KLD,

I guess if you are considering the ADs then it is time to get them. Once you get them, it will take a week to 10 days for them to kick in. So do that now!

As far as getting all the proof to make it air tight, you don't have to prove that he is having the A. He KNOWS he is having the A. Even if it is not a PA it is totally an EA because of the phone records you have already.

With the PI following him, I would think any other proof would be quick in coming.

""I anticipate that my WH is going to get extremely angry when I present him with the facts I have.""

Why would he get angry? Because you snooped? Down deep in his heart of hearts he must have known that you would find out.

If it was me cheating on my wife, I think I would feel many more emotions before anger, if at all.

YOU ARE THE ONE WHO SHOULD BE ANGRY!!!!

IMHO

kirk

I know you're right, Kirk. I know he is feeling guilty - I see it in many ways. Didn't know what it was until a week ago.

The PI probably may not be able to catch him with her any time soon. She lives about 4 hours away. He goes to work every day so he doesn't have much of a chance to see her. I had the PI follow him 2 days this week because he was going out of town. I wasn't sure he was really going on a business trip. He did go on the business trip, so I got nothing out of my PI dollars. I'm obviously glad he didn't see her, though.

I most likely will have to confront him before PI gets a chance to find anything out.

I made an appt with a doctor to see if he thinks meds would be right for me. I can't get anything sooner than next week, but that's better than mid-February. I think I'm feeling more anxiety right now than anything else. I've been getting sick to my stomach and just feeling very jittery. I hate feeling like this.

I haven't confronted him yet because I don't feel I can do it. I'm just not up to it. I know I have enough info to present to him, but I just can't get the energy, nerve, guts, whatever to do it.

This is not the kind of person I am. I'm angry that this has affected how I feel and how I operate.

The plan that Jennifer and I worked out is to write him a letter asking him to participate in MB process with me. I really don't expect him to agree to it because he hasn't agreed to do much of anything relating to our M for quite some time. I can't even get motivated to write the letter.

When I think about why he is still in the M, I wonder why. We don't have kids, so he's not staying for them. He has tried to leave at least 6 times in the past year and has always decided not to go. He's allowing me to meet a few of his ENs and he seems basically happy at home most of the time. He does drift off into his own thoughts sometimes and he seems withdrawn from time to time, but most of the time we talk and do things together. Maybe it's just easier to stay than to go.

(((KLD))) Good for you for making an appointment to see the doctor. Dr. Harley recommends short term ADs for BSs, in one of the articles. It'm more than most of us could go through wihtout help.

I am so happy to hear that you're working with Jennifer on this, giving your marriage the best chance possible. Don't worry, you've always had the strength to do what it takes so far. I think you'll be able to put a great letter together, too. Is this a Plan B letter?

Why's he in the marriage, because even through all the fog, he knows that you were the best thing that's ever happened to him <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> He's put more questioning into it than most, I'm guessing because of how depression takes away from our ability to appreciate what we have, and even through all that, he's glad to have you!

Thanks for your support yet again, EO. I need it so much now. I feel like I'm really sinking sometimes. I know I need to just hang in there but it gets so difficult. I'm in limbo land still - but this time it's my own making because I haven't made the final decision in how I'm going to confront my H.

The letter is actually an invitation letter. One that will outline in general terms the things I want out of our M and the statement of my belief that we can have those things together. It's an invitation to go through MB programs with Jennifer. I truly doubt that he will accept this offer. If that's the case, I will let him know that I'm aware of his infidelity and that I request that he end it. Jennifer was of the opinion that if he accepts the offer to work on our M through MB, the story of his A will come out that way without a confrontation.

There are times when I would prefer to just confront him without the invitation letter, but I do think I need to do that to give him one more chance to step into the M on his own.

Glad that I can be here, KLD.


Is this projection? It's totally understandable. I had never heard of an invitation before, that sounds like a beautiful idea. If he admits it himself, I would think that would make the healing and recovery process easier, right?

I don't understand, though, why to avoid the confrontation. Is it to prevent making withdrawals when he's been on the edge? Or are you or Jennifer afraid that your H would hurt himself because of the depression? Does he have a history of close calls?

I reread your post, I get you, to give him one more chance to step back into the M on his own. Whew, I was nervous it was the harming himself thing. I had friends in a similar situation, and we were all really nervous when she Plan D'd him, because there was a history of severe breakdowns and psychotic episodes in his family. Fortunately she was right that he could survive it, and he came through okay.

I think my self esteem is so low sometimes that I wonder why he would still be here if he thinks so little of me and our M that he would get involved with someone else. Then I step back and realize that even though I'm responsible for my part of the M, his decisions are his own and likely not to really be about me in this case.

Jennifer agreed that if he could admit the A himself without a confrontation that would be a better situation to be in. I don't really see it happening that way, but I do want to give him the opportunity.

Thank goodness there's no worry about him harming himself. I actually think some of his depression has been related to his A. The guilt and indecision has made everything else much worse. I think it's also part of the reason he won't get in IC and stay there - afraid of having to admit something he doesn't want anyone to know about.

I've slowed the snooping down a bit - it just got to be too much. I haven't had more opportunities to have him followed to get proof positive of a PA. If I didn't know about his daily contact with OW, I'd think he was becoming more commited to me by his actions and attitude at home. He's been fun and more loving than he has been in a year. He was going out alone every night to the coffee shop - a 20 minute deal - and now he's been asking me to go, too. He doesn't go out to the car as often to check his cell phone.

I'd love to think the A is dying down, but I'm sure that's just wishful thinking on my part. I've been doing well at eliminating the LBs and maybe he's noticing that.

Anyway, I had dreams all night long about confronting OW and finding them together and all kinds of terrible drama. I woke up feeling really ill and unsettled because of the dreams. In the early morning hours, he wanted to snuggle up and I had a very hard time feeling comfortable with that after the terrible dreams during the night.

I'm sure these things are normal, but this was the first time I'd had such dreams. I don't even believe that dreams are significant, really, but this did get to me a bit.

Limbo is difficult, but for me right now I think I have to stay here for a little while. I've started my letter and hope to have it ready to send to Jennifer today.

Wow, KLD, it amazes me how much courage it must take to keep doing the next right thing. To keep that great momentum going.

How's your self-care been? What have you been learning about yourself and what you want in this marriage?

Self care is okay - the doctor's appt for possible ADs will be a good thing and hopefully it will help me keep my emotions on an even plane. I'm having some health problems (Crohn's Disease) but I'm in deeper treatment for that than usual so I'll be okay there. I've lost about 20 lbs - some due to the illness and some due to stress. I'm in a size 6-8 now and feel great about that - one good side effect of the stuff going on in my life!!!

I have been on a roller coaster ride about what I want for me and for my M. I do still want the M very much. I love my H deeply and believe it or not, I still have high respect for him. I'm angry at him and very hurt, but I don't regret the decision to marry him. He's a good part of my life even now with all our issues. He may turn into the devil when he finds out I've been "invading his privacy" but we will get through that or we won't. I do know that if this M ends it will be because he chooses that either by active choice to D or by not giving up the A. There is comfort in that for me. I'm very sure that I'm doing the right thing - morally and for myself.

I'm also using the time to dig more deeply into my own behavior and failings in the M. I had begun to make changes 3 years ago and probably didn't keep that momentum up as I should have. I'm looking very hard at myself and I have every intention of owning my part, but not owning the part that belongs to him.

One of the things I'm having trouble with is near hatred of the OW. I wish for bad things to happen to her. I know I should pray for her just like I'm praying for me, my H, and our M but I can't bring myself to do it. I've found out enough about her to know that she is the kind of person I'd never associate with if I knew her in my own daily life. It bothers me that I feel so much venom for her and so much less of that for him. It bothers me that he would get involved with someone like this.

Hi KLD,
It sounds like you are doing fairly well, considering all that has happened. I mean you personally, not your marriage.

I went back and read some of your early threads. I think it may help to revisit some of the things that star*fish said back in Sept on your first thread. I hope you don't mind me commenting.

She encouraged you to live an exciting life and then invite him to join you. (that's what I got from it anyway.)

Sometimes it's difficult to know how to approach a subject. Maybe we can do it like this..........

For the purposes of our discussion, lets pretend that you7r marriage is perfect, and that you are having no problems. Lets also pretend that your H got in an accident and was killed. Please stay with me here, I know this is not pleasant.

If this was to happen, you would grieve, but after a while, I believe you would get over it, and begin to live life again. If you are the person I think you are, you would hold happy memories, and be glad for what you had, but you would get over it, and you would be happy again.

Many people live the grieving stage while their spouse is having an A, and they never come out of it. What we are suggesting, is that you come out of it now, and get back to living a happy, productive life now.

Some will say "well, I don't want to loose him." What they often forget, is that they don't really have anything while their spouse is involved in and A. The question is not will you loose that person, but will you be able to get back to a relationship where both of you gets what you need/want.

It is much easier to get, and keep that good kind of relationship when you are that happy person now, and when he can see that you are. What kind of people do you like to be around? Happy, self confident, self assured people? Or People who don't know who they are, or what they want?

Now, I am not saying you have been failing, but I am suggesting that you make sure you focus. You can only really work on YOU, not on him. You can ENCOURAGE, and you can do things to ATTRACT, but you can't really make him do anything.

With that in mind, focus on the things you can do, not on what you want him to do.

To take this a little further......
I have been married for nearly 31 years. Long enough to know that both parties in a marriage have faults. Of course, any faults you have, are far eclipsed by what he is doing. I don't want you to think I am saying it's your fault he is having an A. Anyway, both have faults. If the problems in the marriage are 99 percent his fault, and 1 percent your fault, all you can do is
1. Leave.
Or
2. Work on your 1 percent.

I am not really trying to assign the percent of fault, as much as I am trying to convey a concept. You are a smart gal, I'm sure you get it.

Now, don't think you should just quit checking on him, and live in your own little world.
What I mean is this:
Do continue to talk, and interact with him.
Do find out what he is doing, so you know how do adjust your plan.

Don't let what he is doing get to you. When we experience the death of a loved one, we adjust, and we can still be happy. Decide how to live your life, and live it, even if he won't join you. Do the things that bring peace to you, and keep doing them.

Don't think you are a failure. All of us have problems in our marriage. At least everyone that I know has had problems. It's part of life.

Don't forget who you are. Look in the mirror. (for real) You really are OK. This is not your fault. Could you have done better? Maybe so, if you had known. The thing is, we can all say that about so many things......... you know what I'm getting at. I believe you have done the best you could with what you knew. We learn, and we change, and hopefully we improve, but all of us make mistakes. Learn, and improve, get better as you go along, and be sure to believe in yourself.

One of the things I'm having trouble with is near hatred of the OW. I wish for bad things to happen to her. I know I should pray for her just like I'm praying for me, my H, and our M but I can't bring myself to do it.

You have things you can work on. God can change all of us. He can help you, and he can help her. Remember that he loves her, and wants her to repent, and be happy. If you can't pray for her, I recommend kneeling down, and praying until you can. It has often worked for me.

May God bless you, and take care of you. I believe he will, if you continue to go to him for help.

SS

Still Seeking - thank you so much for reaching out to me. I think it's a great idea for me to go back and read my earlier post again. I did that about 2 weeks ago, but I think it would be a great help to do it again. I've often thought of Star's post to me and I have done a few things to get me moving in that direction, but not consistently. I've been thinking of the things I need to do to make myself happy with me again.

The scenario of becoming a widow was an excellent reminder of what I need to be doing now. Of course I have issues that must be dealt with now, but that doesn't mean my life must revolve around the fact that my H is having an A. My M may end, but it may not. Either way, I want to be a whole and happy person.

I appreciate that you addressed how I feel about the OW. I know that the horrible feelings I have for her don't hurt her at all - they only hurt me. Though I know God loves her just like he loves me, I don't want to think about that right now. I will pray for myself to be able to pray for her. I do believe that at some point I'll get to forgiveness even for her, but I'm not there yet.

I'm going to read your post again when I'm not sitting next to my H!! I'll be able to concentrate a bit more and soak it in when I'm alone.

Hi KLD...just read your thread...

I like where you're going... I too went back and read my earlier threads the other day (almost 6 months ago) and am amazed at how far I've come, and how much the dust has settled...

The anger at OP has been debilitating for me on many occasions...masking both my own pain and the true target of my anger--WS.

It's ironic, we BSs need to be as "selfish" sometimes as our WSs are...difference is our selfishness is for the purpose of gaining strength for the long and good fight ahead...

Hang in there!

L2F

I re-read SS's post to me and I realize that it really is pretty simple for me. Sure, my circumstances are complicated (as in all A situations), but I can still have a good life. I know that. I sometimes forget it, though, when the pain gets difficult to bear.

I'm sure I'm in for a little bit of a different ride than some because of my approach - not confronting right away and giving him a chance to tell me on his own. I'm not having as hard a time keeping up the front as I thought I would. I don't want it to get too easy, because then I might never move forward if he doesn't tell me about the A, but for now this is working for me. I truly doubt that he will come clean on his own, so I am preparing to eventually confront him.

L2F - Thanks for the encouragement. It helps so much to know that others have been able to come through and be okay. The OW stuff in my head is my biggest stumbling block right now. I want to see her hurt and torn apart like she has done to me. The problem with her is that I don't think she has anything to lose, really. Even if I was the kind of person to try to make trouble for her, I don't think I could. She's pretty much a loser - which I think also bothers me - why would he get involved with someone who has so little to offer when I have so much and have offered it freely?

Just reread my last thread... Calling OW a loser was a pretty big DJ. I definitely need to pray for myself to get rid of these nasty feelings - or at least tame them a bit. Does anyone know why we get angrier at the OP than the WS?

Would it help to think of the fact that she's in an even worse place than you are? She is so desperate/lonely/unloved/screwed up/self-hating that the only way she can approximate happiness is by doing something she most likely loathes, herself. She will never achieve happiness, because she will have this guilt for the rest of her life, what she did to you. You, on the other hand, can walk with your head held high, in all of this, the only person who can do so. A very uplifting feeling indeed, when you think about it.

Thank you, Cat. Once again you've reminded me of what's important. I'd love to call her up and tell her what gutter trash she is, but that wouldn't help anything and probably wouldn't make me feel any better in the long run, either. If she doesn't already know she's gutter trash, she hopefully will realize it one day.

My self esteem needs for me to take the high road. I'm fighting for my M, but I don't have to look like trash along with her in the process.

WHOA NELLIE!!

""She is so desperate/lonely/unloved/screwed up/self-hating that the only way she can approximate happiness is by doing something she most likely loathes, herself. She will never achieve happiness, because she will have this guilt for the rest of her life, what she did to you.""

HA!

In your perfect world, maybe! In reality, not close. There is a good reason why the OP is called pond scum, POS, rat meat, etc, etc.

THEY KNOW THE WS IS MARRIED!! THIS MAKES THEM HAPPY.

There is a reason why the OP is so hated and despised....because they deserve it.

This saintly thinking can hurt you in the long run. This is a war and the OP is the enemy, big time.

IMHO

kirk

Can you expand on this, Kirk? I need to make sure I don't make mistakes. I do realize that the OW is my enemy, but how do I fight her without looking like I should be on Jerry Springer? How can I take the high road and still win the war?

KLD,

How do you fight her?

By plan A'ing your A off.

Confronting your H at some point!!! and exposing to all required to stop the A.

If you are speaking of actually confronting the OW, this usually is not a good idea. The OW could care less.

The reason for my previous post was the heart wrenching description of the OW suffering so.

Made me gag. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

kirk