MIN:

There was a guy here a few years back, Jack55, who's W went off and had an A and left him wanting 2 DV quickly 2 alleviate the pain.

He was DV'd less than 90 days from d-day. Something like 2 or 3 months later, he was engaged 2 someone else when his W "woke up" and wanted 2 come home.

It's an interesting read, mostly for the perspective. I don't necessarily think he did what was best. But last I heard, he seemed 2 be happy in his new R.

-ol' 2long

Thanks 2Long...I am trying to make the right decisions, but I can't continue to sit here and hope and she just keeps messing with my emotions. Every time she feels me pulling away she reels me back in and when I do she just spits me back out again.

I have decided to take control of this situation by moving forward with a divorce and leaving the future of our family in the hands of God. I still continue to Plan A and will even after we separate, but I am no longer going to give her control of my emotions. Feel free to set me straight if I am off track in any way.

Plan B first. You're reacting---not acting. And 888-639-1639.

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How will D keep her from "controlling your emotions" MiN? A D is a legal proceeding, it has nothing to do with your emotions.

Understood and appreciate the straight forward feedback. She filed before I did yesterday as it turns out and I was just tired of waiting for the axe to drop and continue being victimized.

Believe it or not I did have at least some temporary satisfaction yesterday by trying to get this done. I understand that D is just a legal proceeding, but just sitting here in Plan A while continually getting my teeth kicked in daily makes you feel helpless and powerless.

Maybe this is just a guy thing in regards to having some kind of control, but the alternative is a living ******.

No. The alternative is ... Plan B.

Control. No contact from WS, much less emotional trauma. Plan B is about you regaining control, and saving your love from an abusive situation.

The only thing I think you should consider is, perhaps, dragging the divorce out significantly while you go to Plan B.

Since she has filed...NOW...may be as good a time as any to actually go into a modified Plan B. I say modified only because you are potentially in a custody dispute and the courts (and their representatives, like GAL's and parent evaluators) don't like strict Plan B's. They encourage parents to get along "for the good of the children" with complete disregard to the abuse the WS has put the BS through. To be sure, MB doesn't advocate a modified Plan B. It's a full Plan B or it's not Plan B. But, as an attorney (and your attorney will likely agree) a Modified Plan B is OK and won't jeopardize you case.

A modified Plan B is the same as a full one except you don't tell your WS that there actually is an intermediary intercepting your emails. You limit the forms of communications between you and her to a notebook, email. Cell phone always goes to voice mail when she calls and should only be used for ACTUAL emergencies. Text messages are also OK for last minute information but you don't speak to her unless it's truly an emergency. You Plan B letter just varies regarding the intermediary.

Another reason to NOT hurry the case along is you want to be sure to get a shot at deposing your wife and OM. Just as your wife is no doubt rewriting your history today...5 or 10 years from now the circumstances of your divorce, especially in front of the children when you aren't around, will also significant change. I strongly suggest you use depositions to obtain, verify, and document the break up of your marriage as well as to dig into OM's life (since this man??? MAY end up around your children for years to come.

Only after such depositions do you even consider settling.

Mr. Wondering

You will be in my prayers MiN.

My father in-law spoke with my WW yesterday and was telling her how difficult it is to raise a child in separate homes and said that neither one of us could be both parents to our daughter. After speaking with him about 30 minutes my WW spoke to me and was crying saying she didn't believe she could be happy regardless what decision she made in regards to myself, OM or our marriage.

Instead of trying to comfort her like I have done in the past, I just politely changed the subject, detached and tried to get off the phone. It seems that in the past everytime I have tried to be there for her it just gives her more comfort that she is not going to lose me and I just get kicked in the teeth again. I decided that I am going to let her figure this out on her own and that maybe when she hits rock bottom she will be able to make some decisions to get some help and counseling.

She has mentioned numerous times that she would like to get some individual counseling for things that are bothering her, but she never seems to take the proactive steps necessary to get some help.

Should I continue to try and comfort her when she is upset and be there for her or just let her figure this out for herself? Thanks for any feedback and opinions.

You answered your own question. In fact, Mr. W gave you a wonderful suggestion about going into a modified Plan B since she has already filed for D. By going Plan B, she won't be able to pick up the phone and cry to you when she's feeling bad (cake eating). PLUS, you'll protect the love that you still have for her.

MIN,

I think you are "playing" this step perfectly. Realize the A is all about her and right now any chance of recovery is all about her as well. You are probably realizing you will be fine. I found out that if my WW really wanted OM she could have the idiot. He couldn't even spell spouse correctly. I knew she would come to her senses but that it might be well after I moved on. I was ready for that. It seems you are too.

Don't give up hope, just don't let her see how much you care quite so much. Let her be alone. She will be doing heavy thinking. Hopefully very alone. WWs have a lot of pride to swallow. They chose some very bad things and its very difficult to admit. Don't do any LBing, but don't strive to meet ENs either. Go live your life, let her suffer. As I said in previous posts under my Plan A, either way she chooses, fence sitting and cake eating come with a high price that she will be paying. I have faith that she will ultimately end up paying it back to you in gratitude. Prayers with you.

Thanks BigPicture....I am going to call the Harleys and have them help me with a modified Plan B since we are going to separate very soon. I will continue to distance and detach in the meantime.

I am definitely not giving up hope, but I can no longer continue getting emotionally abused because I feel myself getting more and more bitter every time she reels me back in only to kick me to the curb again.

Throughout the entire time I have known her (prior to the affair) she has always been so level headed and made good decisions. Now, every decision she seems to make uses no logic, common sense and is absolutely selfish with no consideration for our daughter or myself. I know she is in a fog, but does anyone think she is experiencing any regret or wondering if she is doing the right thing? Thanks.

Okay, yesterday something really strange happened. My WW and I were discussing details of our separation and day care for our daughter came up. She wanted to look at moving her to a day care closer to her job and this turned into a little bit of an argument because I am very happy with the day care she is currently in.

Anyway, after this turning into a little bit of an argument we had a chance to cool down. We were then giving our daughter a bath and my WW turns to me and asks me what is wrong. I just told her I can't believe this is happening to our family. Then for the first time, she actually showed remorse and sorrow and she started crying. She told me how sorry she was and that she wishes she had never contacted OM and that this would have never happened. She tells me that she is so confused and scared. She doesn't want to give up OM because he meets some of her EN's that I didn't meet and she also doesn't want to give up our family. I then told her that I had been willing to meet her EN's and knew how now, but that she wouldn't let me. She said she is afraid of her and I falling back into the same rut as we were prior to the affair.

She then told me that after this thing ends with her and OM she wants to go to counseling and work on our marriage. I didn't really know how to respond to that with out LB'ing, but I told her I didn't know if I could just sit around and wait for her although I desperately want our marriage to work and be a family again. She then told me she understood and wouldn't be mad if I dated. I didn't know what to say to that. Seems to be that me dating would make her feel better than it would make me.

I really want to be there for her in her time of confusion and hurt, but I really don't know what to do at this point if she isn't willing to work on our marriage and give up the OM. After an emotional discussion we just lightly ended the conversation and started playing with our daughter.

We are still planning on separating, but I don't know if she still wants to proceed with a divorce.

Any advice, feedback or next recommended course of action would be greatly appreciated. I have no idea how to proceed next.

Hi MIN:

All this stuff is textbook behavior for a wayward spouse. The addictive nature of the affair---one minute she's disrespecting everything, then next minute she's back, then she's telling you that it's OK if you date too.

My feedback to you is to tell her that you're more than willing to learn how to meet her needs. That you're working with an expert in this area (Steve Harley). And that he'd like to talk to you to gather more feedback...

She needs to be educated to what she's doing. This is absolutely not your job---you won't be able to do it effectively (she won't listen), and it'll hurt your balance in her lovebank. That's why I'd like to see you get Steve involved---to let her have a session or two with him (for 'feedback').

You're doing a good job with being very consistent with her: you want to work on the marriage. Your willing to do what it takes to make the marriage a great place for her (meet her needs). You're not interested in dating, separation, or divorce. You feel it'll be best for your family to work on this marriage. Continue to be very consistent with this message---when she comes out of the fog, she'll remember it.

Damn, I lost a post! I agree with K. The only other thing I would maybe suggest is that you find Harley's material about A's being addictive behavior and see if she will read that. I do see the merit in K's statement that relationship counseling should not be coming from you, but if she won't agree to talk to SH then it needs to come from somewhere. Even if it is percieved as a LB it might be worth it. Don't push it on her, just provide it to her is my thought.

We just finished the book "Infidelity: A Survival Guide" by Don-David Lusterman and it in many ways mirrors MB principals but reaches more into the WS mindset in some ways. You might buy it and "forget" it at the house along with some of the affairs=addiction material? I just think it would be good for her to realize that what she is doing/feeling is not unique?

Its good that she's conflicted MiN!

MIN,

Hello! McFly! Do not plan B unless you absolutely cannot cope. Do not let the D filing fool you. She just doesn't know what else to do right now. She cannot see a way out of this mess so this is her solution. Because she did it before and she knows the attorney (idiot) and he is free and blah blah blah. More D will only get her more D's. Not happy marriages. You have better ideas. MBers principals.

She is doing everything expected. Torn, conflicted, sorrow, hurt, anger, etc. A flood of emotions. She hates herself, hates you, hates OM. Then loves you, loves OM, see saw, yo yo, rubberbands. Have you seen my post on plan A in the Plan A board? Act on your principals. You keep saying your emotions are getting to be too much so start acting on your goals and plans. Like you are doing, detached loving. I know its tough, been there with A being thrown in my face. Hang in there. She is stuck thinking there is no solution that will make her happy. My WW said the EXACT same thing couple months back. Plan A changed her mind. Bigtime. She will come around. Your last incident over the daycare gives ME hope for you!


MIN I am a salesman. Nobody buys anthing because I TELL them to. They buy for their own reasons. You cannot convince her of anything. You can however ASK her! E.G. Salesguy: You should buy this car. Buyer: I don't like the color. thats a deadend. VERSUS Why would you like to buy this car?????? I like the ______. That produces results. Now I know what he likes even if its not that car he purchases.

One thing I read in Hope4Us thread that Harley asked him to ask his WW was this... If there was a way for us to become very happy with each other in our marriage would you consider looking at that? See!? He is ASKING.

YOU: "WW if there was a way that I could demonstrate how I have learned to meet your EN's would you consider a trial like that for 3 months?"

Then get her to read some stuff like SAA or HSHN or the EN questions. When my WW picked up SAA she said she identified immediately with the WW letters in the first 5 pages. Those letters let her see that becoming happy in her marriage was possible, even after this disaster and extreme negative thoughts, and that her feelings were not unusual or different.

Has she seen the EN questionnaire? Maybe that will help her identify what you need to work on. Maybe she doesn't know herself what you need to work on either.

If she answers anything like that then introduce a MB piece.

Don't talk about your changes, just demonstrate.

MIN, could you add a signature line to your posts so we can quickly recall time frames and other important details, etc.

Update:

My WW and I have physically separated. However 2 days ago, she TM'd me and called my cell phone in the middle of the night and left a message for me to call her. I called her back and she started telling me how she thinks she made a mistake and wishes she never would have contacted the OM in the first place. She then proceeds to tell me what precipitated all of these thoughts.

Apparently the OM got a job in the city that his BS and DD moved to as a result of the divorce and he was going to move there which happened 3 days ago. My WW tried to contact him several times by TM and phone and he had turned his phone off for the entire night. This was an immediate red flag to my WW since he pulled the same stunt with his BS. After trying to get a hold of him for several hours she left him messages telling him that she doesn't want to continue the relationship and is going to block his emails and phone #'s. She was obviously upset and hurt which is when she decided to call me in the middle of the night.

The next day he tried to contact her and make up some story about why his phone was turned off, but she didn't buy it. For the last couple of days he has been relentless trying to get ahold of her, has tried everything from begging to name calling which has been huge LB'ers for my WW. She said she has never seen this side of him before.

Last night he continued to contact her by TM'ing her repeatedly and she called me again late last night wanting me to come over and be with her because she was having a really hard time not contacting him or calling him. I told her that I just couldn't do it because I'm just not emotionally stable enough. I also said that her feelings for him and lack of feelings for me wouldn't be a solution in her getting over him and even if I came over that night the next nights would be no different. She understood and admitted that the only reason she wanted me to come over was for that reason and also admitted she would be using me. I appreciated her honesty, but I just couldn't do it.

Now I find myself desperately wanting to be there for her and help her permanently end her A with the OM, but I don't feel that I am part of the solution. I really need some advice on a plan of action considering the fact that we are now separated because I really believe that she isn't going to be strong enough to stand up to his continued assault on her emotions and she is going to go back to him.

Your continued support and advice is appreciated and needed.

I may be a newbie on MB principles, but there is a time to detach from the crap and then there is a time to be a lighthouse and Fight for your wife and family. I think you had an opportunity to do the latter.

I would have not hesitated to step up to the plate and perhaps even call the OM with your wife by your side and say what part of buzz off do you not understand ?

I saw an opportunity to break this cycle and be the hero. Anyone out there - let me know if I am in error.

MIN - I think this is VERY insightful of you. She KNOWS what she is doing and for you not to play into her wayward trap is a GOOD thing. Let her sit in her own mess for a while. She needs to miss you, not just want to use you.

You can meet her EN's another time when it isn't such a compromise for you, and that will show her that you respect yourself.

Free

MIN,

The night I didn't come home thinking I was implementing plan B was EXACTLY the same thing. My WW was texting me and leaving me voice mails at 2 am. At that point is was her turn to sit up all night freaking out being an emotional basket case wondering what she had done. I on the other hand was enjoying a peaceful night of sleep for the first time in a long time.

I think you have a VERY good situation here if your intention is still to restore your marriage. My WW has come back to me whole heartedly and said ALL the things a BS would want to hear. And done all the things like give me her email password, tell me about any additional contact from OM etc etc. We are on a very strong path to recovery and I don't see anything but the same from your WW. Only better because OM is now not in same town right! God's blessings. Avoid LBer's but take the reconciliation at your pace if needed. But be there for her too. I know she doesn't deserve it, but she is hurting too. And if you have the strength to open your arms to her to comfort her she will see you for the BIG man you are.. able to carry her pain and yours, able to rise above the disaster and be the lighthouse for your marriage and family.

Maybe you want to arrange family time but not couple time. That way you get to bond but get to avoid personal emotional trauma right now. Be strong. Please believe in your chances, I find much encouragement for you.