Thank you Jl, 2Long, Orchid, and F4L,

(2long...thanks for giving me a way to remember which side of the boat is which <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> )

I was just about to change the title of this thread but I think I'll just insert the threadjack subject (Thanks Mark) as a subtitle so we can keep discussing both.

JL, Orchid, F4L......your posts are very much appreciated and actually validates Marks self-admitted threadjack.

Emphasizing IMHO would be one little mindset that could change the entire tone of a concept, post, thread, forum and, quite possibly someone's R and M. It could alter the perception of the person hearing that mindset in many ways.

Just tweaking the "I think" to "My humble opinion is" seems that it might make the receiving person less defensive and more accepting of a new idea that could be helpful.

Again, thank you.

Acie (Thanks for the new spelling, JL)

Frozen....we were simluposting....thanks for your thoughts....now off to change the title.

Acie (I like that!)

I used to try to offer my experience as a FWS to newly arrived BSs. I don't do it now. I think it is kind of pointless really. My situation isn't theirs and many are just in too much pain and I don't want to add to their misery.

My advice to the newly arrived is to read Dr. Harley's books. Read his articles. Make an appointment and call for counseling. Do not bet the future of your marriage on the advice of people hanging out in a discussion forum. Sometimes you do get what you pay for. (This applies to my opinion as well).

Yes the tone of the board appears to have changed, but I think it has to do more with the massive number of postings from a self-elected MB cabal than it does with the postings of the vast majority. Most here are still helpful, civilized, and a credit to their parents for raising them with manners. The others . . . well . . . the ignore feature works wonders.

As a newbie what makes me weary is that it seems that there is a daily occurrence of someone (usually a vet, but also many FWS) that decides to leave out of frustration. I have been getting what I deem as good advice here but more importantly I get that emotional support that only those who have suffered thought it understand (That it be a BS,Ws, FBS or FWS). Sometime we are looking for someone to just tell us that no matter what things will be OK.

I am the only one responsible for the interpretation of what someone suggests. The MB way is a narrow path, but everyone here had their own experience and can bring value in their own way. This includes WS and FWS as they bring insight into the fog. I have found that I get as much help from them as I do from FBS.

What I do with the information I gather here is for me to decide what to do with. If I question what is suggested, It is for me to seek clarification, and then to decide if the information is to be acted upon.

I implore those who are considering leaving to reconsider. We newbies are still in crisis mode and look at you for guidance. The best piece of advice and guidance I got here is when a seasoned vet suggested it was time to call the Harley's. He put his ego aside and directed me to the professionals. It was a turning point in my journey and will always appreciate this person’s help (Which he is still giving now).

JL, 2L, Frozen, F4L, CN...

Thank you. This is what I was hoping for with all my low level inflammatory drivel.

Ace...I really didn't think what I was saying was a different subject at all. I was attempting to get others to think (or at least consider) what the implications of words can be, just like actions which always have consequences. What we have here is unintended consequences that then become the focus with one side defending them and the other side defending against them.

But that, like JL said, is JMHO.

I find it interesting that much of what I said has not gotten me flamed. Perhaps it was the way I said it...(doubt that seriously) or maybe the flamers are busy elsewhere...or maybe if we SHOUTED at each other and called each other names they'd arrive in droves.

I'm late for work...again...

Mark

TMTS,

Didn't mean to slight you, BTW. Just didn't see your post as I was typing while you were uploading...

Mark

Well JL, insists he isn't the *best poster* on the forum and I'll accept that, but I fail to see anyone better.

As some have said, the board cycles up and down, and that is very true. There is one thing that is indisputable as far as I can tell, and that is I don't believe there has ever before been as many threads and posts edited by mods.

I heard a rumor that the last few months of threads were going to be the basis for a screenplay of a movie sequel, "Redacted II - The Battle for Control of the MB Forum"...

Anyway, I've been fortunate not to have been censored(at least as far as I know), but that's a pretty large group. There seems to be a core group that gets redacted quite regularly and I think a little self-reflection might be in order...

Opinions here tend to be strongly-held and everyone has one or two, so some conflict is inevitable, however, fighting is not.

As the laws concerning internet liabilities start to coalesce, posters should be more reflective before hitting the submit button.

From my perspective over 8+ years, the board has changed in one significant way. The constitution of the forum membership must be at least 50-75 percent post-doc psychologists, sociologists as well as some MDs. There is much more insistent diagnosis of psychoses, neuroses and medical ailments(along with suggested treatment/drug options) than I've ever seen before.

The *real* professionals in the above fields would never, ever attempt a diagnosis based on postings in an internet forum. That doesn't seem to stop people here from doing it.

Forget the trolls, substituting "old-timers", "mid-timers" or newbies for true, trained and certified professionals has the greatest potential for heartbreak and/or disaster of anything here. IMHO, of course.

Hey Mark,

You said:


I said:


Now you say:



Is it a TJ (and therefore requiring amends) if no actual TJ occurred?

Or did you perceive that I might be upset that you commandeered the discussion while I was at work and can't post?

Is it a TJ if the discussion is related to the actual subject at hand?

Should I be responsible if I perceive that you did indeed TJ my thread, apologize, and then deny you actually committed that for which you apologized?


Well...I have one thing to say to you, Mark....

|
V


|
V


|
V







...............thanks! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I also agree with this comment.....sorta:


I'm glad for the discussion, too but would hardly use such words to describe your 'non-vebose tack'.


JMVHO.....FWIW (for what it's worth) <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Ace

Heartpain,

Bravo! Well said!

I liked the part about JL, too.

Mark

Thanks, Heartpain,


I appreciate hearing this because it validates what I did when I first registered.....left the forums to seek professional advice. Then we got one of the best MC's and started our true recovery.

When we've had bumps in the road, I've indicated that I had a challenge but would not post about it until after we saw our MC whether it be a few days or even a week. Some posters wondered about that, but your post explains exactly why it's working for us.

While I'm sad for whatever happened with SMB and tst, they are being helped by a real professional in Jennifer HC. My concern is for those who are not able to get into MC for whatever reason.

Again, IMVHO, your post speaks to one of the most important directions we should be steering newbies.....get pro MC or IC help first (if possible) and then vent here for support.

If MC/IC is not possible immediately, read, study, seek everything on this web site before posting your story.

Thanks, HP,

Ace

Hi Ace.

I wonder how many have considered that those who regularly engage in the "War of Words" that you are talking about really don't like it much when someone gives them a little of their own "style" back to them?

I guess one question remains that will sort of always remain: how much "turning the other cheek" simply enables the "other cheek" and other people's "cheeks" to continue getting slapped? When does "silence" connote "consent?" When does Openness and Honesty apply to everyone, especially when they offer up controversial opinions without any underlying explanation of why they hold whatever opinion they want to push on others?

Perhaps it's simply that everyone brings a "set of beliefs" with them to MB and there is no "one set of beliefs" that is applicable to all, nor is there "one set of beliefs" that can get along with all other "sets of beliefs," especially when some bring a "set of beliefs" that they believe "allows" them to attack and post DJ's whenever they feel like it.

The "problem" (i.e. the War of Words you are talking about) perhaps lies in the area where some will simply say "enough is enough" and will, for a while, "give back" a little of the same. It's not to say that such a choice is "right," but it is "human." But since that's a "forced posture," it can't be sustained over time so they "leave" or markedly "reduce" their posting rather than continue to subject theirself to continuing "angst."

MB concepts are not "THE" answer, but they do provide a framework and a plan to "rescue" some from the devastation of a marriage in shambles. They do, hopefully, get people "thinking" about their marriage rather than just blithely hoping that "all will be well." It's pretty rare to have a "positive outcome" in anything if you don't understand the "parts" of and the "dynamics" of what makes "people tick" and what makes a marriage WORK. That's pretty much the idea behind the concept that "if you don't have a target, you are sure to hit it." It actually does take a target (goal) in order to have a "way," a "plan," a "process" that will maximize the possibility of actually hitting the intended target.

EN's by themselves are not the "sole" answer either. What "works" in one marriage does not always mean it will work in another marriage. Neither are EN's the same or in the same order in all marriages. Probably the most "volatile" of the EN's is SF and the needs of each person varies greatly in that area. It was just that sort of thing that really "tripped my trigger" when K started getting attacked for his marriage and for even staying in his marriage because others decided that THEY wouldn't, or couldn't, be in a marriage that wasn't meeting the SF need the way THEY would want it met. It wasn't long after that that he became a target of "why do you even bother to post anyone, you don't have anything of value to say because of state of your marriage."

In my humble opinion, that is part of the "War of Words" problem when members start to "project" their way of doing things as what someone else "must do" rather than explaining why they think it might be important and offer it as something for the recipient to consider and "accept or reject" for themselves depending on their own situation and "where they are in the process" of trying to "fix" their marriage.

Weary? You don't know the half of it. It is my hope that the system authorities will find a way to but some "brakes" on the posting and the "War of Words." I know some of that has been attempted already with some editing, but I'm talking about fundamental "rules" changes that we all "abide by" or don't post.

A diverse "community" is what MB will always be, so I'm hoping it will be like some "community rules" that "enforce" some behavior, just like traffic laws, etc.

I didn't read this post..

but if people are declaring war

I would like to declare war on the term VETS...

and shove it up people's tiny hineys.....

ARKIE^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

What about "oldtimers"??? Some of us ain't that decrepit yet. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

YES!! You are so RIGHT, there...uh....there....uh...star...star*gazer, yeah that's it...and further more..uh...I would say...uhhh.....I forgot. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

Good points, FH. I can't respond yet but will later.

Hi Ark,


When I first registered and saw a callout for an Vet or Pro, I actually thought that there were military veterans or professional counselors assigned to help. I'm with you....it would be nice if we could find a better term for experienced or educated or compassionate (or whatever) MB posters.

Do you have a better word to use? Heartpain said 'old-timers' and 'mid-timers' and 'newbies' but I wonder about them, too. Once again, we get into perceptions......what do we want new or old posters to perceive in the terms we choose to describe them? Or should we assign a term or label at all?

Ace

I don't understand why the term is needed at all...

I think that every one brings value here regardless of what the counter says...

truth is I could have gazillion posts behind my name...and I could have a gazillion post full of crap...right now my numbers are off....

due to the following....

atleast over a hundred of my posts are about what a crack house I think Texas is...

50 deal with pasties...

50 are probably comparing wat justlearning 2long and bobpure to montypython members....

TWO were deleted because of melodylane...and I am still holding a grudge...

five are reminding medc I am NOT NOT NOT NOT a boy....

28 are to mimi telling her to quit being so emotional and to quit slobbering on the screen...

some are calling starfish old...

some are calling oldole2long....

and what about the fact that I can't post ONE post without a million typos leading to a million edits...those edits really skew the numbers....

let not forget to count the multitude of posts to pepperband setting her straight...

and 4,323 NOT telling what the ^^ really mean after ARK^^

so that leaves about may be 5-6 good posts under my belt...

the rest

CRAPPOLA

I did not serve
and I do not treat livestock and puppys and kittens...

I am not a VET....

numbers behind a name..

minutia....it's the words they type...

ARKIE^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^!!!!

Hey, I want a tiny-hiney!

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Because I can't cure the animal kingdom...

and I've never fired a gun...

But I've been dogged about Recovery...and declared war on infidelity...soldiered on, even...

Have no idea for a name but our own...and the word help. Seems to work for me...

LA

No label would be best, but if we must assign labels, allow me 2 offer the following

Since we're not professionals, as HP pointed out:

Less than 2 years on MB: The Unwashed.
More than 2 years on MB: The GREAT Unwashed.

whadaya think? Respond quickly, because basically I'm just dropping in on my way 2 Australia.

-ol' 2long

LA, 'Help' works for me, too! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I'm hurt and a bit jelly. I didn't get honorable mention for any bogus Ark posts.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/teary.gif" alt="" />