Your honesty here is a great thing Maggie...So kudos to you for that! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Do you have those numbers memorized, written down or programmed into your phone? Obviously if it's either of the latter two you know what to do...If is memorization, then you must use a combination of willpower and accountability...Go to your husband and ask him to help you be accountable and obviously we here will do what we can to help you...Do NOT erase any history on your phone and ask that your husband check it nightly...Wear a rubber band on your wrist and anytime you are tempted to call OM's VM, pull it back and snap yourself HARD-then post here...You are right that calling is disrespectful to your husband and that this keeps the anger right there with ya...YUCK!! You don't need that...You don't want that...What you want is for OM to become irrelevant and for you to become indifferent where he is concerned...That's the goal...Let's stick with the plan, k?

Mrs. W

unfortunately, they're memorized.

I haven't checked either email or VM in over 24 hours. That's a first! I can do this! Doing this is GOOD for me!

Thank you so much you guys!

I am super proud that you told this here Maggie...Transparency is a beautiful thing!!! Just the simple act of telling this here will help you LOADS! ((((Maggie))))

Also have you mentioned this to your husband? Meaning have you told him that you realize how disrespectful this has been to him and that you are doing everything in your power to change that? That you are now choosing to respect him? I think talking to him about this would make a lovebank deposit...

Mrs. W

Also this may have no meaning whatsoever, but it MIGHT...Have you talked to your IC about the fact that your first husband had homosexual tendencies and so did OM...I wonder what an IC might think about that...Might be worth exploring...dunno...

Mrs. W

Mrs. Wondering

If you only knew all the men I've dated who turned out gay! My prom date was gay!

I'll ask my IC about this, but I imagine it probably has something to do with the field I'm in. Let's put it this way: it's more gay than hairstyling. So the men I have met are probably more likely to have experimented, etc. Although XH and OM were not in that field. Hmmmm. Maybe I just have weird luck?

Or maybe it's just because I look just like Jake Gyllenhall. :P

I kid!!! I'm super feminine-looking!

Also, I just wanted to make sure this is clear: my H is 100% straight manly man.

Maggie you just crack me right up! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Mrs. W

P.S. PLEASE come decorate our house! (guessing) <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Maggie, how you feeling today? I know that we both had a really rough Monday. You sure do sound in better spirits.

tmts,

I am feeling so much better. Mostly because I've been posting here. I like having a plan, I like lists, I like knowing what my goal is and having steps to get there. I'm sure there will be some more bumps, but today is a good one.

How are you doing? I'm going to go check in on you at your thread...

Mrs. W -

*ding*

But I don't do houses...I have a "Tim Gunn" type of job. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Maggie,

Would you add to your list that you want and need to respect your H??? I read what you said about him going to college and dropping out. I suspect you feel he has failed, and I am sure he does. But, his talents may not lie in that direction, or he may have issues with learning via dyslexia or such. I don't know.

But, I wonder if you understand his true strengths. I once was in a deep conversation with my minister about life and things, when the subject of work came up. He asked me about my hours and I told him. He looked at me and said "you know you have been blessed. You have been blessed with a work ethic and the ability to work long hours. Not everyone is so blessed." That one took me back. Most of the people I know work long hours and still do when my age (in my 60's). But, it also put a new spin on what a gift can really be and how we need to step back and look at things differently.

What are your H's gifts? Have you recognized them? I know you complain about the long hours he works. Have you ever considered them a gift? If you are to finally show your H some respect, you need to fully understand his gifts. He needs to hear that you are aware of his gifts and that you value them.

The man needs affection as you have stated, but he needs more than that. He needs a partner who respects him, and will protect him. You will find he has lots to say if he EVER feels safe.

Further I would bet given his education vs. yours that he KNOWS that in any discussion you will win. I would guess he feels that if you go to a counselor, it will end up being "his fault" and that you will be skilled enough to make it seem that way and then it will be two against one, when he knows he cannot handle one against one.

You may not feel this way, but he has been put on the defensive, and I would bet good money he views this as a win or lose situation with you as the adversary at a very basic level. You need to become his partner, and then you might well become his lover.

Please think about it.

God Bless,

JL

Ok, JL. Ouch. I hear you loud and clear.

Just because we have a difference in education, my H is no dummy. He engages in very interesting intellectual conversation and is well read.

I don't mind that he hasn't finished college, I did mind when I was providing it to him after he said it was what he wanted and then he just chose to not show up for classes (without going into details, this was professionally embarrassing). I've pretty much let go of that now. I'm trying to get a different position in a place where he can pursue his dreams. I have always been very supportive of his dreams, but sometimes I get frustrated because he is a wishful thinker. He works too many hours at jobs he is underqualified for, and then won't take any steps towards achieving these big goals and dreams he has. But I keep supporting him anyway, and happily.

I don't think we are on such unequal footing as I think you have the impression I do. I do not go through my marriage trying to "win," I don't have a competitive nature in that way.

Maybe I'm being foggy. But I did hear you the first time you posted - I have disrespected and emasculated my husband. I don't want it to be that way. I know how to fix it with words, but the words are never enough, I have no idea how to fix it with behaviors. Any ideas? Action steps?

Maggie,

My point was/is: it isn't what you think or what is "reality", it is what he thinks and how he views himself. That is the hard part of recovery, learning that the spouses views as their reality.

This is why I am encouraging you to examine this carefully and talk with him as much as you can with the idea of learning his reality. I don't know what his reality is, but I do know it is different from yours.

It is all about filters and that determines how one receives and processes information. You may have been the most encouraging W in the world, but it doesn't matter if he does not receive and process what you have done as you have.

This is one of the most profound messages of this site. Harley felt that often very well meaning spouses don't meet their spouses needs because a) they don't know what they are, b) assume they are the same as theirs c) if they do recognize them try to meet them as they themselves would like to have them met.

It is why he has felt that many marriages could be salvaged because this inability to see or meet the others needs leads to marriage problems that are fixable.

Please read a bit about his thinking on meeting EN's and where he sees downfall. I think it will help you with your chosen path.

God Bless,

JL

PS: You will also learn that how he views you is not your reality either. That is what I am really cautioning you about. He may think you expect things from him that he cannot deliver...like going to school which he KNOWS you value and he may not be able to handle for a number of reasons. You will find as you learn more about him, you will learn more about how he sees you, and finally he will learn more about you. This is very nonlinear stuff.

Hi Maggie,

Not sure if this is out of line but from the last few posts I read, it sounds like the book: His Needs/Her Needs could be helpful.

That book helped me see that how I communicate with my H and how he communicated with me was very different for many reasons and it was my personal challenge to understand the communicate styles of men vs women and then of our individual personalities.

I thought I was a decent communicator. For the most part I was but during our M, my H decided to view my attempts at communication as an attack on his manhood or character. I didn't realize this, in fact I thought I was actually helping him by trying hard to think ahead. Well while thinking ahead was helpful, not letting him know my technique was detrimental to our M & R.

I also learned doing less sometimes was better than doing too much. Of course he would never tell me to stop doing the majority of the R work but in reality, he needed me to not do as much.

Hope this makes some sense. The book explains it much better and JL is giving you great insight.

take care,
L.

If you're asking how you can meet a need for "admiration" through more than words....then let me suggest a few:

*depending on your husband's love language....acts of service are very good at showing your admiration.

*use your imagination in the bedroom to show admiration. I have yet to meet a man who didn't appreciate feeling irresistible and studly.

*brag about him to your friends...within earshot. Even though it's still "words", the fact that you telling someone else besides him is sometimes more powerful. It shows you're proud of him.

*notice the things he does for you or around you. Write him little thank-you notes.

*I once had a letter delivered by courier to a remote hunting camp with a list of everything I loved about him....quirks, body parts, sexual techniques....enough to make him blush.

There's a few anyway....but you sound like a very bright girl, so use your imagination.

And about "accountability".....replace bad habits with good ones. When you think about checking his VM, get up and take a walk or do some other kind of physical activity that will increase endorphins and get your heart pumping in a way that is healthy for you. Drink lots of water to flush out those affair chemicals. Do small acts of service for the people around you.....the feeling you get will encourage more compassionate thinking, raise your consciousness and temper selfishness.

You're doing really well.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

maggie, I just want to tell you that you are an inspiration to me. Maybe I have just latched on to you because you are a FWW who posts, has a plan, and a goal. Everything that I wish, hope and pray that Mrs Rock will someday have.
Hopefully withher new found help, she and I can get to that point.
I am really enjoying your posts and your insights.
Thanks.
Rock

Rock, I really see so much of who I was just a very short time ago in what you've described of Mrs. Rock. The depression, the drinking, the fog, etc.

If I can pull out of it, I know she can, too.

I hope you're settling in great to your new job. The way you feel about your work reminds me of my husband, and I know how hard it is to give something your all when you're just not feelin' it. I'm learning to admire that quality, by empathizing with my husband more.

I know this is a tough time of year for you both, but I wish you a truly blessed holiday.

(((rock and mrs. rock)))

Thanks maggie. I've got to go to my pitiful job right now. I will talk to ya later. Have a great day!

testing out my shiny new signature!

Hi Maggie,
How are things? Any foggy moments we need to worry about?
Have you managed to stay away form the VM? Do we need to get the lumber?