Just talked to Jennifer. It helped me get grounded. She helped me developed a plan for confronting him. I'm going to first write a letter inviting him to participate in a plan to recover. The letter will not say that I know. It will outline the plan which includes ENs met exclusively by each other.

If he rejects this option, then I will tell him that I know and that our options are 1) immediate NC and work on the M when that is accomplished or 2) Plan B.

I am very nervous about this, but I know I can't go on the way things are.

KLD, I just found this thread by accident. I had no idea, I'm so sorry.

I kind of like the 2 lives theory. When my mom was about 50, her long lost love showed up on her doorstep, the guy she didn't marry (and who most likely is my brother's real father, but I digress). He's a doctor, and he said he makes a lot of trips through here, and would love to be able to stop by and see her when he's in town. She was like a little schoolgirl, started wearing dresses (she has really bad psoriasis, so always wears pants) and makeup. Well, of course, about 6 months in, she finds out he's really married; he knew she'd be an easy lay, just like 30 years earlier.

I just tell you this to suggest it may be many men's (or women's, I guess) fantasy, to have that double life.

Anyway, I wish you the best. You seem like a really strong person, and I know you'll pull through, but I wish I could take away the pain for you.

Cat, I so appreciate your note. It means so much that someone from my original thread thought enough of me to post some encouragement.

The story about your mom makes sense. I have to say that a double life sounds good to me right now!!! LOL. I hope that doesn't get the hackles up of other BSs - I don't mean for one second that I'd actually seek out another life.

I'm not quite ready to write my letter yet. I need to get into a better frame of mind to do it. I'm very nervous about giving him the letter because based on past experience with him he will not respond to it. I know that's the same as rejection. If my offer is rejected, I have to confront and I'm not ready for that right now, either.

I fully expect him to reject the offer. Communication about important things - especially difficult subjects - doesn't come easy to him. I believe this could make him decide to just walk away rather than deal with it even if there could be a great outcome if he would engage. He is a major avoider and this shows in many areas of his life.

I know he is carrying on his other activities and that is deceitful and wrong. It hurts me very much that he's doing these things, but he is starting to respond to my changes from the Plan A I was already doing. I haven't put on the perfect Plan A, but there have been significant changes in me and he has commented on them. I hate like the devil to rock the boat even though it most definitely needs rocking. My logical side knows what needs to be done but my sentimental side wants to wait until "just the right time."

And further, I think if I read this post from someone else, I'd want to tell them they have to get their priorities straight. I can't seem to take my own advice. Is this normal? Any tips for pushing myself forward without rushing this and making mistakes?

In my preparation to write my letter, I started thinking that maybe I should lightly address that he has shown his desire to make our M better by making plans for our future, etc. and that makes me want to invite him to take significant steps with me toward making it better. I know I'd have to wordsmith that properly.

At this stage of the plan, I'm not telling him that I know about his A. That will come later either because he rejects my offer or when we begin working on the M and the info comes out.

Has anyone else approached your situation in a similar way? What suggestions would you give me? I'm so out of my element here and I could really use some direction. I have the plan that Jennifer and I developed which I'm comfortable with, but there's so much more to this stuff than having a plan!!!

KLD - I am new to your thread so this may not be any help at this point but if you are able to download the phone records in Excel format (or a format readable by Excel, like CSV or TXT) you could save yourself a lot of time and effort. Excel will allow you to quickly sort/highlight calls on specific dates to/from specific numbers, etc.

TIM

TIM, I have downloaded the last 16 months of phone records into Excel. I'm going through each month one by one to get the magnitude of the contact. I doubt that I'll ever use it, but going through that exercise has opened my eyes and made me see how deep this really is. It hurts alot more, but I may need that to make me take action.

KLD - Apologies for the late arrival to your thread. My d-day was last month so I am far from an expert (my thread is "this sucks" on "just found out") but I can tell you that the advice that I received from the posters on this site made all the difference in my ability to move forward with the very difficult steps that needed to be taken to try to save my marriage and my family.

That said, I "knew" for years that something was very wrong in my M and I tried repeatedly to Plan A (long before I knew about MB) but it was not until I decided to act on my suspicions, discover the truth, and confront my W that anything changed. My approach at the end was to simultaneously end the A and insist on a commitment to work on our M. I am confident that the A is over (though mindful of withdrawal and the possibility of relapse) and my W is now - 5 weeks post-d-day - beginning to demonstrate a willingness to discuss our issues, read books on recovery, etc.

So my advice is end the A as soon as you have the proof that is needed to successfully confront your H. Don't hesitate in the interest of trying to make it less painful for him. Do what you know is right for you and your M.

Good luck.

Hi KLD
This might be a useful tool for you http://www.spoofcard.com to find out where OW works.

For instance, you could text WS spoofing it to be from OW asking him to call her at work urgently. Then check the record to see what number he called. Test it first to see if it works. I have used it but only for voice.

Or get someone to call OW's cellphone during the day and say you csn't hear, it is a bad connection, can she give you a landline to call instead. Spoof a number that she is likely to want to take like the electric company.

TIM, thanks for sharing your story. I've read some of your thread and I'm so happy for you that you've made some progress.

I've been reading other threads for months now and while that helps me learn other things to try, it's discouraging at the same time. When I compare what others say about their WS, the ones who have traits like my WH are the ones who aren't interested in getting into recovery. The Ms with a WS who doesn't communicate easily and won't read books and doesn't usually admit fault are the ones that don't make it. I'm very worried about our ability to recover because of these issues with my WH.

I also realize that I can only control my actions and he is responsible for his. But what that ultimately means is that he controls whether our M survives or not. I can Plan A in a flawless manner, but if he refuses to communicate, won't learn how to make our M work, and won't own up to his portion of the blame we will D. I know there are no guarantees, but this makes it much harder for me to have hope. I need hope. We all need hope.

LTA - I can't view the website from work, so I'll look at it this weekend and see if I can try one of the options you gave me. Thanks for the link. I'm trying to get my ducks in a row for exposure.

I'm still trying to do some forensics on my Hs behavior to make sure I have as much info as I need. I'm in over my head on some of it and I don't know how to figure out what some of the data I have gathered really means.

Can someone please give me ideas on why mail from a credit card bank would come to my house addressed to OW? A letter offering a limit increase for an existing account came just before Christmas. Like an idiot, I asked H if he knew why and he said he had no idea. He asked me where the letter was and I told him I threw it away. I let it drop. The day after Christmas 2 letters - 1 from the original bank and 1 from a different bank - arrived stating that the address on the account had been changed. I didn't mention this to H. I still have all 3 letters.

I've checked his bank account to see if these banks are set up under his bill pay and they're not. I also checked his credit to see if there is a record on his report of either of these banks and nothing is there so he isn't set up in a joint account with her.

I have no idea why her credit card accounts would have our address listed as hers. What else can I do to find out what's going on with this?

It could me OW is married and got herself a credit card and didn't want the statements coming to her home. Who knows?

What do you know about OW? If she is married exposing to her H would be very beneficial.

OW is divorced. She has a child and I'm thinking about exposing to her XH since they have a child. Don't know if it will matter, but worth a try. They have been D about 3-4 years.

I'm trying to find out where she works. They text all day long and I'm thinking that maybe her employer will want to know that she uses their time to play with her friends.

The first thing that I thought of was that he was offering to pay her bill.

That's what I've thought, too, Cat. If that's the case I'm going to be so very angry. There was a time about 5 years ago when he told me that she had asked another guy they worked with for money and he wouldn't give it to her. I told H then that I didn't want him giving a dime to anyone without he and I being on the same page about it. He assured me that would never happen. I've mentioned to him at least 5 times over the past 2 years that I don't want him giving her any money and he always says he hasn't and he won't.

In putting a timeline together so I can have indisputable facts for the confrontation, I've gone back and read my original thread. It's helped that I noted when WH wanted separation and when he decided to leave. Every single time he decided to leave his usual daily communication with OW stopped. They were together then for sure. It is so very painful to read what I wrote then knowing that I trusted him and was worried sick about him and he was screwing OW.

I've also uncovered another probable EA. I haven't been able to confirm that the number belongs to a woman, but I'll eat my hat if he's been sending this many texts to another man. The phone is listed from where he lived before I met him. He mentioned during the summer that he had called his former employer to ask about a reference and he had a chance to talk to a woman who used to work there. Looks like they've been talking quite alot since then. I know he hasn't seen her - she lives 1200 miles away and all his unaccounted for time has now been accounted for with OW1. Wonder if OW1 knows that he's been cheating on her with OW2?

I've been remarkably calm since I found his phone records one week ago today. Very upset, but able to keep my emotions in control.

I'm having a much more difficult time today keeping myself in control. I'm at work and I can't concentrate on anything I need to be doing. I'm worried about a project that I need to complete and I can't even see the plan when I open it up. I can't focus on it at all.

When do you know it's time to get some help with ADs? I feel like I'm on the brink of falling apart but not quite there yet.

KLD - I know what you are going through (I guess unfortunately most of us here do) and it is difficult. Hang in there. In my case, though I had been suspicious for some time and I knew that things in my M were not right, only 2 days elapsed between my decision to act on my suspicions and my confronting W and OM. And those 2 days were terrible.

That is, in part, why I recommend confronting your H as soon as you have sufficient proof. It is very important that you not act too soon (as many other posters here have cautioned) but, on the other hand, there is no benefit to prolonging the agony once proof has been obtained.

As far as productivity at work, prepare yourself for more of the same for some time to come. I am a co-owner of a business and am struggling big-time to keep up since d-day. However, confirming there was an A (thus confirming that I was not the unduly suspicious, controlling, neurotic person my W told me I was) and then ending the A has been a huge relief. Under no circumstances would I want to go back to the state my M was in pre-d-day. No amount of improved productivity would make me willing to do that. Replacing lost income is much easier than losing my W and family.

Re the AD question, I have no experience with them so can't help there. Sorry.

TIM

TIM - I think I'm in for a bit of a wait on confrontation. I anticipate that my WH is going to get extremely angry when I present him with the facts I have. Because of that, I want my case to be air tight without assumptions. I can't give him any wiggle room, so I've got to do all the work to make sure I have enough to ensure he can't reasonably lie his way out.

Thanks for the heads up to expect more of the same with my job. I think I'm going to try to make an appt to speak to my doctor about possibly getting on ADs.