One mistake you are making is thinking that some man is going to solve your problems. This is something that YOU need to step up and solve for YOURSELF.

And please don't babble about how your life would change with a man who is MARRIED. Right there he shows me that he is NOT an honorable man.

Believer - Rationally I KNOW that a man won't solve my problems or make ma happy. You say he's not an honorable man - I could agree with that somewhat - but can you elaborate?? I really am trying to keep H and OM seperate. I've also thought ALOT about being on my own, I could do it, but am afraid of succombing to H just because of the embarassment of what "I've done" and because he's "what I know". AND because he's my kid's dad.

If it was easy, you would have already made it work long before now. It's not easy.

All of us cope with our own problems - or as someone once said "We all have our own cross to bear."

I think that is true - but they are custom crosses, designed for each person who carries them. Never more than we can bear, as long as we get God's help with the burden.

I don't know if you continue to pray, but I would guess that you do. I hope you do, because I know you can find help, and relief there. Sometimes we want God to do things on our time table, and we don't understand why he won't. I know he helps in ways that are best for us. I also know that he doesn't make any mistakes, and that his timing is always perfect, but it's still difficult to live through each day and not wonder what's going to become of us. (and if I can read a little into this, you also wonder if you WILL ever get to live a normal life, and be happy.)

When I saw you post again, I wondered if I should stay way. I am not sure if I have been much help to you as far as your ability to actually make changes, and see any different results.

I am disappointed that you are still in such a bad situation, but not in you - yourself. We are all in this world together, and it is good for us to help each other as much as we are able to. I am not so good that I know exactly what you should do. God does know though, so keep doing your personal best, and keep praying. I am sure it will be made plain to you in time.
(That would be God's time, try really hard not to get impatient.) <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Our twins are 14 now, and doing well - or mostly well. I think yours just had a B-day recently. I hope you all had a good time.

Believer, keep commenting, you are doing so well.

SS

Well, the way I look at it, you SHOULD NOT be depending on your husband. He is not making good choices.

The OM has a WIFE. That makes him not honorable in my book, or he wouldn't be interested in you. If he is miserable in his marriage, he needs to fix it, or DIVORCE.

The way I see it, YOU are the one that needs to do the heavy work.

Can you support yourself without your husband?

An honorable man will not confess feelings for, express love for, or make any plans to be with - another man's wife.

If he was approached, he would say something like "It is wrong to be discussing any thing like this, and I won't be any part of it." Then he would remove himself from the situation.

Of course, believer should still answer for her self too.

SS

YES, SS! My kids are "7" I cannot believe it. I continue to be amazed at them. They are SUCH good kids and SO well adapted. Thank you so much for asking. You know I keep thinking. They are 7 right now. I've got about 11 years worth of impact on them. Of forming who they'll be, what their morals and values will be. No doubt I'll impose what is instilled in me - but just so HUGE. KWIM? I think about myself alot - my situation alot. I HOPE that I can instill in my ds to never treat his w or any woman the way his father has treated me. I HOPE that I can instill in my dd to never tolerate what I have. I hope BOTH can be more honorable than what I've tolerated or what my H has dished out.

Sometimes I think I try so hard to keep something intact - when in fact it should have been dismantled long ago. Is DIVORCE ever a good option??? Never did I think I would let myself self destruct to the point that I have. All for the sake of doing right, doing what's right for my kids. But in reality maybe it's the worst thing that I could have done. KWIM??

Believer, can you elaborate NOT depending on my H? I mean I guess I've ALWAYS had an alternative itinerary (sp??) for myself and my kids. I've always got xyz bills paid off in case we D. In a sense I've got all my ducks in a row. Right now I can very meagerly rely on myself.

Really nice site, Callie. I suggest you start getting yourself ready. Then go to a support group. It will change your life. But you need to approach this as a strong, calm woman.

"SS - the truth about OM...I still think about him all of the time. He's even there in my dreams. He was the complete opposite of my H in every aspect. I would do anything to be able to move on from him, but in truth 2.5 laters I've not - as hard as I've tried. I've tried to fill that void with H, but it doesn't come close. I don't talk to him but a few times a year. I see him in passing every now an then. Even w/o spoken words, I know how he feels and he knows how I feel. A life with him would be completely different than what I know now. But it would also bring problems, because he's not the father of my kids. I've made my H out to be ok in the public eye, when in reality he's not been ok nor never has been. With H it is someone who will think of himself first, complete selfishness, could care less about the garden hose that's laying in the yard under the snow freezing and about to burst. Could care about the trash that needs taken out, care less about the SUV that needs an oil change, the garage that needs tending to, the dog that needs to go the the vet. Call it fog, call it whatever you like, but he is 100% the polar opposite of OM. An H who could care less about that stuff.

Yes, ALOT of it is about OM - who met my expectations as opposed to an H who doesn't come close. After 2.5 years is it still a fog? Or is it reality that my H will never be enough."

IMHO you are still very foggy, still fantasizing about the OM, still not accepting of any possibility of permanent improvement in your BH, partly because you still have some contact with the OM and are still trying to justify to yourself a possible future with the OM.

Why are you still talking to the OM on occasion and exchanging glances that you interpret to mean something more is mutually desired? IMHO, regardless of your husband's problems, YOU cannot honestly claim to be giving your marriage a chance until you totally stop that inappropriate contact with the OM.

In fairness to you it doesn't sound as if your BH is all that great, and you may be right in your assessment that he may never change for the good...

But IMHO you are not in a position to give him and your marriage a fair/fighting chance as long as you keep thinking of the married OM as your back-up plan and/or as the one you wish you were married to. Even if the odds are stacked pretty high against your husband pulling off the changes he needs to make, you still owe it to him to stop all contact with the OM and stop comparing your husband to the OM.

If you and your husband do end up divorced, it should TRULY have nothing whatsoever to do with the OM (and I don't mean in the way that WS's typically deny the demise of the marriage has nothing to do with the OP). REALLY you should get the OM totally out of your life/heart/mind FIRST, THEN give your marriage and husband your absolute best shot for recovery, and then divorce if you must BUT never have anything to do with the married OM even after divorce.

I agree about attending the support meetings. IMHO you should also be getting individual counseling that will address both how to deal with your husband's problems AND how to get over your false hopes regarding another woman's husband.

Apparently your husband can't compete with that OM, you view the OM as superior in many ways... and he may well be better than your husband on many or even most ways... but that's not the point. Your husband is still your husband, and the OM is somebody else's husband. You absolutely cannot give your marriage a fighting chance as long as you continue to reserve some hope that you and the OM may end up together.

The odds against your husband and marriage are steep enough, your situation already bad enough, without you making unfair comparisons and having OM in your thoughts.

It may be that you will and even should divorce your husband. But it should in no way be because you still want the OM. If you divorce it's OK to hope to marry a better man someday - but NOT the OM.

If the OM truly were an honorable man he would have made it completely clear to you by now that he will not destroy his marriage and wife by further entertaining even the faintest hope or agenda of a future with you.

BTW, I'm willing to bet big that the OM also sometimes forgets to take out the trash, leaves the garden hose in the yard, etc. too. In fact I'd bet that if his wife could read your complaints about your husband and assumption that her husband never does those thigns, she would be ROFL! You don't really know what it would be like to be the OM's wife; all you know about him is the positive image of him that he wanted you to see. And even if he is better than your BH in those particular ways, I can guarantee you that he does have his own faults, maybe even some worse ones than your BH, that you don't even know about. So what if the OM takes out the trash without having to be asked to? That's between him and his wife. And you have no idea what flaws he has, the things he forgets to do, that his wife has to put up with. For all you know his wife might wish he was more like your husband in some ways. Nobody is perfect - ESPECIALLY married men who are willing to cheat on their wives!!! I guarantee you that OM has many a flaw besides the obvious one... you just don't know him as well as his wife does.

What you seem to be doing is LOOKING FOR faults in your husband. Sure he has some MAJOR problems - I'm not denying that - but listing all those things he fails to do, and making the comparison to the OM, says more about a negative trait in you than in your BH IMHO. It is never appropriate to put your spouse down while comparing them to an OP IMHO. And it is not fair either. EVEN if it's true, that the OP is better than your spouse in those ways, it's still wrong.

You cannot possibly give your spouse and marriage a fair chance while doing that. NO mere mortal could compete and win against even the faintest of opposition that way.

EVERY single woman who crosses your husband's path has something about her that is superior to you in some way... one may be a better cook, another may earn more money than you, while another spends more time at homemaking than you, this one has prettier legs, that one has nicer hair... But each one of them is also a mere mortal who is not only better than you in some way, but also less than you in some way too.

If you cannot think of (or remember) ANY ways that your husband is better than the OM, if you cannot see that the OM is less than your husband in SOME ways, then you are viewing the OM's attributes through a very thick fog and not coming anywhere near giving your husband and marriage a real chance for recovery.

IMHO a major change YOU need to make, regardless of whether or not your BH pulls off making the major changes he needs to make, is that you need to stop looking for flaws in your husband as a way of justifying your continued infatuation with the OM.

ADDED: AFTER you stop ALL CONTACT with the OM, then you will start withdrawal. You haven't been in withdrawal for 2.5 years so of course you are still foggy. When you last saw the OM, or last talked to him, your withdrawal started all over again at that moment. And even if your BH makes every single positive change he needs to make, unless you stop seeing and talking to the OM, you will not get over the OM and appreciate your BH. BTW, does the OM's wife, and your husband, know you still have occasional contact with her husband?

Callie,
I think you are good with colors -
This from one with little ability himself.

MM has some good questions for you. I also believe that contact with OM is not wise, nor do I believe it is good for you in any way. I think you need fresh air, but I am hoping you can find it in other ways.

I hurt so much when I think of all you have endured. I can imagine you wondering "Don't I deserve to have a better life, and not have to worry about all these things that sap my strength, and take away my peace of mind?"

I think you do. I really think you do.
There are right and wrong ways to get peace of mind. I think you have kept your self where you are because you understand that. BTW, going after peace of mind the wrong way won't really bring peace, just more turmoil.

I hope you see in MM's post....... the concern for you, and for your happiness. I would recommend you read it once a day for three days. (no I'm not kidding.)

I believe you will pick up new things each time, and the last time, you will be able to see how the advice can be applied to make your life better. I think it would help you translate the words in to healing actions.

Please tell me your thoughts on it when you first read it. I hope you can do that. I think much good can come from continued discussion.

An aside -
One of our twins came home with "Best of show" for a ceramic dragon at a multi school art show last year. This year she got first place for line art drawings, and 1st in ceramics. I really encourage her to use her talents, and I encourage you to use yours also. Thanks for sharing the link.

I want to comment more on some other things you said.... will get back to you later.

SS

Whoa MM - I need time to process this! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Thank you so much for taking the time to respond. I'll reply after it sinks in. Thank you though! I really appreciate it!

Glad you are still with us, Callie. How are things going?

Thanks for asking believer. I'm kind of in overdrive mode right now. Getting ready for Christmas Break, (kids) school parties (I'm a room mother), last minute shopping and getting ready for Disney World - my kids are going to be SOOO excited when they find out. OF course I have NOTHING wrapped! Been so busy I haven't even been able to think about things, which is good!

H of course has done nothing, but he still gets his 9-12 hours of sleep a night! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> He promises he'll kick it into overdrive tomorrow and through the weekend to help get ready for everything. We'll see. Thanks for asking - will post an update later when I have more time and can think! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Well, if he even lifts a finger, be sure to give him lots of admiration.

LOL - LOL - It's so V E R Y hard to do this, but I'll try. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I know it is, but just do it. My ex was a lazy man. I just did everything, and all it did was cause me to resent him. But the EN folks say that admiration may change them. You never know, it won't hurt to try.

Post deleted by Callie1

I'm thinking..........

Really wondered if you would be fine after your trip, and not write for some time. It worries me that you go for a time, and then write, and go for a time, then write.......

I still believe if you stayed around, it would help you make the decisions you need to make.

I could ask what you deleted, but perhaps it would be best just to ask how you are.

How are you?

SS thinks for a while longer.......

Yes, lets just ask how you are for now.
I won't ask what he did......... or is doing.

SS

Just an update...

Drug use again. Last weekend H went on a gambling binge and was gone from Thursday until Monday. I knew he was @ cards and had locked him out of the house on Sat night when he came home etc. etc. etc. Last Monday I get a call from someone he plays cards with. Apparantly several of them are very concerned about him. They'd not seen or known him to use drugs, but apparantly he was almost passed out @ the poker table, making stupid plays, slurring, couldn't walk straight, almost hit a parked car etc. They verified that it was drugs (pills). I guess over the course of the last 2 weeks he's racked up $1400 in poker debt (I had no clue whatsoever) yet to be paid AND he'd borrowed $1000 from his mom about a month ago (I'm assuming for poker debt - I also had NO clue about that until she told me.)

I confronted H about that and he was livid, felt cornered, betrayed, demanded to know who called me. Said if they were real friends they would have talked to him directly. The guy that called DID try to talk to H, but he flat out lied and said he wasn't on anything. Anyway, I'd asked H about poker debt AND drugs prior to telling them that someone had called me. He flat out denied all of it, everything. When I pressed him on debt he started to get a sense that I knew something so he said he'd borrowed $200 (in reality he owes $1400). He also said he hadn't borrowed any money from anyone else when I pressed him about his mom he said he'd borrowed $50 from her when in reality it was $1000.

I could go on and on and on. I'm constantly mad @ him for something. He screws up left and right and I'm so sick of picking up the pieces from the bombs that he sets off in my life, our life.

Obviously I am very codependant. I an aware of that - I've been spending ALOT of time on an addiction board. I've gotten ALOT of insight from addicts, former addicts as well as their spouses. I have gotten so much insight, so much. I realized that I need to let go. Let go and Let God.

H is moving out. He is going to look for a place this week. This is so hard I can't breathe and I can't stop crying/sobbing. So hard to let someone go that you've carried for 21 years. It's so hard. He's not fighting me, but it's so hard. He's given up - he's moving out. I KNOW it's what I need to do, I've KNOWN it, but to actually do it is so hard. Utterly heartwrenching for me. I just feel so bad for him. I'm sending him back to the life that I thought carried him out of 21 years ago. Part of me still feels like I can save him - like I can help him, but he won't open up to me. In reality, he's never opened up to me EVER in 21 years. I've had glimpses of his reality, but that's it. In a way it's a gift he's giving me - makes it easier to leave. He really does love me in his own twisted way, he really is torn up and cannot speak. All of this happened and he's letting go and dealing with in his own way by shutting down. Says he deserves this - he's not on anything either. This is H. I just feel so bad for him, I worry so much about him. He doesn't have anyone. He's said I'm his only family and then just walks away and shuts down and says he'll leave. Nothing, no communication. He's just done, walking away, leaving.

In a way, I hate him for shutting down, but....after I think about it...in a way it's a gift. He's not trying to reel me in - he knows he needs to let me go so I can find myself again - so I can be a better mom to his kids.

I so thought I could get to him, reach him, save him. I gave him my very best for 21 years - I truely did love him - I SAW his heart, who he could be - I'm just so heartbroken. But somewhere in there is hope. Hope that I can find a life by myself. Find a way. I still feel like if I hammer hard enough I can get through to him - I still want to try to get through to him - but I know I need to let go. That's the fighter in me I suppose. This is just so hard. But I know that I need to let go...I need to let go.

Callie:

Addiction feels very much like Infidelity, I have first hand knowledge as well. My WH acts out with porn and EA's. Those are his addictions. It took me a long time to realize that the EA's were addictions and I've been on this board for 6 years. If you read my recent post, you will see that I'm still in the thick of it.

Speaking as a W of an addict, I do sincerely believe that he has to want to get help and then he has to stick to it. We are about to embark on the "stick to it" path and I'm scared to death. Having already been married to an addict (alcohol) that was also physically and verbally abusive to me, I don't want to do this for the next 20 years. I had 3 children and a 15 year marriage with the first one. I've now been married again for 6 years.

Spouses like us really need to work on ourselves and whatever the outcome is, it is. It may help the addict, but it will most defintely help us. I've been invited to take a look at the GODDESS thread and I started to last night, from what I can see you would probably benefit by it as well. Make the next few years or more your time to heal yourself. I just turned 40 and I've really had some heart to hearts with myself about how I want to spend the next 40 years. And it's healthy and happy. Much of that comes from inside of me without anyone elses help.

So sorry that you are hurting. Good luck and God Bless!