Well, YOU ASKED FOR IT!!

Hehehe...just kidding! I have seen tremendous growth in you two over the past few days. I think with each other's support (and MB), you can find the strength you need to shine like the stars you are!

Believe me, your H's will notice, ladies...

so he emailed this "schedule" to see the kids over the next week... I hadn't asked in some time, I've backed off, really I have. Anyway... pretty much plans to see the kids everyday and come over for dinner more often. can't help but be pesimistic and think something (else) is up... oh well, I'll wait it out and see if he follows through and not "expect" anything... but honestly I'm tense for a shoe to drop ;-(

What is the statuswith the warthog? Is it posible that arenot very pretty over there?

no clue what goes on over there! Schedule has changed a bit due to snow days. What sucks is the kids don't want to do much with him... they're teens of course not, I'm just thinking he's probably happy over there because her two little wartpiglets are probably really into him, playing games etc... things our kids have out grown, it just really makes me jealous.

any bets he's set up this nice little schedule and spends more time around here waiting for tax return to be deposited and then he'll be gone again ;-( bummer of a day!!

If that's a posibility, is there a way to keep him away from it? So how long before you go ot Plan B? You sound like you could be ready...

I honestly couldn't go to plan B... I know, I know... MB... but really I would rather have what we have right now, the email, texting, late night computer chats than nothing at all. That would drive me insane. I have thought about a modified plan B, but I'm not ready for that, yet.

I'm always aware that the more time he spends over here, or somewhere with the kids is more time that he is "away" from her and her piglets (nothing against her kids they did nothing wrong).

He's "scheduled" to come over for dinner on Sunday. I'm going to treat his stomache well ;-)

oh geesh, you meant the tax return... LOL I thought you meant the warthog and her kids LOL!! The majority of the tax return is already scheduled to pay off some bills and he knows and has agreed to that... but me being pesimistic wonders why it is he's been in so much contact for about a week now... still wondering, time will tell.

have a good day!

AAAaaaaahhhhh, NO PESSIMISM ALLOWED!!! You are an optimist! He loves you and that is why he wants to spend time with you! You are doing such a great Plan A!

(ps-there is NO SUCH THING as a "modified" Plan B-you either go PB or you don't, and you are too far from it to be worried about it anyways! A modified PB doesn't work)

And Laundry Boy (hehehe-I like Grasshopper better), no, there is no way to keep it from him. The government and the banks require that both signatures are on it, even if it is deposited. The bank requires it be put into a joint account, or if it is cashed, they must BOTH be present.

You are doing a SUPER PLAN A!

I absolutely agree with LaLa..there's no such thing as a MODIFIED PLAN B!!

A word of warning to you, though. One of my GREATEST ERRORS was doing PLAN A too long. My H actually fell more deeply "IN LOVE" with the OW while he was CAKE-EATING because he was feeling NO PAIN. He was basking in the attention of TWO WOMEN and he thought he had been there waiting for him on the side. SOOOO at some point, after your effective PLAN A, you may need to do PLAN B.

Because, in order to be motivated to end the affair, THE WS HAS TO SUFFER!! Getting lulled into a cake-eating situation, he continues to feel OK, feel good, get his drug high and still have YOU..YUCK...

Part of PLAN A is talking to him about ending his affair. If he is making no strides to do that, then there's a PROBLEM...

And BTW, My dear GODDESS SERENITY, you deserve so much more than those crumbs. Your H belongs home with you and his children, not chatting with you like you are a nobody. Chest up, head high, you are HIS WIFE..not his chat partner. PLAN B would be doing what is necessary to bring him home where he belongs...and now during your PLAN A, you are to TELL HIM the point of your actions...you are to TELL HIM that you do not like just chatting with him....are you to be TELLING HIM and SHOWING HIM, of course, that you WANT HIM WITH YOU!!! He's giving you CRUMBS. You deserve a FEAST!! You are a DIAMOND. He is treating you like GLASS!!

I've been avoiding all talk about relationship and marriage, and I thought plan A was not to talk about the affair either... because that always seems to be a LB or DJ.

I keep asking myself "why do I love him?" We've had a pretty great marriage, even though I look back and see that he's been such a grouch and so depressed for so long. Why would I still love him after ALL he's put us through! And the kids OMGoodness why does he have to put them through this!

Anyway, I'm beginning to wonder if I haven't been too nice to him. Part of it is I appreciate the fact that his paycheck is still coming to us. He's racking up at least one CC to support this sleazy fling.

I know in my heart and in my head I still want him back, but I'm getting tired of waiting. This is stupid and it's gross and I hate that there are soooo many of us out here going through it! ICK!!!

So my "Love Must Be Tough" came today, I'll read that this weekend.

Oh yeah, the draft email that lists the "things" he wants to take has not been sent to me yet. He did come by during work and picked up a few dvds, made a comment about being lucky to watch tv while they work... yeah, he's just taking what he wants little by little. Like I can't see that! grrr

Soon.... (((((Soon)))))))
You think I would let you guys go that easily? I gt lucky that my my DW saw thw ind of jerk she was truly dealing with.

I sgree with the ladies, your Plan a is solid.You just need to give it some time. what really hit me in the last week Soon is that the vets were absolutely right about the fact that nothing can happen as far as recovery goes until the A is over. so unti lthe time hat it is, you must concentrat on those ENs and just ignoring your instincts to LB. He needs to feel like you will have a great life without him. that will make a difference. Also my Dw told me last night that one of the bigest factors in dicidig to work things out was the fact that after all she had put me through, I never gave up hope and kept working the plan.

So vottow line is keep working your plan and don't give up hope.

SS,

Long talks about the relationship or trying to educate him about how he is doing something wrong will get you nothing. But even though he won't enjoy it, you still need to tell him that you will not be in a marriage that involves a third person. You don't have to discuss the affair with him, just tell him that you won't tolerate it because it is disrespectful to you and hurts you as well.

Then change the subject or walk away. Reverse babble...Learn it and use it.

"It sure would be nice to have you home all the time. Why don't you lose the warthog and we'll get some help with solving our problems together."

As he starts to blah-blah-blah you say, "Hey, I'm fixing that casserole you like so much tomorrow night, Why don't you come over for dinner."

You say your piece and ignore whatever he tries to say, because it is about 99 and 44 one hundreths percent pure fog-babble. You really have to begin to visualize a Charlie Brown cartoon here. When ever the parents talk, all you ever hear is wah-wah-wah...wah-wah..wah-wah-wah. So as he starts to give you his line of bovine excrement, you visualize Linus with his blankie as he hears his parents saying...wah-wah-wah wah wah wah...wah-wah-wah...

TMTS (AKA:Call me anything, but don't call me late for for SF) give her the three step plan.

1)Meet his ENs
2)Avoid Love Busters
3)Have No Expectations

What causes you to begin to lose hope and doubt yourself and your own self worth is when you do something and expect him to react to it in the way you want him to. When he doesn't it makes you doubt that what you did was wrong. But that isn't true. You do what you need to do no matter what he does. That is why it is called a plan...You do stuff on purpose. You act rather than react. You control what you have control over and that is you. You take that control back from him and refuse to be defined by his bad decisions.

All together now...

Meet his ENs.
Avoid Love Busters
Have ______ (Fill in the blank)

To save your marriage somebody has to be strong. That somebody is you!

Mark

Ditto, Mark...

I was coming here this morning to tell you the same thing.

Remember: SHORT AND SWEET.."I want you home with me"...

My H told me the SAME THING as TMTS' W:


NEVER GIVE UP HOPE, SERENITY..BELIEVE in the PLANS!!

((((Serenity)))))

I am so glad you got "Love must Be Tough", because honey, when I read your posts, that is what you need to do (I am just got mine WED...almost done...). You are better than you WS deserves and you are better than what he is giving you. Which ain't swquat. The paycheck?? Still gonna come of you all D. Whether he likes it or not. His children are not charity. The fact that he choose to leave, was just that HIS CHOICE.... Honey, not trying to be too hard on you here, but I am worried about you.

TMTS.... ummmhh..nice typo's. Were you a little drunk when you wrote this??? I think you were...a little drunk on a wine called "Recovery at the Love Shack"....LMAO...

Mark, you are wise...yes we already knew that, but I think you like to prove that over and over again...lol. I have to say I didn't know you were a comedian though. The Charlie Brown analogy??? That cracks me up. I myself am going to have a hard time looking my WS in the face next time he starts up with his fogspeak...wah wah--wah wahhh...seriously, too funny. I like the simple breakdown of the rules as well. We bs only need to do 3 things. You are also right about the expectations....this is where I think women have the most trouble though...

and Mimi....you are OUR lighthouses....you are a shining example of what to do....(and this is where she will blast me on not finding out about A.....ughghhg....love must be tough right...)

ok SS, you got great stuff from the best of the best on here...we know what to do...lets get to it....

Not2fun

Not2,

Women aren't the only ones with trouble having expectations...Tell her TMTS... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I went back and read TMTS's threads from the beginning. Knowing what I know now about how things are going, it frankly made me want to cry...with joy, that is.


SS,
The problem you have is to get your message through to him without getting sucked into the garbage he is trying to sell you. His stuff is irrational fog-speak alien-babble blah-blah-blah. You need to get your truth delivered through the fog and then just disengage before he can respond. His position gets stronger in his mind when he can make excuses for it.

Don't give him any chance to generate those justifications and just say "You're wrong; you're an idiot and you're not acting rationally" and then let it steep for a while. It's like making a pot of tea. I can throw a tea bag into a pot, add hot water, dunk the bag up and down a couple times and it looks like tea, but it is really pretty weak and not as good as it could be. So instead of dumping the water into the pot and then stirring it up and trying to move on toward drinking it, I need to add the water and just let it sit for a few minutes so the flavor can be extracted from the tea leaves. Then it will have it's full flavor.

When you try to tell him you want him to end the affair, you need to have that concept in mind. You have to tell him what he needs to hear and then not try to stir it beyond that point. Jerking on his string to bounce him up and down a few times will not make him get it faster, instead it will only frustrate you. And the longer you engage in actively trying to change him, the more entrenched he becomes because he is fighting against you actively.

So you need to hit and run. Get in; get out and git 'er done...then let it sink all the way to the bottom before you even check to see if he heard you.


Mark

LOVE THIS..that Mark says..that's it EXACTLY...

short and sweet, hit and run... hmmmm... those statements where I say "the affair needs to end" or "time to come home so we can recover our marriage" those are LBs to him. He gets that icky look in his eyes that sends spears through my heart. oh well... tomorrow he's coming over early afternoon for dinner (supposidly) other things on his "schedule" did happen as he said they would... I imagine he will show up though, he wants to know what's left of the tax return so he can have some. I honestly feel used up! In the last few days I think I've come to a point where I know I deserve better, I need to respect MYSELF, or he surely won't. He tm 5!!!! times during a movie tonight. wanting to know who I went with, did I go alone, what did I see, etc... the nerve!! I responded 2 or 3 times and then just waited until it was over. geesh!! I don't ask him what he's doing, one because he stopped telling me long time ago, and two I don't want to know the icky details!

So tomorrows plan, lookin like a goddess ;-) house nice and spiffy... and a good dinner with blackeyed peas ;-) ha!

plan Ain'

SS,

What I'm saying is don't engage him with it and don't try to convince him of it. Just state your single line point of the entire argument and then get out of the discussion all together.

You know him better than I would if he were my brother...You have to decide how to state this, but you simply want to deliver the message that you want a marriage to him without the OW involved. The opening for this might be something he would say, like "Why can't you just let me go?" You reply with "I made a vow I take seriously and will do everything necessary to have what I signed up for on that day, a marriage to you with no other woman as a part of it and an intact family." Then get out of Dodge. Leave the room, leave the building, leave the conversation right there hanging like an albatross around his neck. If you can change the subject, fine, but don't let him make a case of any kind for two reasons.

1)If he gets to think about it and make himself out to be a martyr in his own mind, then he becomes more entrenched in the affair.
2)The fog-babble bullchit he is likely to lay on you will catch you off guard no matter how you think you have prepared for it. It will leave you feeling week, empty and less resolved to save your marriage.

Will it make a difference to him?

Not one you will see, but trust me on this, he will have to think about your words and not be able to dismiss them. He will attempt to counter your argument, but since you won't be there it will never even leave an echo. And the more he tries to make his case to himself, the more likely that the fog will fade momentarily and he will have to deal with truth. You will leave him arguing with himself instead of you, and in that argument, truth eventually wins every single time. Reality cannot be denied. It isn't relative and won't cease to be reality just because we want it to. It might take a year, or two, or maybe even longer, but he will have to face it the whole time.

Time for Steve's Rocks in the River analogy again, I think. I know everybody knows this one, but it bears repeating until we all get it in our gut...

You stand on the bank of a swollen river, too wide, deep and swift to cross. You pick up a rock and throw it into the water and watch it vanish beneath the waves. You throw another and another and another...and every one disappears without a trace.

But the rocks aren't disappearing into nothingness. They are in fact piling up on the bottom of the river bed. You can't see them, they have no visible effect on the water rushing over them and the river does not seem to be effected in any way. But because you know that the rocks can't really be going into outerspace of their own accord, you keep throwing the rocks. You throw 499 rocks and see nothing at all for all your efforts. Then you throw the 500th rock and the very tip becomes hardly visible in the foam and swirling flood. And that tiny peak of your efforts paying off that tiny bit give you just a glimmer of hope and you gather the strength to throw one more and one more. And eventually, you have the beginning of a bridge to reach the other side.

But if you stop after the 10th or 50th or 498th or even 499th rock, you will never see the result of your efforts so far and to you, the flood remains impassible.


Nothing you say or do will make him go back to before this happened. Nothing you say or do will have a visible effect on his attitude. But if you keep throwing the rocks and do nothing to take them away, you will eventually see a bit of hope and then you can make a push to go forward.

But you can't argue with him and that means you can't debate him either. You can't educate him or make him stop this silliness and do what you know he is capable of.

So you have to state your hurt., your pain, your truth and then disengage so that he cannot refute what you have said. Don't wait for validation. Don't expect tears and don't think things will be noticeably different.

Just do the plan...

Meet his ENs...
Avoid love busters...

Have no expectation of him reacting in a certain way.

And then get out of the conversation before he has time to react to what you said and just believe when I tell you he will still be thinking about it much later...

And just so you know, you won't seduce him into returning to you. You might seduce him, but it will not cause him to stop cake-eating. What man wouldn't love to have two women trying to outdo each other in bed?

Not saying you shouldn't be drop-dead/make him slobber all over his tie/"can I borrow your shower to cool off?" gorgeous and HOT HOT HOT. I'm just saying that you won't win the war with that strategy alone.

Just remember that he has the attention span of a grapefruit until he has had time to plan what to say. So you say your piece and let it simmer while moving him into another zone all together or simply walking away.

And above all, no begging or demanding or complaining. Just say one complex sentence he has to think about and step away from the alien...

Mark

IMHO you should ignore your WS text messages and calls when you go out.

Be pleasant to him WHEN you are home, after you have been out.

Make him wonder, however, continue in your plan A.

I believe a 180 might help a bit for your situation. There is a list of 180's someplace.

Can someone find it and bump it up for SS?

Love in Christ,
Miss M

Soon,

The good old EXPECTATIONS ladies... Yes I'm refering to you to not...

You guy need to stop trying to force the issue. Anything related to them comming back, R or S must not be initiated by you, but when the bring it up you have to be ready to strike. and like Mark says it has to be short and swift. Look back at the time my FWW brought buying a laptop and tried to pull me into giving her advice. She was trying to go through one of my bondaries (I don't want to hear anything related to your move). All I said was "That's nice, I go to go check on the chicken in the oven" That's the point mark is trying to make to you.

NO EXPECTATIONS!!! NO EXPECTATIONS!!!

Do like they do, act like everything is normal, but don't bring up the R or the A.