I think you handled it well. I think now is the time for some conditions. Tell her you want to work on the marriage and are willing to but not until certain things have happened, and basically give her what your Plan B conditions for reconciliation would have been.

If you go back to her before she's willing to meet those, then your M doesn't have a chance does it? And it sounds like no matter what happens, OM is on his way out, so let him be the bad guy.

MIN

Not sure if you are in PLan A or Plan B - let us know. I am assuming you are still in Plan A even though separated. If Plan A then feelings of being used have to be in check. You cannot expect any outcome from any action.

If she was reaching out for help to end the A with OM while OM was LBing - that was an opportunity to be the good guy. No conditions nor expectations in Plan A. I understand the feeling of being used - this whole affair business makes the BS feel like a doormat.

There will be other opportunities - this A is coming to a head.

Thanks for the feedback guys. I still consider myself in more of a Plan A right now even though we are separated. I am however guarding my heart and my feelings and keeping some distance.

Since it has only been a few days and she hasn't actually asked me to move back I think I am going to give it awhile to make sure the other guy is gone. So far they have called this thing off several times only to end up back together a few days later. To be honest, the same wouldn't surprise me if it happened again.

The OM is still mounting his continual assault on her trying to get her back and although she is still hanging in there it has only been a few days. I think she is coming out of the fog a little bit for now because she is acting more like her old self and becoming a little bit flirty. That being said I have seen this several times before I my heart can't take another riverdance all over it. I need to keep my distance until she comes to me wanting our marriage to work at which time I can lay out some conditions.

Good news last night though....I left her Surviving an Affair on her bed before she got home last night and she called me and thanked me for leaving it. She then TM'd me later to say she had read the first chapter and says it is a very good book and looks forward to reading more. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that she will continue to read it so she can see the clear and narrow path to recovering our marriage after she gives her self some time for withdrawal. I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

Those sound like good signs MiN, hopefully she's coming around.

Okay....just talked to my WW and she is still talking to OM and somehow he has flipped things around on her to make her feel like the bad guy. She says he is mad at her about everything and she is still trying to get over him. She is also still in contact with him daily although things are not good right now.

This is classic....she thinks he is cheating on her with his BS, she gets mad and tells him she doesn't want to continue this relationship, he then tells her she is psycho and deranged for thinking such a thing, now she is back on her heels and trying to contact him because he has her convinced that she is overreacting.

She is still contacting me throughout this week, being flirty, telling me she is trying to get over him, telling me she hopes her and I workout someday and in the meantime this whole mess is back to square one again I get kicked in the teeth again. This whole thing is wearing me down where I don't know how much more I can take.

been there...

the affair seems to be imploding

Depending on your strength either

1. Support her as best you can doing Plan A and meeting her needs, reverse babbling, etc...look at the only upside to the current situation...being you are getting more opportunity to Plan A and focus less on hoping that THIS is the end of the affair....no, THIS is the end of the affair. The affair WILL end when it ends.

2. Stay away from her and allow her to feel rock bottom as both her affair and, maybe, her husband pull away from her at the same time (more risky but if you can't hack it you can't hack it).


I say...do #1 and don't expect things to change. Worry about what you do and what you can control.

ACT, Don't REACT

Take sometime for yourself to recharge when necessary. Go for a walk, to the gym, to a movie on your own. Don't obsess (easier said then done) but you need to take breathers from time to time but ulitimately your not in control of this....only yourself.

Mr. Wondering

p.s. - a suggestion...don't just take a break this weekend on your own...perhaps invite your wife along to "take a break" also. Say...."honey, I need a break...lets just go out Sat night and NOT talk about this crap at all...just have a good time...not a date...just a few drinks (or a movie)...nothing romantic". Then...follow through and just let it go for a few hours with her...it will do MORE for recovery efforts, in the long run, than ANY conversation ever could. You MAY end up with a surprisingly candid conversation initiated by HER at the end of the night anyway...I did.

MiN

Mr W post is great advice. He has a way of understanding the situation and looking down the road on these things.

very tough road you are on - there is no doubt.

Another day of drama...I keep trying not to react, but I am as week as my WW when it comes to doing what needs to be done.

All this week and as late as last night she has been talking about reconciling someday and working on our marriage. Then I find out she was on the phone with OM for an hour last night and he apologized for the way he has treated her.

This morning she picks a fight out of nowhere and starts recapping all of the things I have done in the past again. Then when I start showing some emotion by crying she starts throwing daggers by saying how delicate I am. She then immediately says let's just end this (meaning filing for divorce).

My sadness turned to anger bitterness really quick and I immediately started shooting off emails to give her some perspective on what is going on and how I am sick of her cruelty and thoughtlessness.

Long story short she is completely unemotional when she tells me that we just need to end it and be done with it. Then she tells me that her hour long conversation with OM last night was him telling her that he is contemplating getting back with is BS and that what the hour long conversation was for.

I need some insight on why she is attacking me right now and picking a fight and being so hurtful along with my next recommended course of action since she seems so emotionally hollow right now.

Now I receive the following email....any feedback on how I should proceed would be appreciated.


My WW's email:

The text last night saying we would fix this was in reference to taking down my profile on Match. Go back and read it in that context. Lance, I would love for us to be able to be a family, but I just don’t know how that will ever happen. If you want to talk at the house or something like that, we can, but I’m not doing this at work.

If you cannot Plan A effectively, then you need to at least stop doing damage. I would tell her that there is nothing to talk about until she agrees to NC with OM, and STICK TO IT! Right now, you are feeding the beast, and it isn't good for you or the marriage.

She's mad at you because in a perfect world, er, a perfect FANTASY world. She and OM wouldn't be married, they'd be together forever, sipping margarita's on a beach in Mexico.

You and the rest of the REAL WORLD are torturing her.


It is likely the affair is imploding and OM is ending it (nothing is for sure); thus, I recommend staying out of the way and allowing it to end.

When OM dumped my wife...we went out to dinner and she was thinking exactly like your wife. She believed OM dumped her because it was just too complicated...thus, in her fog, the only way to uncomplicate it was for her to leave me, travel 750 miles away to live, leave dd5 here in Michigan with me, and EXPLORE their affair...you know...just to see. I didn't get mad. The affair was over and I EXPECTED that reaction (i.e.- ANYTHING to get another fix). I simply said "no" and continued on with my meal. I didn't cry or get upset. I was beyond that. I had no idea if OM was truly done with her (though I suspected it WAS actually over) and I knew my wife wasn't done with it....didn't change how I reacted. Just tried to enjoy my time with her that day and let tomorrow take care of itself. Talking about leaving...talking about divorcing you...talking about anything is irrelevant....you only REALLY have a problem when she takes action. Only some WS's actually do take action and hardly any do once the affair is over and withdrawal kicks in. The depression is overwhelming and they just seem to coast along in peaks and valleys TRYING to maintain a fantasy in their minds but slowly coming back to reality.

If you've read on these boards enough you'll notice my loving wife eventually came around...in spades. Clearing FOG takes time and really your wife will or won't do it ON HER OWN. Your best bet is being the best and strongest YOU that YOU can be. You meet her needs and she'll love you again...it's science (though I know how fair and unjust it is for YOU to have to go first).

Hope this helps...gotta run.

Mr. Wondering

MIN,

I agree with much advice you are getting here. Detached loving. Let go of her affects on you. Say this: "My happiness does not depend on my spouse." Now go do something that makes YOU happy. Otherwise you will be riding this rollercoaster with her nonstop. I know. On 12/27 my wife was very confident about us, was saying all the right things, then on New Years Eve she wanted to go with OM to the bar at 2am. She didn't. A week later she apologized for that situation. Alcohol played a role in that. Along those lines I might caution you against anything beyond 1 or 2 drinks when you and WW are together. Could lead to bad things quickly. And you need a level head as much as possible. Under the influence once my WW and I had sex and I now refer to that night as "scary" sex because of some things she said. Not good.

Back to my point, her rollercoaster will be going up and down for awhile still and you can choose to ride or not. I think alot of BSs here might reach the same conclusion... The words, actions and efforts of the BS made little difference to the WS or the A. Sure exposure helps but it doesn't immediately end things. And plan A is important but if there wasn't major things wrong before, plan A is about avoiding LBers and treating your WW as you would anyone who is sick or hurt. Care, kindness, helping, etc. View yourself as an angel protecting your family. Because you are right now. The only one who is.

As said above the A will end when it ends. Almost like the BS could have gone away for the time period of the A and come back to find WS ready to be in the marriage as though nothing had changed. I know this sort of goes against Plan A and you need to be resident to keep depositing love units... but again.. detached loving.

Here is the sophisticated approach I have heard on these boards... Plan B your WW, Plan A your W.

Don't forget these analogies. Plan A: Throwing rocks in the river. Many get thrown before any sign of progress is seen.

The email you just got: This is a set back but its just a bump on the road leading to recovery. She says she would LOVE to be a family again but just doesn't know if its possible. Well of course she doesn't because she is seeing OM. When that ends she will see it is possible. SAA will show her a path. MBers will show her a path. Your plan A will show her a path.

These little setbacks are just skirmishes in the war. YOu will lose some battles but still win the war!

MIN....keep battling. I feel like I'm in your shoes too.....but my WW won't even hint at reconciliation, she wants to spend her entire life with OM still. So, look at the bright side, at least you have seen some signs recently. I'm a rookie, but I see that as great news from where I am.

I'm having the same problems trying to plan A (from afar) and not get into these relationship/affair discussions. It is really tough. I'm pretty emotional, as it appears you are. Hang in there....we can do this!

ILA

Great posts Mr. W and BigPicture! MIN, read and reread these posts until they are down in your soul. Good stuff to help you find your way.

Wow... some REALLY good stuff you're getting here MiN!

I'm so sorry for your situation...you are NOT alone!

L2F

Thanks guys....this is all good stuff. The following is the latest email from my WW and she asked me to come over last night so we could talk. Just my opinion only, but she is still in cake eating mode and really has no idea what she wants. She says she knows what she wants, but acts like she doesn't how to get there. Seems fairly simple to me and it starts with actually putting forth some effort. Obviously I am over simplifying considering the fog and emotions. Thanks again for the continued support.

Most recent email from WW:

I would love for us to be able to be a family, but I just don’t know how that will ever happen. If you want to talk at the house or something like that, we can, but I’m not doing this at work.

So did you go?

Yes I went, but we didn't talk. She said our blow up was a result of financial stress and before I went to the house I spreadsheeted our finances out several months and showed her that our finances were actually a lot better than she had thought. After looking at the spreadsheet she agreed and her demeanor changed completely. We just kept things light and actually laughed a little and I left after about an hour.

It's shocking to see how quick peaks can turn into valleys and vice versa regarding her emotions, but from what I am learning this is completely normal.

Yep, unbelievable but completely predictable.

Okay after a decent week of my WW staying away from OM all of it ended last night. OM had been contacting her all weekend telling her how depressed he is because him and his BS are fighting. He told her that his BS drives him crazy always asking where he is going, what he is doing and accusing him of meeting my WW or talking to her on the phone. He is being victimized by his BS because she just won't trust him. I can't imagine why since he is the low life scum of the earth that has cheated on her several times. Now he comes crying the blues to my WW about how depressed he is because he is now having to live with just a few consequences of his actions.

My WW spent a couple of hours on the phone with him last night and their TM'ing sessions have now started up again. She is going to his town next weekend to meet some of her friends, but I am sure they are going to hook up while she is there.

So to summarize, she wants me to help her get over this guy, I continue to Plan A knowing full well I am going to get kicked in the teeth again. We have a pretty decent weekend and now this whole thing is going to start all over again. When is she going to start having some sympathy for her BS and the depression he is going through instead of some guy who has proven to his wife and my WW that he can't be trusted, is a liar, a cheater, a horrible father and someone that doesn't care about anyone except for himself.

I am a strong believer in Karma and if there is any justice Karma will sort all of this out in the most poetic way imaginable. I just don't know how that will be yet.

So off I go to Plan A this week knowing full well she is going to hook up with his disease infested a** this weekend.