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Serenity....

Honey....SNAP OUT OF IT.....No crying, no whining, no self-pity parties.....HEAD UP, CHEST OUT...confidence level high.....

Girl, we've have got to get you on the ball...heck, its quite a high....lol

You have got to be ready for Plan B....too long and you will lose him......I'm telling you,,,,Me, who hates confrontations is so ready for Plan B ....well, kind of....heck after tomorrow, if he comes clean I might be ready for Plan FU....

oh wait, we're talking about YOU.....What are you doing to better YOURSELF for YOU??????

Come on....I tell ya....Mimi's gonna be after you next.....

not2fun

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As much as you must know I HATE to tell you this, I think if you DO NOT do PLAN B and stay in PLAN A too long, your WH will eventually lose his love for you OR you will lose your love for him.

The BIGGEST MISTAKE that I made was to stay in PLAN A too long. If you know my story at all, PLAN B then only lasted ALMOST 3 months...legally separated in MAY, reconciled in SEPTEMBER...

In order to END the AFFAIR, he has to begin to SUFFER. If the AFFAIR becomes comfortable, you are ENABLING it and he MAINTAINS his ADDICTION to her. It's like a woman telling her husband that it's OK for him to remain a coke addict.

He wants you as a BACKUP. That's why he's leaving his stuff...same with my H..but over time..he actually became CLOSER and CLOSER to her. He had me at home WAITING and he thought I would WAIT FOREVER. He called on the day that our house sold because HE thought that I was ACTUALLY moving on...

Well, I guess you can read the story...

He's not treating you as a person of VALUE. If you continue to SETTLE for that, that's how he'll see you and that's how he'll treat you.

Rise up and say that you are not going to take it anymore. I couldn't. I REFUSED TO SHARE MY HUSBAND. I WANTED ALL OF HIM OR NONE OF HIM...and I told him that. I meant it. I was UNWILLING TO BE HIS FRIEND. I AM HIS WIFE.


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PREACH IT SISTA MIMI!!!!!!!!!!

Listen, SS, ya gotta stop settling for scraps. You are better than that...worth SOOOO much more.

Plan B soon...how can we help you get yourself strong??


Peace,
LaLa

FWW(me) 37
BS 38
DS 9 & 5
PA 7/06-8/06
Dday 2/17/07

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SS,

Plan B is to stop worrying about what he does so that he doesn't push you away. It isn't to make him come home or make him do anything. It is to save what ever love you have left for him so that when the affair dies, which happens almost every single time, their will be enough in your LB$ so that you will still want him.

If you wait till you are all out of love for him, there is no need for Plan B because there is nothing left to save and so Plan D becomes the only remaining solution.

As long as you still love him and want him, you can accept him back when the affair is over. If you lose all love for him, you will not want him no matter how much he wants to come home.

You can't Plan A forever because he is eating cake and offering you less than crumbs. It is only a matter of time before you no longer want him in your life. Plan B can save your marriage under these conditions. Prepare for it so you are ready with it when the time comes and you realize you are loving him less each day.

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I'll let Dr. Harley speak to you. I always found this article to be helpful.

Quote
So, then, what is plan A and plan B?

Plan A is for the betrayed spouse to negotiate with the wayward spouse to totally separate from the lover without angry outbursts, disrespect, and demands. These three Love Busters not only ruin any effort to reach a negotiated settlement, but they also make the betrayed spouse much less attractive to the wayward spouse. Instead of encouraging total separation from the lover, the anger, disrespect and demands of the betrayed spouse make the lover appear to be the only one who truly cares about the wayward spouse. They literally throw the wayward spouse into the arms of the lover.

On the other hand, if the betrayed spouse approaches the wayward spouse with respect and thoughtfulness, the cruelty and self-indulgence of the affair is much easier for the wayward spouse to understand. And once the wayward spouse's mistake is acknowledged, it's much easier for him or her to take the first step toward recovery by agreeing to never see or talk to the lover again.

In these negotiations for total separation, the causes of the affair should be addressed. Since one of these causes is usually unfulfilled emotional needs, the betrayed spouse should express a willingness to meet those needs after the affair has ended. Another common cause is a wayward spouse's failure to take the betrayed spouse's feelings into account. The betrayed spouse's inconsiderate behavior sometimes leads the wayward spouse to believe that he or she has the right to return thoughtlessness with thoughtlessness by having an affair. Willingness of the betrayed spouse to follow the Policy of Joint Agreement goes a long way toward resolving the issue of thoughtlessness.

A third possible cause of an affair is a lifestyle where spouses spend much of their leisure time apart from each other, and form leisure-time friendships with those of the opposite sex. A plan to avoid being away from each other overnight and making each other favorite leisure-time companions goes a long way toward creating a passionate marriage that is essentially affair-proof.

In general, a betrayed spouse's effort to encourage the wayward spouse to end the affair should address all the root causes of the affair, and offer a solid plan for marital recovery. It should not be one-sided, however. The plan should make the wayward spouse and the betrayed spouse equally responsible for following the overall plan.

But plan A, an effort to end the affair with thoughtfulness and care, doesn't always work. In many cases a wayward spouse is so trapped by the addiction that he or she does not have the will-power to do the right thing. Once in a while the fog lifts and the cruelty and tragedy of the affair hits the wayward spouse right between the eyes. In a moment of grief and guilt, he or she promises to end it. But then the pain of withdrawal symptoms often brings back the fog with all its excuses and rationalization, and the affair is on again.

Sometimes a wayward spouse settles into a routine of having his or her cake and eating it too. In an effort to win the wayward spouse back, the betrayed spouse meets emotional needs that the lover cannot meet, while the lover meets emotional needs that the betrayed spouse has not learned to meet. While this competition is excruciatingly painful to the betrayed spouse, and the lover as well, the wayward spouse basks in the warmth of being loved and cared for by two people, with no real motivation to choose one over the other.

So, to avoid an indefinite period of suffering while a wayward spouse vacillates between spouse and lover, and to avoid rewarding the selfish behavior of having needs met by both spouse and lover, if plan A does not work within a reasonable period of time, I recommend plan B.

Plan B is for the betrayed spouse to avoid all contact with the wayward spouse until the affair has completely ended and the wayward spouse has agreed to my plan for recovery. In many cases, once an affair has ended, a betrayed spouse makes the mistake of taking the wayward spouse back before an agreement is made regarding marital recovery. This leads to a return to all the conditions that made the affair possible -- love is not restored, resentment is not overcome, and there is a very great risk for another affair. Without agreement and subsequent implementation of a plan for recovery, the betrayed spouse is better off continuing with plan B.

Since plan B (and plan A, for that matter), is extremely stressful for the betrayed spouse, I usually recommend that he or she ask a physician to prescribe anti-depressant medication to be taken throughout the crisis. This not only greatly reduces the suffering of the betrayed spouse, but it also helps keep a clear head at a time when patience and wise decisions are crucial. Anti-depressant medication does not numb the betrayed spouse to the crisis, it actually helps raise him or her above emotional reactions that would otherwise prevent clear-headed thinking. Why suffer and and make poor choices when anti-depressant medication can help ease your pain and improve your concentration in this time of unprecedented crisis?

While I have seen remarkable success by people using plan A and plan B, success is by no means guaranteed. The problem with Plan B is that the unfaithful spouse may not return, nor agree to the plan for recovery, even after the affair has ended. Separation in marriage is always risky because, "out of sight, out of mind." Unless plan A leaves the wayward s pouse with the impression that returning home is an attractive choice, separation can become permanent. So before implementing plan B, you want to be sure that the last thing your spouse remembers about you is the care and thoughtfulness you offered in plan A. That way, the separation can help create, "absence makes the heart grow fonder."

As it turns out, most affairs end within six months of their seeing the light of day (being revealed to their family and friends), and almost all affairs end without leading to marriage. Even those few that end in marriage have only a 25% rate of success. That's because affairs are based on dishonesty and thoughtlessness for the feelings of others. That same dishonesty and thoughtlessness eventually turns on the lovers themselves, and the affair is destroyed by those same flaws that made it possible in the first place. What drives affairs is passion, not commitment, and once the passion wanes, there is nothing to help the lovers restore their passion. Marriage, on the other hand, especially with children, has many factors that motivate couples to restore their passion for each other after passion has waned. So when passion is gone from an affair, a wayward spouse is usually motivated to return to the betrayed spouse by all of these other factors. For most, it's a logical choice.


The way I interpet this, PLAN B IS PART OF THE RECOVERY PLAN after PLAN A but it is a LAST RESORT. The WS has to depend on the OP to MEET ALL OF THE ENs rather than being able to cake-eat. The OP typically FAILS miserably and the BS is not available to provide relief. While cake-eating, ENs are met by both the BS and the OW.


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Ok, I'm going to re-read all of what was posted last night when I get home from work this evening. I'm copying and posting an email he sent to me last night... now tell me this isn't a guy who is totally out of love with his wife and wants to move on? ;-(

"I want
to remain friends... and you want more than that,
which makes it difficult for me to try to balance
being friends and not giving you the impression that I
am changing my mind.

as far as the meals go, I also think that gives the
kids (and maybe you) the wrong impression. Don't get
me wrong I want the kids to know that we can get along
and be friends.. and still both love them and raise
them. I don't want them to think that is not going to
happen. I also don't want them to think that we are
working things out and everything is gonna go back to
what it used to be.

The sake of the kids is very important to me. don't
think for a second that because what i am doing, makes
me not care about the kids or how they will turn out.
We've given them a great foundation and they are very
smart. They're not going to fall all to pieces
because we grew apart..or i grew apart.. however u
want to put it.

I want what is best for them also, and me coming back
and not being as happy as i can be... would not be
good for any of us.

I'm working Sunday dayshift... so seeing the kids
that day is probably out. Maybe I can take them out
for breakfast or make them breakfast sat. morning.
either that or Dinner friday evening. I'm supposed to
play poker friday night with the **** not sure if I'm going to do that."

I see/hear no babble... all I see is he's done and moving on.

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"I want what is best for them also, and me coming back
and not being as happy as i can be... would not be
good for any of us."


i am by no means an expert... but that looks like complete babble to me. Waht is best for them is to have two parents who know how to love each other more inspite of all that has happened. This would be an invaluable lession for them to learn.


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Soon,

Something you need to understand about babble that I had trouble with as well. Babble is not the odd line here or there, it's a mindset. That mindset being that anything that has to do with the M is negative. The problem they run into is that they know what they are doing is wrong so they must justify it, and that's where you get babble. First they convince themselves to believe the babble, once they’ve done that it becomes their truth so yes it sounds convincing because they believe it, the last step is to convince others of this new found truth. That is exactly the whole purpose of his e-mail, to convince you of this new truth.

What he doesn't know is that you know that it is babble and can ignore it for what it is. All this [email]cr@p[/email] about being friends to make it easier on the kids is just that [email]cr@p.[/email] This e-mail is about making a D as easy as possible on him. Look at the last paragraph, he "might" do breakfast; he "might" not go to poker. Does that sound like a guy who is really looking out for the welfare of his kids?

You are at a crossroads Soon. If you want to be his friend, there is nothing wrong with that, but the marriage will probably die (Mimi explains it best). If you want to be his wife, I agree with the vets here that you need to go to Plan B. I know that there are certain things that Plan B are truly meant for, but I also believe that the timing of your actions can also make a difference, and right now the timing would be good as you know that the owner of the hogmobile (Did you like how I avoided using the W word. LOL) is starting to LB him, and he's showing signs that things are not that pretty over in hogtown, so by putting him in a position where his ENs get net by her, and his visits with the kids are scheduled, it will put real pressure on the A.

You know we love you dear. Hang tough we're by your side.


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DD 16
DD 11
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Quote
don't
think for a second that because what i am doing, makes
me not care about the kids or how they will turn out.

BULL SH*T. His actions show he doesn't care... He doesn't understand how selfish his actions are or how it affects them and how they feel. So dont buy that horse crap for one minute.

It is all babble...

That's all I see... He's justifying in his own mind why he can't come home.

me coming back
and not being as happy as i can be... would not be
good for any of us.


Yes it would...It would be good for everyone. He's just too damn addicted to see that right now.

SS he's not moving on he's justifying what he's doing in his own mind... Don't listen to his words watch his actions. He's conflicted. I would expect one minute he's acting semi human and the next he's not.


BH, 46
STBXWW, 41, Serial Cheater
D-Day #1 5-26-2006 (Our Wedding Aniversary)
D-Day #2 12-26-2007
D-Day #3 5-11-2008
Separated 1-5-2008
STBX filed for divorce March 2009
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Quote
I want
to remain friends... and you want more than that,
which makes it difficult for me to try to balance
being friends and not giving you the impression that I
am changing my mind.


Interpreted to mean, "I WANT TO CAKE-EAT". I betcha he would not be your friend if/when you find another man. He is not seeing you RESPECTING you as a GODDESS/WOMAN/SEXUAL BEING. He sees you as not having needs for a MAN. So, he wants YOU and HER. You, being his FRIEND with you not having any other MALE friends. Got it? That's why PLAN A must involve you working on being a GODDESS. A REAL WOMAN IN ALL RESPECTS!! This really POed me about my H. I didn't sign on to be his FRIEND. I can have WOMAN FRIENDS to meet the FRIEND NEED. I signed on to be HIS WIFE...mother of his children, life partner, sex partner, the whole deal..HOW DARE HE SELL YOU SHORT and make you into being a SECOND-CLASS whatever....I hope you don't buy into this BULL CRAP...

Quote
Don't get
me wrong I want the kids to know that we can get along
and be friends.. and still both love them and raise
them.


This is NUTS..A MAN can't RAISE his kids in a healthy, normal fashion LIVING WITH ANOTHER WOMAN.

Quote
The sake of the kids is very important to me. don't
think for a second that because what i am doing, makes
me not care about the kids or how they will turn out.
We've given them a great foundation and they are very
smart. They're not going to fall all to pieces
because we grew apart..or i grew apart..



I hope you find it INSULTING that he thinks that you are stupid enough to buy this BULLCRAP. Make it CLEAR to him that you do not BUY this. You do not have to say it by LOVEBUSTING. Tell him that what he is saying does not make sense, that you do not agree. It is easy to do. "CHILDREN ARE MOST HAPPY WHEN RAISED, IF POSSIBLE, BY BOTH OF THEIR PARENTS LIVING TOGETHER"..PERIOD..Make it like THE FACT that it is...

Quote
Maybe I can take them out
for breakfast or make them breakfast sat. morning.


WHOOPEE..I'll give my kids CRUMBS and that evidences to them that I care about them..YUCK...

Quote
I see/hear no babble... all I see is he's done and moving on.


WHAT? THIS IS ALL BABBLE..STRAIGHT OUT OF THE WS SCRIPT..NO DIFFERENT THAN WHAT THEY ALL SAY...

What I don't like is that he thinks that he has YOU FOOLED...

I want you to RISE UP, SERENITY! In order for your marriage to recover, HE HAS TO RESPECT YOU!! He has to see you as being VALUABLE!!

This is NOT ABOUT WHAT HE THINKS or WHAT HE WANTS.

This is about how you view yourself.

He clearly continues to have love for you.

The key now is for you to EVIDENCE LOVE OF YOURSELF...to FEEL GOOD about who you are and what you believe in...

He is asking your permission to MOVE ON...

He wants you to ENABLE HIM to MOVE ON..

"OK, WH, I GO ALONG WITH YOUR SICK PLAN"...

Tell him where YOU STAND on this...what YOU want..what YOU believe in..

STAND FIRM..HEAD UP..CHEST OUT...LIP GLOSS ON!!!


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COME ON SERENITY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Blah blah blah babble babble bullcrap!!!!

Quit buying his blubber. This is sooooo sad to see you get mowed over by someone who is so clearly sick. Is that how you want to be perceived by him? By your children? Tell you what-spend ONE WEEK doing exactly what we tell you to do, and if it doesn't make a difference, you can ignore us and do whatever you want.

First thing-reply to the email. No long, drawn out responses, just highlight and past each of his paragraphs and give one-line answers to the BABBLE that speaks your TRUTH.

Paragraph #1 response: I am not your friend, I am your wife, whether that makes you uncomfortable or not.

Paragraph #2 response: You spending time with your children is something they deserve. You are their father.

Paragraph #3 response: Children of broken families suffer greatly. The very best thing for our children is for them to have their mother and father married and living together. We both owe it to them to be together and work this out.

Paragraph #4 response (this one is a KILLER-him being as "happy as he can be"...GOOD GRIEF!!) I am the person who can make you as "happy as you can be" and you CAN be in love with me this way again. I have a plan to make this happen if you come home.

Paragraph #5 response: The children deserve to be the FIRST priority in your life. Please give them that courtesy as their father.

*****
Mimi...does this look OK?

SS-you are going to lose him if you do not RISE UP!! Follow the example of your FRIEND Not2fun. You will make a difference!

Second order of business...GET BUSY!!! Quit worrying about what he is doing. Quit being available for his every scrap. VALUE YOURSELF and he will value you as well. Throw yourself into your work, your children, your house, your personal growth. Take up a new hobby...SOMETHING! Make this your GOAL for the next week, to be "unavailable" and make it because you are working on your SELF and your CHILDREN who are suffering their mother accepting scraps form a man who is living with another woman. For goodness sakes, SS, you daughter is being approached by other kids who know of the A. Do a great Plan A for a few day and prep for Plan B.

Just give it chance, SS...there are many success stories here and you have really great vets helping you-don't let this opportunity pass you by...


Peace,
LaLa

FWW(me) 37
BS 38
DS 9 & 5
PA 7/06-8/06
Dday 2/17/07

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I LOVE YOUR E-MAIL RESPONSE and ALL YOU HAVE SAID TO SERENITY, LaLa...

He's playing a MIND GAME on you, Serenity!!

It is time for you to STEP UP AND OUT!! TODAY!! RIGHT THIS MINUTE!!

Go get a makeover..new haircut..new makeup..get out of your COMFORT ZONE..time for a NEW YOU...FOR YOUR OWN SAKE...

Your GIRLS will HELP you and will find this to be EXCITING!!

He wants you sitting there waiting for him while he goes out to play.

IT'S TIME FOR YOU TO PLAY!!


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SS,

A WS spouse lies about things for months, perhaps even years. They lie about:

Where they have been...
Who they have been with...
What they were doing while not at home...
Who they have been talking to...
Who they have been spending their time with...
The things they have been talking about with OP...
The stuff that is wrong with the marriage...
The stuff that is wrong with the BS...
Who they have been boinking on the side...
What they have spent money on...

And when they tell the BS that the marriage is over and nothing can be done to save it...

Why in HE!! does the BS believe them?

When he says he wants to be friends with OW...He means he wants to keep you but keep boinking her.

When he says he wants to remain friends with you...He means he wants to keep you in case it doesn't work out while he is boinking her.

When he says the kids will be OK as long as you go along with his plan...He means he wants to keep boinking her while you keep the family together for when he is tired of boinking her...

If he wanted to be rid of you, he would have filed by now.

It ALL means he wants you to wait till he gets done boinking her...

Plan B let's you heal and live a life of just daily normal drama instead of affair drama while he gets tired of boinking her. Unless you get there before you lose all love for him and have no respect left for yourself, you might as well skip the logistical nightmare of Plan B and go right for Plan D because if you don't want him back, there can be no recovery.

And that will be the result if you let him keep eating his cake...He wants to boink her, but he doesn't want to give you up in case it doesn't work out. He basically wants his marriage, but he wants to keep boinking her...And will if you let him continue doing it.

This is why Plan A has to be hot and heavy, precise and short in duration. . It is because you can't really Plan A properly for very long because it will kill YOU before it kills the affair in most cases.

And THAT is why there is even a Plan B.

Mark

PS I'm going to cut and paste something I posted last night about what happens to children whose parents divorce because of an affair. It'll be my next post to you.

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I posted this on another thread last night addressed to a WW who has been reading her husband's thread. Might give you some things to think about in order to respond to his assertions that the kids will be fine:

Quote
MIL left her husband for OM when her daughters were teenagers and preteen.

1 was married 4 times, now alone. She lost a son soon after first divorce to an accident while he was with the babysitter while she worked her second job. Her daughter is married for the second time. Her grandchildren are in therapy.

1 is with her 4th husband. She got pregnant at 14 and married at 15. She has 4 adult children by 3 different men and one she gave up for adoption because she was single (divorced) when she got pregnant. Her oldest was living with a guy when she got pregnant by someone else. Now married to a different guy. Her second daughter lives with another woman. Her son and his wife are in counseling. Her other son...she has no idea where he is.

1 has had multiple affairs after getting pregnant and married at 17. She got pregnant by another man and kept it a secret for over ten years. Her husband has raised that child as his own. Her daughter is divorced and has a child she conceived with another guy before moving home with the child at the age of thirty.

1 has been married for 20+ years and seems to have a good life....but she lives 1000 miles from the rest of the family. She was but 9 when MIL left with the piano teacher.

They all get together for funerals.

MIL is still married to her OM, but she sees her children, grandchildren and great grandchildren about once every 3 or 4 years and seldom for longer than a day or two at a time. Two of her great grandchildren she has never seen in person; they are 3 and 4 years old.

It's the price she paid to be with her "soulmate".

Her XH (FIL) was married to someone else for 30 years. He died and now his and MIL's children call his widow "Mom" and their children call her Grandma. They visit her several times per year, even though she lives several states away.

Just something to consider...

Mark

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ugh! I am soooo mad right now! I was in a perfectly good mood coming home from work, til I found a message on the answering machine for him about a loan application he did online for a vehicle. Just today I was thinking great I get to drive this pos van around for the next 7 years because of bankruptcy he wants to declare. So anyway I was mad and wanted to talk to him, because several weeks ago we talked about NOT making any big purchases and to PLEASE not use my ssn for anything. Well I called and left two messages for him and text him. I was going to call his work. And if I happend to get his boss tell her exactly what he's done to his family... well he called. I asked him about buying a new car and he said I didnt have any intention on buying a new car I screamed at him!!! "you didn't have any intention of moving in with **** but you did anyway" and I slammed the phone down. I have NEVER screamed at him before I'm just so pissed off!!

He called me right back and he said what do you want a new vehicle. I said no. I want you to come home. We chatted for a bit and then he had to go.

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Ummmmm....bravo Miss Serenity....the anger for you is good. Probably scared the begezzers out of WS...hmmmmmm

did you think about what everyone wrote you???? Plan B honey, you CANNOT keep this up....

Anyway, I love ya honey....hang in there....

not2fun

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I knew not to respond to his email until I got some help... because of my blindness to his babble. Thank you LaLa, I did respond with your suggestions except for #1 I'm afraid to say that... he'll go straight for a divorce and then say see you aren't my wife!

This sucks so darn bad. I thought for sure he would have come to his senses by now. I peeked at his email and they're talking about adopting dogs. That's pretty darn permanent if you ask me, it hurts.

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Okay I just read all 40 pages. Wow SS.

I am almost 5 years out from DDay. And when I found out he was seeing his co-worker(s), I went to the store where he worked and did some shopping with both of my children (head high, chest out.) I had not done anything wrong!

When I looked around, I could tell immediately who one of them was. I did my shopping and went right up to her register to pay for it. My kids were all over the place, and I said, "I'm sorry they are messing everything up."

She said, "WHAT?" She thought I was saying something about her messing things up. LOL! So I paid and kindly thanked her.

I saw my husband in the background completely freaked out. Completely unnerved. I mouthed to him with a smirk as I walked out of the store, "I hate you." (in a kind of flirty way)

He said later that when he told her I knew it was her, she couldn't believe it and felt "bad". Whatever!

The best part of it was after all my belly aching and crying he said it was so nice to see me strong and confident.

This is something I think you really need to learn, Soon. You need to get comfortable in your skin (and sexual---I've had to learn this is okay in my marriage as well.)

Respect for myself changed the whole thing, and I would not accept less than all of him. And he knew it!

Does your WS know it?

Sorry...your story has really moved me. It is time to stand up and claim what is yours!


Married 20 yrs
Me:FBW
Him: FWH
4 children
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 502
S
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Member
S
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 502

I know, I know plan B, if it isn't already too late.

Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 502
S
Member
OP Offline
Member
S
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 502

stand up and claim what is mine... call the ho or go visit her, I'd love to give her a piece of my mind I'm so friggin' pissed right now!!

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