Copied my last post from the "Just Found Out" Board - thought it may be better to start posting here since there's more traffic.

Also, here's my original thread from the EN board if you care to read it:

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...e=0#Post3298834

I'm doing the investigation into my H's cellphone behavior and I'm absolutely sick to my stomach. So far, I've recreated the last bill and put it into a quick summary so I have good info to present him with. 750 text messages from him to her. 784 text messages from her to him. 35 phone calls to her and only 3 to him. All in a 31 day period. I also was able to figure out that he's most likely seen her. He lied to me about when a job he was working on started and he stopped in her town on the way there. I can tell by the roaming charges on his phone and by the fact that on the day he would have been there they had no phone or text contact.

I'm absolutely sick. I know this is torture, but I think I need to continue with this so I actually can grasp the depth of deception.

I have a counseling session with Jennifer tomorrow night. I hope I can feel better after I talk to her. I'm just not sure I want this to work out now, though, after seeing these details. I do believe that people should do everything possible to save their Ms, but after all the support I've given him through his depression and joblessness this may be too much to bear. If it was "only" an affair or "only" some lies maybe I'd be able to get past it. After suffering through a devastating year along side him, I can't believe he'd do something like this to me.

Based on the lengths he's gone to to betray our M, I made an appointment with a lawyer for tomorrow. I have no intentions of filing for D at this time, but I do want to know what options I have and what leverage I may be able to use.

KLD,

Wow, the phone bill investigation...does that bring back memories. Highlighting the different phone #s with different colored highlighting pens, (OM's cell, home, and work phone) counting the calls to each and noting the length of the calls.

And the time there were no calls, thinking (knowing) they were together. Then the first call to be made after the phone silence was checking her messages.

One day she called him every couple minutes for like half the day, must have been 50 calls. They must have had a little tiff.

It is torture, but maybe a little therapeutic too. It all comes down to the BS's thirst for knowledge. We must dig out all the facts.

""I can't believe he'd do something like this to me.""

For what it is worth, he is not really doing this to you. He is not purposefully doing this to cause you pain. He is a self centered man selfishly seeking his self-gratification not considering the consequences or maybe considering, but not enough to stop.

I did not go to your previous post, so I do not know if he knows you know.

A good rule to follow is do nothing drastic within the first month after d day. Wait until the dust settles and things become a little bit clearer and calmer.

Stay strong and take care of yourself.

kirk

He doesn't know I know. He knows I know there has been previous contact, but he thinks I believe it's stopped. I'm having a session with Jennifer tomorrow night and hopefully she can help me develop a plan to confront him with my details.

I also found a call to an 800 number sex line. This is a man I'd never ever thought would do something like this at all.

I'm trying very hard to act like normal. It's very difficult, but so far I'm doing okay.

Thanks for the insight - it does help to realize he probably doesn't mean to hurt me. I just don't understand how he can think this won't affect our M, though.

I believe in the spying 101 thread I discussed my DDay back in 2005 when I confronted my wife with the tidbits of information I did have and included the false statement that I was able to obtain a copy of all her and OM's text messages from Verizon wireless.

I did this to overcome the wall of denial I was faced with. Once IT was down the truth came pouring out of her and she told me many details I was not aware of (but she thought I was).

Work for me.

Key is don't give them an opportunity to verify that it's not the truth. This was saved for a face to face discussion with time.

Your mileage may vary.

Mr. Wondering

p.s.- I also used a hidden digital voice recorder to preserve the conversation in case it was latter denied...in court or, if we had divorced, forever. Never underestimate the ability of waywards to rewrite history to their liking even 10 years down the road to your children when they are adults. Document it.

KLD,
I skimmed through your posts on EN board. I can't tell when he had contact in the past with this OW. How long ago did he have contact with her? How does he know her? Have you looked at prior months of cell phone records? I know that with verizon, only a few months are available for viewing on-line.

I guess what I am asking is: How long has he known this OW and how long, potentially, has the A been going on? I understand that there is a difference between long term affairs and shorter term affairs regarding a variety of issues in attempting to obtain no contact and in recovery.

I'm so terribly sorry.

It sounds as though you are making some logical and very wise choices.

Particularly these:

I'm having a session with Jennifer tomorrow night and hopefully she can help me develop a plan to confront him with my details.
I have no intentions of filing for D at this time, but I do want to know what options I have and what leverage I may be able to use.
I know this is torture, but I think I need to continue with this so I actually can grasp the depth of deception.

On the last item, I agree that is a wise choice. Right now you are looking for facts. Once you confront him, most likely the rationalizations and justifications will ensue and it's all too easy to believe some of them in an emotional state because denial can be a convenient anaestethic.



I would guess that he isn't viewing it from this perspective so much as he is from the angle that he won't get caught. Denial can work both ways.

Hey KLD, I'm right there with you... you may have seen my posts about my wife in here. The only difference is she doesn't deny anything.

But what you describe sums me up pretty good. I'm a mess. I can't sleep - I have no apetite... I, too, don't understand how she could do this to me/us. I feel like yesterday's news.

So if you need to vent, I'm all ears, cause I completely understand what you're going through.

KLD,

I went back and also skimmed through your thread.

Your WH is a piece of work. It is almost a form of GASLIGHTING that he has going, only instead of telling you you are crazy for thinking he is having an A, he is misdirecting you TO BECOME crazy, with his hesitating, head hanging and manipulating, WHILE HAVING THE A.

While reading your thread, knowing the outcome, of course, in advance, I was just shaking my head at the way he manipulated you. So much energy waisted!!

I detect a perverse pleasure he gets by making you squirm. So I am re-thinking the "not doing this to cause you pain" remark I made earlier.

What did the PI uncover?

Also a voice activated recorder in his car is helpful to get the gist of the conversations. Also a GPS gizmo to track his movements.

So was he even AT the airport?

When you DO let him know you know, let him have it with BOTH barrels. (but not an actual fire arm of course!)

Stay strong and stay on that high road.

kirk

Mr Wondering - I will use the recorder when I confront. Thanks for the idea. I have no idea if he will admit or not when faced with facts. I won't be surprised if he is so livid that he never speaks to me again.

I have plenty of facts at this point. Just need to get it organized and get myself emotionally ready.

Lake53 -

I skimmed through your posts on EN board. I can't tell when he had contact in the past with this OW. How long ago did he have contact with her? He has known her for 13 years. They were friends before we married and before he knew me. I first found out about secret contact with her almost 3 years ago by accidentally finding it on his cell phone call list. He had lied about who he was talking to. He said he didn't want to get me suspicious because we hadn't been getting along and they were just friends. I let it drop. Soon I found a few calls to her on his cell phone bill. I confronted again and he said he would not contact her any more.

How does he know her? He used to work in an industry where everyone knows everyone. She worked for another industry company and eventually came to work where he did.

Have you looked at prior months of cell phone records? I currently have the prior 7 months downloaded on my work computer. In the next day or so I'll get the 6-7 months prior to that that is available.

I guess what I am asking is: How long has he known this OW and how long, potentially, has the A been going on? I think the A has been going on for about 4-5 months. I think there may have been intermittent EA/possible PA before that.

Because of the length of time they've known each other, I think this one may be a tough nut to crack. I also have talked to her twice - each time was very unpleasant. She is a real jerk.

Frozen - thanks for the words of support. It helps to hear that I'm approaching from a logical position. I'm seeing a lawyer tomorrow to help make sure I don't make any mistakes in how I confront him that would jeopardize my position if it gets legal.

JCricket - I feel for you in your situation. I really hope it all works out for you and your WW. I'm sure your session with Steve will give you some good direction.

Krusht - I appreciate it that you went back and read my history. I guess I haven't seen it the same way you did - even looking back now I don't see it that way. You may be dead on about his manipulation tactics, though. Honestly, he's not that kind of person, but maybe in this situation that trait has come out.

He is self centered - I knew that from the start - though it's not been a problem until recently because he has always shown me love. Even now, he's very attentive, fun, and loving to me when he's not in a depressed state. When I sense the depression coming on (he will become quiet and withdrawn) I will just be patient and it will pass. Then there are the times when he tells me he knows he can't make me happy and wants to separate. I have always told him I don't want to do that, but usually tell him he should make up his mind and let me know what he wants to do. He has always decided to stay.

I'm torn about how I really want this to end. There's part of me that just wants to be done with him and leave him as a sniveling heap on the ground. The other part wants to make sure I don't screw things up in the confrontation and aftermath so the door remains open for reconciliation.

I know it may not seem like it from what I've written, but he is a good guy. Right now he's a lying cheater, but still a basically good guy. I just hope the good guy will come back.

Oh, I forgot to include - the PI found that he was exactly where he said he would be - at the airport for a one day up and back trip. He had an anxiety attack and couldn't get on the plane, though, so he came home. He called me when he was panicking to see if he could calm down and get on the plane. The PI told me he made one call and was on the phone for 25 minutes. That call was to me.

He is supposed to be on another trip tomorrow. The PI will follow him again to see what happens this time. This is supposedly a 3 day trip.

And I'm thinking back on the last few weeks and some of his behavior. He seems to be talking about our future alot and things he wants us to do to the house. Also talked about getting a motorcycle for us to ride on weekends (always had one when he lived in England and has wanted to get one since I've known him just never has).

Is there significance in this, or is it just a smokescreen?

There is also a third option - initially many wayward spouses think they'll enjoy having 2 lives. The WS who eventually get more emotionally involved with the OP, often start judging and treating the unknowing BS harshly.

The 2 lives scenario actually makes sense in his case. He has felt the need to get away several times over tha past year because his depression would get deeper and he would feel pressure from real life. This is how he described it. It kind of makes sense that the OW gives him a second life that doesn't have any responibilities, yet in this case it's someone he knows so there's a comfort level there. Also, she lives 4 hours away - not much chance of us running into her or having to juggle too much to enjoy it.

Just found H's itinerary for the trip he's taking today. He left it for me which he rarely does. The itinerary is just as he said. I may have paid the PI to follow him to do exactly as he told me he was doing. I don't want to find that he's seeing her when he's supposed to be on a work trip, but I wish I wasn't having to fork out all this money to try to catch him so I'll have more than phone record proof.

Does anyone know how to find out where the OP works? I've done 2 background checks and neither had that info. If I knew where she works I could check to see if she's there this week while he's traveling. My PI said it's very difficult to get that kind of info these days.

I found both OW's name and where she worked by Googling her cellphone number which I spotted on a phone record. A single error by WS who had been able to keep all contact off any records for three years. There was even a photo of her ugly fat face. Presume you have tried Googling name/number in various possible formats?

Another possibility is to look carefully at the phone records to see if you can spot a call to or from a number that might be her work number. Calling possibilities will soon get you to the right place. Even the most careful WS usually makes a single error somewhere.

Key logger software is awesome too, I installed Spector Pro which gives me information on every single keystroke he makes on the computer.

I've googled her cell phone number, home number, and various name combinations and got nothing. So far I haven't found any other numbers that could be her work number, but I'm not done going through all the cell phone records. Geez - what a job that is!!! So much communication between them.

I'd love to be able to find out what she looks like. I picture her being a certain way and I'd be really disappointed if she's better looking than me. It's probably better if I don't know.

I can't put a keylogger on his laptop. I never have access to it. I'm out of luck there.