality, but that's it. In a way it's a gift he's giving me - makes it easier to leave. He really does love me in his own twisted way, he really is torn up and cannot speak. All of this happened and he's letting go and dealing with in his own way by shutting down. Says he deserves this - he's not on anything either. This is H. I just feel so bad for him, I worry so much about him. He doesn't have anyone. He's said I'm his only family and then just walks away and shuts down and says he'll leave. Nothing, no communication. He's just done, walking away, leaving.
In a way, I hate him for shutting down, but....after I think about it...in a way it's a gift. He's not trying to reel me in - he knows he needs to let me go so I can find myself again - so I can be a better mom to his kids.
I so thought I could get to him, reach him, save him. I gave him my very best for 21 years - I truely did love him - I SAW his heart, who he could be - I'm just so heartbroken. But somewhere in there is hope. Hope that I can find a life by myself. Find a way. I still feel like if I hammer hard enough I can get through to him - I still want to try to get through to him - but I know I need to let go. That's the fighter in me I suppose. This is just so hard. But I know that I need to let go...I need to let go.
Callie:
Addiction feels very much like Infidelity, I have first hand knowledge as well. My WH acts out with porn and EA's. Those are his addictions. It took me a long time to realize that the EA's were addictions and I've been on this board for 6 years. If you read my recent post, you will see that I'm still in the thick of it.
Speaking as a W of an addict, I do sincerely believe that he has to want to get help and then he has to stick to it. We are about to embark on the "stick to it" path and I'm scared to death. Having already been married to an addict (alcohol) that was also physically and verbally abusive to me, I don't want to do this for the next 20 years. I had 3 children and a 15 year marriage with the first one. I've now been married again for 6 years.
Spouses like us really need to work on ourselves and whatever the outcome is, it is. It may help the addict, but it will most defintely help us. I've been invited to take a look at the GODDESS thread and I started to last night, from what I can see you would probably benefit by it as well. Make the next few years or more your time to heal yourself. I just turned 40 and I've really had some heart to hearts with myself about how I want to spend the next 40 years. And it's healthy and happy. Much of that comes from inside of me without anyone elses help.
So sorry that you are hurting. Good luck and God Bless!
seek out justjulie's thread. she is going through this as well.
i would do a dark plan b with him. list what needs to be done in order for him to come home, etc. i am sure you know about plan b. but with addicts i think plan b is even more important. you need to protect yourself and your kids from the pain addiction causes.
sometimes that plan B shakes them up enough to get some real help.
mlhb
Thanks for the update.
Now I have a dilemma. Do I comment, or leave you alone?
SS
OK, for better or worse, I'll comment.
I so thought I could get to him, reach him, save him. I gave him my very best for 21 years - I truely did love him - I SAW his heart, who he could be - I'm just so heartbroken. But somewhere in there is hope. Hope that I can find a life by myself. Find a way. I still feel like if I hammer hard enough I can get through to him - I still want to try to get through to him - but I know I need to let go. That's the fighter in me I suppose. This is just so hard. But I know that I need to let go...I need to let go.
Plan A for 21 years.
I think you do need to let go.
Let's see.......
Most parents that have kids the age of your kids will have a copy of the movie "Cars."
There is a song in that movie......I don't know all the words, but the last few lines, and those that might best apply here are as follows .....
"We go through life
so sure of where we're headed
And we wind up lost
and its the best thing that could have happened
Cause sometimes when you lose your way, its really just as well
Because you find yourself,
Yeah thats when you find yourself."
Callie, do you believe good can come of this?
SS
SS - thank you so much. Of course I know the song, I have 7 year old twins who LOVE that movie!
I will find my way. Right now, the goodness that came out of this was my two kids.
Things just keep getting worse and worse. I found out the total debt is about double what I thought. I also found out the reason for the really LOW paychecks is because he's been playing cards when I thought he was @ work. Also found out that my IC who see's H told me today that he's NEVER seen H come in not on something. His colleague is an addiction specialist. On top of that H was diagnosed with Menieres disease, caused by excessive codone usage. He's deaf in one ear (maybe permanently) and will most likely effect the other ear if he continues to use. All the while he looks me dead square in the eye and says he's NOT using. I've learned sooo much from sober recovery. I've for ONCE seen things from the addicts perspective.
In reality, H does not now how to function without drugs because he's done them for so long and so hard. He by all accounts has been a functional addict. It's just his usage has escalated to where I can detect it as well as everyone else. Right now IC feels H is not stable to kick out. He's asking me to hold on just a bit longer until we meet with him (next Tuesday) to see what we can do. I cannot force rehab. But if I send him out on his own he's likely to have an accident and possibly kill himself or someone else. That in turn could mean that I lose everything. My BIL who is a lawyer is after me to file something NOW to protect myself and document everything. I just need some time to breathe and decipher.
I have told my sister, she is livid. I will probably tell my parents this week sometime. All the while I have to pull it together to go coach baseball with my two kids. If I can handle what I've been through, I can handle anything. Hey, that's probably another good thing that I've learned. Thanks so much for caring SS - I haven't been back here since I posted because I've been busy getting bombs thrown at me.
SS - thank you so much. Of course I know the song, I have 7 year old twins who LOVE that movie! I will find my way. Right now, the goodness that came out of this was my two kids. Two wonderful children are a gift indeed.
I am wondering about the future though. Do you believe good can come of what is happening now?
My personal hope is that this will make it possible for him to get the help he needs. Or that it will finally push him to claim the help he needs. It sounds like he has been trying to hide it for the whole 21 years.
Things just keep getting worse and worse. I found out the total debt is about double what I thought. I also found out the reason for the really LOW paychecks is because he's been playing cards when I thought he was @ work. Also found out that my IC who see's H told me today that he's NEVER seen H come in not on something. His colleague is an addiction specialist. On top of that H was diagnosed with Menieres disease, caused by excessive codone usage. He's deaf in one ear (maybe permanently) and will most likely effect the other ear if he continues to use. All the while he looks me dead square in the eye and says he's NOT using. I've learned sooo much from sober recovery. I've for ONCE seen things from the addicts perspective. You know this is not something you can fix.
I wish someone would post who has experience with this, and who could guide you through the steps you should take.
I wish there were a way to force rehab.
In reality, H does not now how to function without drugs because he's done them for so long and so hard. .......... But if I send him out on his own he's likely to have an accident and possibly kill himself or someone else. That in turn could mean that I lose everything. My BIL who is a lawyer is after me to file something NOW to protect myself and document everything. I just need some time to breathe and decipher. Think on it, pray about it, and follow through. Many of us have been worried about it for a long time. Protection is important when the other person is not trustworthy. You know he has had at least one A, in addition to all these other things.
In my mind, I see you getting a restraining order. I see him break it, and go to prison. I see him getting treatment before he is free.
Wouldn't it be nice if this could be worked out in such a neat and tidy way?
Your BIL probably has good advice here. If he did straighter out, you can always take him back.
IN this case you may be able to help him the most by letting him cope with the consequences of his actions. Tough love.
I am not telling you that I know what is needed, or that I know best. These are just my thoughts as they come to me.
I have told my sister, she is livid. I will probably tell my parents this week sometime. All the while I have to pull it together to go coach baseball with my two kids. If I can handle what I've been through, I can handle anything. Hey, that's probably another good thing that I've learned. You know, I believe between you and God, you can handle anything.
Not to make light of YOU, but we have been praying for you, that you might have strength, and comfort, and know what to do. I hope you feel the help.
Thanks so much for caring SS - I haven't been back here since I posted because I've been busy getting bombs thrown at me. You sound pretty upbeat for what's going on. I raised my eyebrows when I read through this the first time. You seem resigned to the worst, but still thinking about damage control, and how to do this in a way that will cause the least harm all the way around.
Please do tell your parents. It's about time you got the emotional support that is unique to parent and child relationships.
I am not reading anything about your feelings for him. Logical progression from where you were............. taking into account what else has transpired.
It would be a long, long, long road back to romantic love. Is that something you still have any desire for?
Prayers continue.
BTW, I read back through my comments. It sounds kind of ...... kind of emotionless.
Can we add some warmth here at the end, so you know we care?
Maybe insert a warm fuzzy feeling? A few hugs?
Imagine care, and concern, and people who want you to heal.
Does that help?
SS