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Come on, Garak, they are just fixing past discrimination. Current discrimination is preferrable, you know.
It tastes better! The true test of discrimination is to take a policy, rule or law and reverse it. See if it still seems "equal". For example, start awarding default custody to fathers (mothers who wish to contest must hire expensive lawyers and prove the father unfit). Watch how fast women would complain about that.
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Funny, I did that with my ex. Before she unethically took the kids way, she was whining that I wanted too much visitation time and it wasn't fair. So I offered exactly that - to switch schedules, and she could have what I was asking for.
Needless to say, she immediately declined. Guess she wasn't getting such a bad deal after all!
Maybe that's why when two are splitting something, one does the split, the other chooses which half they want. Keeps 'em both honest!
It is rare for a truly happy woman to try and take a child away from it's father.
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Funny, I did that with my ex. Before she unethically took the kids way, she was whining that I wanted too much visitation time and it wasn't fair. So I offered exactly that - to switch schedules, and she could have what I was asking for.
Needless to say, she immediately declined. Guess she wasn't getting such a bad deal after all! Funny how that works isn't it? Most men don't want child alimony either.
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Garak, how much money to you pony up per month for each of your children?
Me: 56
H: 61
DD: 13 and hormonal
DS: 20
Oldest son died 1994 @ age 8
Happily married 30+ years
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Garak, how much money to you pony up per month for each of your children? I don't have any intention of talking about me. I look at the bigger picture, the US stats as opposed to me, myself and I. I know the tactic though, you would like for this conversation to get away from the reality of anti-male biases in society. Talking about me and my personal life would not do much to advance the conversation at hand. I will tell you that I am happy with a gf who believes in mens rights and that I am also participating in the Marriage Strike.
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I do research. If I don't do my work, it doesn't get done. None is doing my work while I am away from the lab. I never work 4 hours a day- try 10-12 hours a day- make that 8 or 9 if I have to take my child to the doctor's office. If my child is sick- my husband and I take turns staying home-one mornign till mid-afternoon and one from mid afternoon till midnight. I am just as productive as my male counterparts- I have the product- Scientific publications- to show it. I serve on committees, go to scientific meetings, get federal funding, etc. All of these things are quantifiable. I do all of these things just like my male counterparts. And, I have 4 children to take to doctor's appointments, attend school events in the middle of they day, etc. But, I don't get paid as much as my male counterparts.
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How can you explain men being the butt of jokes in commercials and on sitcoms? They don't do that to women!
Sounds like social conditioniing to me.
As for a sociology book, the education establishment is getting good at revising history. Our founding fathers used to be one thing, now they were just terrible white euro males who had disgusting sexual appetites.
Not a lot of truth in school books these days, but plenty of social engineering. ****************************************** I would call it social conditioning. For example: Ever notice how a man getting kicked in the groin (or any type of violence by women) in entertainment is comedy. *************************** I never don't think that's very funny. Never cared for the 3 stooges either. I think the social conditioning is part of the evolving change in society. The pendulum is starting to swing....think about how few rights women have had in this country. Look what they had to go thru just to vote. I am not saying it's all good....but,I don't think it's all bad either. I don't like it...I wish there was a kinder, gentler,more evolved way to achieve equality.
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I do research. If I don't do my work, it doesn't get done. None is doing my work while I am away from the lab. I never work 4 hours a day- try 10-12 hours a day- make that 8 or 9 if I have to take my child to the doctor's office. If my child is sick- my husband and I take turns staying home-one mornign till mid-afternoon and one from mid afternoon till midnight. I am just as productive as my male counterparts- I have the product- Scientific publications- to show it. I serve on committees, go to scientific meetings, get federal funding, etc. All of these things are quantifiable. I do all of these things just like my male counterparts. And, I have 4 children to take to doctor's appointments, attend school events in the middle of they day, etc. But, I don't get paid as much as my male counterparts. I would say your job is not indicative of a typical job. I would also say that since you do still take off for your childrens appointments (as well as your own women do go to the doctor more than men) and your male counterparts do not, that would explain the difference.
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So if I have the same productivity but work a few hours less a month that justifies me being paid less? That is what you are saying?
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Let me put it this way. I don't like affirmative action- I don't agree with it. In the workplace, I don't expect anything for being a woman, I want to be rewarded because I am good at what I do. I compete successfully for grants- federal grant submissions are blinded for gender and race. I believe that minorities or women should not be given a job, a position in med school, scholarships, etc... based on their race or gender but only on their merit. I want to be judged based on my productivity- my merit. But only a fool would believe that their is no discrimination due to race or gender. It exists.
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How can you explain men being the butt of jokes in commercials and on sitcoms? They don't do that to women!
Sounds like social conditioniing to me.
As for a sociology book, the education establishment is getting good at revising history. Our founding fathers used to be one thing, now they were just terrible white euro males who had disgusting sexual appetites.
Not a lot of truth in school books these days, but plenty of social engineering. ****************************************** I would call it social conditioning. For example: Ever notice how a man getting kicked in the groin (or any type of violence by women) in entertainment is comedy. *************************** I never don't think that's very funny. Never cared for the 3 stooges either. I think the social conditioning is part of the evolving change in society. The pendulum is starting to swing....think about how few rights women have had in this country. Look what they had to go thru just to vote. I am not saying it's all good....but,I don't think it's all bad either. I don't like it...I wish there was a kinder, gentler,more evolved way to achieve equality. Yeah and look how long it is taking to require that women register with Selective Service. Don't hear women complaining about inequality there.
Last edited by Garak; 01/18/08 06:43 PM.
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So if I have the same productivity but work a few hours less a month that justifies me being paid less? That is what you are saying? It does if you work on an hourly scale and are NOT just as productive, that would be up to your boss. Do you think that hourly employees should be paid the same even if they aren't at work?
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Well, I am on salary not hourly wages. But, I don't know of any employers who would pay their hourly employees when they are not there- men or women. I certainly do not pay my employees when they are not at work unless they use paid sick time and vacation time- which is equally avaiable to all of them.
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Well, I am on salary not hourly wages. But, I don't know of any employers who would pay their hourly employees when they are not there- men or women. I certainly do not pay my employees when they are not at work unless they use paid sick time and vacation time- which is equally avaiable to all of them. Exactly! When female hourly employees (which is a large percentage) take more time off work for a variety of reasons, they make less over the course of the year. This is not discrimination. Like I said though, I have a solution. Reverse the custody model to default towards fathers. Sound good?
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Garak, not a single woman has jumped on your offer.
I...am...stunned......
It is rare for a truly happy woman to try and take a child away from it's father.
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Garak, not a single woman has jumped on your offer.
I...am...stunned...... I know! You would think with all the whining about fathers not living up to their responsibilities single mothers would be screaming in favor of my proposal. I guess it's like you say SYF, women are getting the better deal and they know it.
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Like I said though, I have a solution. Reverse the custody model to default towards fathers. Sound good?
*********************************
I have an honest question.
Are there really that many fathers out there who are asking for custody?
I don't doubt that the courts favor the mother in most cases....but I would like to understand what the custody model you mentioned would look like.
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Like I said though, I have a solution. Reverse the custody model to default towards fathers. Sound good?
*********************************
I have an honest question.
Are there really that many fathers out there who are asking for custody?
I don't doubt that the courts favor the mother in most cases....but I would like to understand what the custody model you mentioned would look like. Yes, fathers love their children and many are FORCED away from their children (unilateral divorce mostly filed by women). They are then told they should pay for the honor of having their children taken from them. Most fathers would love to have custody. You asked how it would look. It would look exactly the same as things are now except the genders reversed. It would be a mirror image. Most men (because of chivalry) wouldn't accept child alimony though. Also, most men would be more fair with the non custodial parent in regards to visitation.
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You asked how it would look. It would look exactly the same as things are now except the genders reversed. It would be a mirror image.
***********************************
Who would watch the children while the father is at work?
Who would take them to appointments and play dates and practices?
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You asked how it would look. It would look exactly the same as things are now except the genders reversed. It would be a mirror image.
***********************************
Who would watch the children while the father is at work?
Who would take them to appointments and play dates and practices? Who watches the children while mother is at work? Who takes them to appointments and play dates and practices now? You see, fathers would have to work less hours but would be able to do all of these things. It would be a mirror image.
Last edited by Garak; 01/18/08 08:21 PM.
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