RU,

You want a path to recovery, steps to take.

First off, with all due respect to MamaJewel, Plan A and Plan B are very different plans.

Plan A is a plan designed to put the BS in the best light before the WS, and to show the best of the BS to the WS. It is usually put into action when the WS is actively in an affair, and meant to make the WS see the good parts of the BS whenever possible. It can also be used during the recovery process, especially during the withdrawal period of recovery, by the BS so that the returning spouse can begin to view the BS as attractive and endearing again.

Plan B is a plan used when the affair is currently active, and the BS cuts off all communication with the WS in order to break up the affair. It would not be in order in your case.

Some step-by-step plans for you:

1. I would implement a Plan A. Your husband appears to be in withdrawals, and still somehow fantasizes that the OW is somehow better and wonderful. (You get that information from him in how he is answering the ENQ. Please be assured that he is responding this way only to assuage his own guilt, to try to remain somehow faithful to her and keep the affair fantasy alive, and also to keep hurting you because if he does that it keeps him "right" in doing what he did. This will fade, given NC and time. Give it the time, it will pass, hang in there.)

2. Work hard at spending 15 hours together, without pushing about the relationship or affair-talk. This is going to be hard for you, but do it. Make dates together, hire a babysitter if you have to. Go somewhere, even if it is only for a walk in the park, play frisbee, go fishing, whatever. You do not have to spend money, but spend TIME together. THE IMPORTANT THING YOU NEED TO REMEMBER IS THAT THIS IS NOT RELATIONSHIP TALK TIME.

3. I will bump my communications thread for you regarding how to talk with him about the affair. If you want to talk about the affair, you are going to have to make it safe, and make the talks loving and short. No marathons, keep it to one topic, and stay in the rules.

4. Review yourself. Ask yourself some clear questions about what your own contributions were in terms of emotional needs and meeting them were. Since he is reluctant to take the ENQ honestly, then do it for him - take the ENQ yourself and pretend you are him. Start meeting the top ENs as you have identified them, and do the best you can. Don't talk about it, just do it.

5. Read up on love busters. STOP doing those you identify in yourself.

6. Understand this major rule: You control only ONE person in this relationship - YOURSELF. Do that. Focus on what you are doing, every day, and control how you react, how you act, and what you are doing to move the marriage forward that one day. Think about what you say and do before you do it, and ask yourself, "Is this going to move the marriage in a good and strong direction?" before you do it. If the answer is "yes", then go ahead.

7. Know that this recovery process is a roller coaster ride. You will have ups and downs. You did not buy this ticket, but you are on the ride. And know also that even if you decide to divorce, the ride's the same - you will still need to get over the affair, so divorce doesn't make it go away.

8. He will have his days, too. Sometimes, your "real" husband will poke his head out and you will see him. Other times, that "wayward" man will be there. You might want to run, you might want to stay, depending on which guy you're talking to. There's a saying on MB, "Plan A your husband, Plan B the wayward." What that means is that when he is acting like you want him to act, reinforce him with loving actions and loving kindness. When he's acting like a jerk, say nothing, stay calm, and don't feed the fire. No love-busters, nothing.

9. Know that he IS going through his own stages of recovery from the affair, and that it is NOT the same as yours. He will withdraw, and he will feel a certain loyalty at first. Then, he will realize his actions, and guilt will set in. He will break down and come to you in pain and shame. It will happen. Things do change, but the timing is just different. Following the Plan A, no lovebusters, etc., helps you.

10. Continue to spy on him, without letting him know. It is important to be sure that his word is carried out, because it is often the case that they SAY no contact is in place, when they relapse. You should be prepared for some attempts at contact before the real NC takes hold. Watch him, and bust him as necessary. He needs to be watched, because it can be like quitting cigarettes - it's hard to do cold turkey. It's worth watching him. Don't feel guilty for doing this.

11. He needs to turn over all passwords and email information, all cellphone information, and you need to watch his cellphone details as well. He should give this willingly, so you can feel safe. He needs to understand that this is important to you.


I hope this helps. There isn't a cookie-cutter for recovery, but you are at a great place for help.

SB

Thank you to those who tried to help me. I see there are those on every board that just have to kick those that are already down, though.

Guess I don't know what I am looking for.

Before you go, RU, would you please share with us where you felt kicked? I don't see it...and I'd appreciate knowing.

LA

I think she felt hurt by the "I have neither the time nor the patience" statement by FH.

RU,

If you don't like what one poster says, you don't have to leave. Just read everything, and take in what works for you. Know that FH is here to try to help, like everyone else. It is in your interest to read everything, because even if you don't like what you hear, the words might spur your thoughts onto something that works for you.

Right now, you are in a phase that hurts like nothing else. There is a long time in recovery that feels like there is no way that the pain is going to fade, that nothing will make it go away. You feel as though nothing can take your mind off of what has happened, and you don't think you will ever get through the pain and devastation.

You will get through.

I posted some steps to take, and if you start taking them, you will get through.

I also want you to start reading a book that seemed to work for me, that isn't often recommended here, but does show up from time to time. It's called "After the Affair". For some reason, it resonated with me more than "Surviving the Affair".

Also, the Dr. Phil book "Relationship Recovery" was actually pretty good, in that it has some really good and practical activities in it for personal introspection work. You might want to look at it. It helped me focus myself onto things that were more on ME, and not so much on the affair.

Don't leave, don't feel kicked. When you think that others are kicking you, just confront it, say so, and let them know it hurt. Be more proactive here, we can take it. You are here to grow, and we can help you.

Stick around, we will help you through this.

SB

That may be, schoolbus, but WE are not responsible for her "feelings." We are here to try to help DESPITE the feelings, as any Betrayed Spouses know all too well what the "feelings" are like. The fact of the matter is that there ARE "too many" people on the system who are looking for help and that successfully helping someone DOES take a lot of time and patience. In choosing who we help or don't help, we "evaluate" BOTH our own available time and where we think it can best be invested.

I see that she has deleted all her posts. Interesting that she "learned" how to do that and learned how to run away from the "help" that she claimed to want. But it's more likely that she just wanted some people to "empathize" (meaning sympathize and "identify" rather than show empathy) with her and NOT tell her what she might need to do IF her intent was to recover her marriage.

The REALITY is that not one of us is "responsible" for her marriage, her husband's infidelity, or her recovery. We DONATE our time and energy to try to help, knowing full well that in many cases our help will not be "taken."

She had nothing but objections to post to anything anyone suggested, but my post to her "stands." Others can choose to help those who will not help themselves, but I was being quite truthful with her. If SHE doesn't want (it's NOT a case of "ability," it's a case of her choosing to not want to) to address whatever it was in her marriage that her husband PERCEIVED as his lack of fulfilment within their marriage that gave him "justification" to look outside of the marriage, then there is not much that can be done for either BS or WS as long as they choose DENIAL as "all they want to hear."

Perhaps she will come back when she is ready, perhaps not. it IS her marriage and her husband already chose to end the marriage when he engaged in adultery. If she'd like to "blame" me or anyone else on the system for her marriage or her "recovery" falling apart, she can do that....just like her husband "blamed" her for "forcing" him to seek another woman. But it's HER choice, not ours. It IS our time and energy that is GIVEN free of charge (and she did also complain about the cost of counseling as another reason not to seek help). She can choose to take, evaluate, and/or use any help that is offered, but I will not be responsible for her CHOICES, nor should anyone else.

Your encourgement to her is good and praiseworthy. But I don't think she will "listen" to you either. She is either in too much pain right now to "hear" anything but her own thoughts or she is choosing to run away from reality. I don't think she was "gaming the system," but is, sadly, a "case in point" of the devastating effects on a Betrayed Spouse and how everything that a Betrayed Spouse "believed in" winds up being called into question. I think she is in the "deep emotional pit" that all BS's find themselves and does not want to take any of the "ropes" that have been tossed down to her and choose to CLIMB out of the pit with the assistance of those who are holding the ropes firmly for her.

Unfortunate. But not all marriages will survive infidelity, and certainly not if BOTH spouses won't WORK at recovery efforts and make needed changes in themselves.

Thank you to you for "Trying." Keep on doing so, as I know you will. One of the "hardest" lessons for us to learn about trying to help others is that in some cases "you can lead a horse to water but you cannot make him(her) drink."

God bless.

For what it's worth, RU deleted her posts but the help that was offered has helped ME. I wanted to tell ALL who posted here that.

I think probably this is the best assessment of RU's situation:
She is either in too much pain right now to "hear" anything but her own thoughts or she is choosing to run away from reality. I don't think she was "gaming the system," but is, sadly, a "case in point" of the devastating effects on a Betrayed Spouse and how everything that a Betrayed Spouse "believed in" winds up being called into question. I think she is in the "deep emotional pit" that all BS's find themselves

Hopefully after some time away, some BS denial accepted,she will find herself ready for some 'hard truths' and ready to recover her marriage.

Thank you ALL for your honesty on this thread especially, I deeply appreciate your time and input, hopefully she will eventually too.

RU,

All of us BS have been in that deep emotional pit. We have walked through the same agony you are experiencing. We have had the same disbelief, the same deep confusion, the same shock, the same grief and sorrow. You are not alone.

You CAN get through this devastation and reach the other side. It is easier when those who have walked it are by your side. I hope you will return to posting.

FH,

Please help others. The kind of "help" you are offering is helping me very little.

I have been on message boards before...learning how to delete a post doesn't take a Doctorate degree. Anyone who knows how to use a keyboard can manage.

And funny how you "know" so much about my situation. No one here knows the half of it!!! I refrain from giving out too much personal information, as it tends to come back to bite me in the end.

This post will be deleted, but here is it all laid out:

I am a stay at home mother and have ziltch in the way of earning potential at this time.

My husband walked out last November - our marriage was rocky. He began sleeping with OW. He came back in February and I specifically asked about this woman and told him I would understand if something happened while we were apart. He denied it and then went back to her...during a reconciliation attempt. (I have frequented message boards before...and during our separation I posted on a major divorce board about my fears of he and this OW. He made me feel guilty about this from the get-go; even said his OW was mad that I wanted to get checked for STDs because I didn't know when the affair began and whether she could have given him something that he passed to me.)

I have 5 children now with my husband. The major surgery last month I spoke of was a c-section. My husband was having his affair while I was pregnant with our FIFTH child!!! I was working overtime to meet his needs!!! I was lucky enough to find out about the affair just 23 days before my baby's birth...

We are in counseling...and I stated we cannot afford MORE counseling charges. I am seeking "help".

You are right - I am in a pit. I am so sad right now I cannot describe it. I feel that my whole marriage was a sham and I fear the love for my husband is gone. I question whether he ever loved me...or whether he loves me now or is just with me out of some twisted sense of guilt. Some times I hate him, other times I just don't know what I feel.

All I have been asking for is some concrete steps to take. School Bus has given that to me somewhat...but I admit, I don't do well with anything that doesn't have a "set in stone" set of directions and timeline. I have always been like that...and I'm sorry if that "offends" you or makes you feel I truly am not seeking help.

Please feel free to bash me again. I think I am at the bottom and nothing is lower.

Hang in there RU. I'm so sorry that your hubby decided to do this while you were pregnant! But you aren't alone. We have had many others here that went through it and came out with happy marriages.

Will he agree to write a no contact letter to the OW?

Not a problem, RU. I will leave you to those things you want to hear.

But if you think that we "don't understand," the perhaps you don't know us very well either.

If you want to withhold information, just how do you "expect" people to be able to "understand" your situation anyway? Because you've your husband committed adultery? Guess what, THAT "situation" is NOT "unusual" around here and those of us who have faced that situation in our own lives DO "understand."

You have been offered sympathy from many. You have been offered suggestions and advice by several. What you choose to accept is the sympathy. All I am saying is that at some point you need to pick yourself up out of the justifiable "pity party" that resulted from the emotional shock of the betrayal and choose to ACT, to DO something positive that may help you recover your marriage...IF that is what you want to do. If it is not, you also have the option of divorcing and NOT reconciling with your husband.

I sincerely mean this....Good luck with whichever way you choose to proceed.

I would appreciate your editing out my post with my personal information. I do not plan to leave it up forever and would like it to not be quoted in another post on the thread.

I hope you DON'T delete anymore posts, because there are some great people here that can help you that may not see your post for a few days.

I deleted some of my early posts for fear that FWH would come here and see the details I was writing and be mad. I regret deleting them because they were relevant to my journey.



Me, too. I homeschool our 5 children.



My FWH left, came home and "pretended", then left again for her. Now he's home for good. That's a lot of rejection to take, isn't it?



This meeting or lack of meeting needs is really hard to swallow, isn't it?

When I started reading here, it killed me to think that I had to agree that I didn't meet FWH's needs, so he got to have an affair. That's how I saw it at the time. But THAT IS NOT what all the MB stuff means. That is just more pain on top of what we already feel we cannot carry.

However, when we begin to understand HOW emotional needs and our love bank works, we can begin to put some pieces back together. We don't have to say, "Yes, I failed you here, and failed you there." In fact, my FWH says "I" didn't fail as a wife at all. His affair happened because of baggage he carried around from his momma.

But because I now understand the love bank idea and emotional needs and love busters, I CAN SEE where he didn't have needs met. He had A LOT of independent behavior and dishonesty. My top needs include family commitment and openness and honesty. Because he had so much independent behavior, my love bank was always incredibly low (although I didn't see it at the time, because he was very affectionate which did make me feel loved). Because my love bank was so low and because I had 5 young children, I was not always "up for SF". When we had it, it was great...but it was not enough for my FWH who would like it morning, noon, and night. He other needs are admiration and affection, but he often did not "receive" these from me because of the baggage I mentioned earlier. (Don't know if this is making any sense--just trying to explain the love bank idea for you).

What's different now? My FWH now SEES that his independent behavior never filled him up like the world tells you it will. Doing "his own thing" (activities, hobbies, etc) never could give him what I could. Now he WANTS to be home getting the admiration and affection from me. That small key of understanding has unlocked a multitude of doors for us. He meets my needs of opennes and honesty and family commitment and affection, and WOW! I am "in the mood" a whole lot more. When our love banks begin filling up, our romantic love begins to be restored.

THIS DOES NOT EXCUSE HIS AFFAIR. IT DOES NOT JUSTIFY HIS ACTIONS. My needs weren't being filled and I didn't have an affair. No one expects you to take blame for his horrific choices.

BUT TO GET INTO RECOVERY, the love bank is key. Not because we need to go back into the past and decide who failed who. But because we need to look into the present and future and see how we can fall in love again....romantic love...passionate love. We can just love each other with the caring love that is there because we are husband and wife. But do you want more? Do you want to feel romantic and passionate again? Do you want him to feel romantic and passionate again?





I could have written this myself once. I think Imy thread probably says that almost word for word. YOU ARE NOT ALONE HERE.



I wish I could give you a guarantee. We all wish we could give everyone who's been through this a guarantee. All I can do is guarantee that if you follow MBers, you will know that you DID ALL YOU COULD to save your marriage and your fmaily. You will be able to stand before your children and tell them that you fought with every last breath to give them what they deserve...an intact, loving family...a mom and dad who are passionate about each other. You will be able to stand before God and know that you gave it all you had. And God WILL HONOR THAT.




I have no desire to bash you. But I will tell you the truth. And yes, you ARE at the bottom, nothing is lower. So...there's only one way to go! Do you want to stay at the bottom of the pit; or are you ready to begin the move up out of it? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I do whatever I can to help you get there. Sending many hugs to you...{{{{{{{{{{{{{RU}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

RU,

I am so confused here. Why are you concerned about your information. You are totally anonymous here. We have no idea who you are, so even though we may learn the details of your situation, we still don't know who you are. Without these details left on your thread, we will lose track of your story and will be unable to offer you much help. It is easy to get stories confused around here, so we often reread the thread to get a look at where you've been.

It will be VERY difficult to offer help over time if you come in and delete everyting.

Are you concerned about your WH coming here and reading? I had that fear in the beginning.

RU I could've written these words myself: All I have been asking for is some concrete steps to take. School Bus has given that to me somewhat...but I admit, I don't do well with anything that doesn't have a "set in stone" set of directions and timeline.


They are set in stone if you read how to survive an affair. It gives you the info on how to NOT LB, AO, DJ, etc. along with How to Plan A..which is showing your WS that YOU are the better choice and all that goes with that. Plan B is IF the A can't be broken and YOU need to save what love you have left for your WS. All of this info is what the other posters have been trying to give you.

I would have loved to have an outline specifically for me, telling me what to do, when, how, and for how long. BUT when you deal with people (especially alien people-what we call WS that are in fog) that won't work.

Read the articles on this site you can. Order or may be available at your library, Surviving an Affair. Learn all you can about Plan A, implement, ask questions here. We ALL have FELT the PAIN you are in. We want to help.

As I stated before, I have posted on message boards in the past. Granted, I have changed my handle...but I just have no desire to be "found" by my WH and his cohorts.

RU,

I want to share with you that I personally think that infidelity in a M where the family has a larger # of kids than the typical family, esp when the mom has been sahm, is much more painful for the BS. I believe it's because of the level of devotion, sacrifice, and commitment that comes with having more children. Having 6 kids in the 1st 10 yrs of my M left me open to ridicule, remarks, and just plain hostility from people I didn't even know. To have to cope with betrayal from my H on top of it, it pushed me over the edge. What you've said resonates loud and clear with me. I'm glad SMB posted to you, because I'm sure she's experienced the same acute feelings.

With all respect for your privacy, may I ask if your doctor is aware of the added stress you're trying to cope with. What you've experienced is well over the stress threshold. You're going to want to be on your guard to keep from sliding into depression, which can easily become hormone induced.

Also, I had sensed something more in your posts and that's why I recommended journaling. It can help you get in touch with your feelings and get the hurt and anger out.

I hope our fellow MBer's will take into acct your extenuating situation. It is way harder to deal with M problems while getting through the hormonal changes and physical healing as well as the demands of a new person. I remember being glad if I was able to get a shower or out of my pajama's on some days.

It might make some folks angry here, but I think you the first step you should take for your M is focusing on regaining your physical health and strength. Take care of yourself. Focus on the LO. Since $ is tight, utilize the free articles from mb. Do what you feel you have the strength for in regarding the M. If you don't feel up to anything, just do your best to avoid lovebusters.

Get through the pp period. When the hormones level off, you've recovered fully from the surgery, and sleep deprivation isn't the norm, then you'll have a much better state of mind to focus on all of this.

((((hugs))))

Jewel

No, the doctor is not aware. I have been on medications in the past for depression and none of them worked. I already know I've slid into a depressed state...but unsure what to do about it.


That is what the one friend I have told about this stated I should do. But with nursing, that could be 4 to 6 months away. Living in this limbo state is too hard.


Thanks to all for the hugs and such.

RU,

RMJ makes some very good points that I had not considered.

Right now you do need to recover from the post partum phase. And you mentioned you are nursing, so you really need to take good care of yourself or you will have all your nutritional resources depleted. I know, I've been there.

You don't have to make any life altering decisions right this minute.

I really feel for you. I know what it's like to just give birth to baby #5 and still care for the others. I can't imagine dealing with an affair at the same time. I am so sorry you are facing this right now.

Hang in there. Keep posting here. We are here to support you in whatever you decide. For now...eat...sleep...drink lots of water....hold your baby....read to you little ones....cuddle...and cuddle some more. Then eat again.

Take care. You are in my thoughts and prayers.

Yes, Jewel, I heard some of the rudest comments by strangers when they realized, Oh my goodness, she's having her 5TH BABY!!!!! That poor lady. Gee, does anyone think that maybe some of us actually ENJOY OUR CHILDREN!

My rudest comment to date came from a stranger at the grocery store just a few months ago. An older lady saw me buying groceries with my 4 children around me in an obviously pregnant state and said with scorn:

"Don't you think you should stop? Don't you know the world is overpopulated as it is?"

Not so long ago large families were celebrated...now, people look at you as if you are crazy if you give birth to more than one or two.

Why do people have to be so mean???