((((kld))))

i too am sharing your utter sadness in the events of today. i can only imagine the hurt you are feeling.

i have been listening to dr harley's radio show lately and he has commented several times that betrayal of this nature is, in his opinion, worse than rape. even though one might think one is *prepared* for the worst possible, it is so very difficult when actually faced with the reality.

i too was holding on to some type of hope that there was a *reasonable explanation* for his behavior.

i really think cat has a great idea in encouraging you to contact someone close. i am sure your b and sil would want to be there for you. please consider calling them.

please know you are in my thoughts and i am holding you close in my heart.

hugs ....

k,

i hope i am not out of line here but i was just mulling the events of today and wonder if there is any merit for you to continue to wait another week b/f exposing the a? i am concerned with you needing to sit, yet again, another week keeping this all inside you and trying to be *ok*.


will it make a big difference if you expose your knowledge sooner? you can still give him the letter and invite him to join you in working for your m.

i am worried about your mental and physical health as this is such a tremendous stress on you. you have been under this for so long. will it really make a lot of difference, after the events of today?

it seems denial is the typical response of the betray-or regardless what the evidence is.

again hon, i am just concerned about you. i hate to see you carry this burden any longer than need be. i apologize if this is hurtful as it is not my intent.

hugs .....

KLD,

I echo Mrs.N's concerns. Also, I talked about your sitch with my FWH and he also felt that at this point, the sooner you get this out into the light, the better. For you and for him.
Praying,

WH2LE

Mrs_n and WH2LE - I thank you both so much for your concern and your advice. I am considering how to expose and even at this point if I want to remain married. That is a heavy burden for me at the moment because the more I learn the more I feel it would be best to end the M.

Today my PI kept me informed of his movements. He went straight to her house this morning, stayed there for about 4 hours and then the 2 of them went out to a seafood place for lunch. He left me a voicemail that he grabbed a bite at DQ and it made him sick to his stomach. They then went to the place he was supposed to be working. They stayed there for 2 hours and then went back to her place. He sent me text messages saying that this job was alot more difficult than he had expected and that he would be working late into the night to get it done as quickly as he could. The PI reported that he and the OW and her D went to a Mexican restaurant for dinner and then back to her place. Another text saying he was working hard and probably wouldn't be able to call because there isn't a good signal in the plant where he is working. So many lies. I just feel so much more betrayed than I ever thought possible. I'm not sure I can forgive this.

I have talked to my B again. Also have talked to my 3 close girlfriends. They will keep my secret as long as I need them to.

As for the stress of holding this in, I still have questions about being ready for the consequences of revealing what I know. I want to be sure that if this ends in D, that I don't get screwed any more than I have to. So I feel like I have more work to do to protect myself before it gets to D.

I know this is MB - for saving marriages - but I don't know if I want to save mine any more.

I keep seeing people give the advice to secure your finances when going to plan b or D. I saw a new lawyer today who gave me plenty of advice and seemed to be willing to work hard for me, but couldn't help much on how I can secure my finances. What kind of professional is the best to advise me in this area?

My biggest concern is my retirement account. He has taken withdrawals from his and has not contributed as much as I have. So, my account balance is 4-5 times more than his. I absolutely do not want WH and OW to get my hard earned retirement money to spend on themselves. Anyone with experience on the best way to handle this?

I've even considered withdrawing it all and getting the cash and stashing in a safe deposit box. My lawyer said I could get caught with that scheme and it wouldn't look good to a judge. I can't imagine that looks that much worse than a long term adultrous affair... but then that's just me.

As I understand it, you can set up a new 401k and transfer the money, on your own unless you are joint signers on the old one. That may be wrong, but I think that's how it works.

Do you have an accountant/CPA? I'd get one of them to do the work for you.

KLD,
I do not know the laws in your state, but I do know that generally, length of marriage time has something to do with how entitled a spouse is to retirement money also.

Get your own checking, savings, etc. You can do all that fairly quickly. Do you own your own home? Is it in both your names? Change beneficiaries on any items that have him as listed as a beneficiary. Does this help you get started?
Also, consider actual divorce rather than dissolution(no-fault). It takes longer and is more expensive, but will be better for you financially in the end and worse for him.

I am still hoping you will confront him. You can not help but being lose love for him under these circumstances. He is lying and being as disrespectful as he possibly can be. But please remember that an affair THRIVES in secrecy. You may really be shocked at what happens when you bring it into the light.

MOST affairs end, no matter what. They are based on deceit and fantasy. They can not survive once they come into the real world. And the liklihood of your WH and his OW spending your money in retirement is slim to none. Even if they get married, only 3% of affarir marriages last beyond 5 years.

And most painful of all, (I know this because I have considered the possibility so many times myself), You will still have to recover from the pain of being betrayed. Divorce will not make it one bit easier. It will leave you with unresolved issues that are still going to take years to get past.

Have you considered the possibility of confronting him and then going immediately to Plan B? This would give you some time to prepare yourself before beginning a divorce and would let you see what he will really do.

I think your WH would be stunned to see you take the upper hand. For at least the last year he THINKS he has held all the cards and he has been stringing you along in true wayward fashion. When he sees that YOU actually have a say in whether or not this marriage continues and under what circumstances, I think he will be back-peddling in a hurry.
Please believe me that up till now, he BELIEVES that is up to HIM and HIM ALONE as to whether or not there is a marriage with you. CHANGE HIS PERCEPTION OF THAT!! Bring the affair into the light. If he is going to cheat on you and lie to the OW and to whoever else will listen, make him do it openly! Do not let him have the FUN of sneaking around and getting away with his entitled second life anymore. Make it be seen as the ugly, sordid adultery that it is.

I told my FWH that he forgot who I was and that he loved me.
He was blown away when he REMEMBERED. Blown away by the fact that I would actually KICK HIM OUT. I think your FWH has forgotten who you are. He honestly BELIEVES that you DO NOT KNOW what he is doing, that he is smarter than you, and that he is JUSTIFIED doing what he is doing. He is in the fog. Blow the fog horn, turn the lights on!!!

That said, please know that my heart is breaking for you.
I know how hard this is and I know how hard it is to do all these things because I have had to do them myself. But you have support here for WHATEVER you decide to do. Praying.

WH2LE

This was said so much better than I could have, but I wholeheartedly agree. Print it out and carry it with you; read it often; let it give you strength to stay mad at him. So many people here cave at the first sign of regret from their WS, and then lose any momentum, or chance to get it right. Stay strong. And indignant!

I too think WH2LE put it well.

I am so sorry there was a smoking gun. Yes, it was pretty evident there was a PA. But when he said he was 100% committed to your marriage, I had hoped he would give it up on his own. That even this visit might only be an hour, long enough to tell her so.

If it was that way to me, an outsider, I can only imagine what kind of hopes you may have had, even having all of the evidence from the past.

I can only say how sorry I am. Big hugs.

I definitely do have plans to confront him - I will not let this go indefinitely. I can't.

I do have some things that I need to do before I let him know that I know. I want to make sure that everything I can do to protect my finances is done. I'm planning to see a financial advisor next week to see if there's anything at all I can do about my 401K. I can deal with the other things, but my 401K is significant and his is not. I'd lose quite alot if we have to split that. Most of my balance was acquired during our M, so it would be considered marital assets.

He is going out of town next week for his first week of work at his new job. This will give me time to get my act together in his absence and then I can tell him what I know when he returns. I don't really want to confront him before he goes - for some reason that seems like a bad idea to me on many levels.

I have found out much more info today that there is even more deceit. There are more layers to this story than I could ever have imagined. I can't process it all. I don't think I can be prepared to confront him this weekend and do it the way that it needs to be done.

The idea of going straight to plan b is one I'm going to consider. It may be what I need to do to give this M a chance. Right now I'm not sure that I should have ever trusted him - even from the start.

Maybe if you posted the additional info we could help you process it.

Perhaps since you and WS had separate accounts for your IRA's, you might be able to keep yours if you can prove WS made the withdrawls on his. Also if you could prove that marital money has been spent on the A. I don't know what the laws are for your state.

Get your ducks lined up. All I can say is you have much more control than I did on DD, so to speak. Of course, I really had no clue.

((((((Hugs)))))KLD, you are truly being as wise as a snake and as innocent as a dove. Looks like you have a good PI. And of course we all know how painful this information has been for you. Anyway, I know you are hurting, and just want you to know you are WORTHY.

I don't know your whole story, only from this thread. You are one awesome and strong woman!! Sounds like you are keeping a healthy perspective on all of this.

Love in Christ,
Miss M

KLD, just wanted to pop in and give you hug. (((KLD)))

KLD,
I posted to you early in this thread on Gen Questions,
You have shown amazing self control and great planning. I at first wanted to encourage you to expose more quickly with the evidence you had at hand. Then I realized from some of your statements that you knew your H and that you intuitively knew that you needed better evidence. I will be thinking of you and I encourage you to continue to secure your finances. Consider interviewing another attorney even though the first one seemed to be willing to work for you. It does not hurt to get another opinion. Maybe your financial planner could suggest another attorney. Also, women's advocacy groups sometimes have good lists of killer attorneys.

My best to you.

KLD,
I am asking this only because if I was sitting face to face with you it would seem the next logical question in the conversation.(And it would be SO nice to be able to support you over a nice cup of Earl Gray instead of via a computer screen!!) Why do you think it would be wrong on several levels to wait till after his trip for his new job? I agree with lake53 that your knowledge of your H and your intuition is absolutely the best thing to go with. My ONLY concern is that without HIM knowing that YOU know, the A certainly continues unabated and you deal with knowing ABSOLUTELY that they are in contact, hence building more and deeper resentment within you. This DOES make it harder to begin recovery.

I wonder if in your state there is a provision for legal annulment in a case like yours. The condition might be considered fraud. I am thinking of your statement about wondering if you should have ever married him.

Also, remember that if you get a divorce(vs. dissolution), you will have MANY grounds and that those will conribute to your getting the fair deal financially. Please take all the advice given by lake regarding talking to attornies. I have seen many women who "just want to get it over with" and make serious mistakes regarding lawyers.

And last but not least, there are wonderful success stories on this forum about recovered marriages. Some of those couples were in the most terrible of straits and somehow managed to achieve what we all want. I am still praying that for you. PLEASE take care of yourself. Don't forget to eat. Call your friends and don't worry about being a burden to them. I am sure that you have carried a few burdens for them before and they are happy to help you carry yours.

Praying,
WH2LE

The current affair with OW#1 has been going on for possibly as long as 4-5 years. He has a key to her house and comes and goes like he does in our home. He plays with her young daughter in the yard like he would with a child we had (if we had any).

Today a piece of mail came to him containing very explicit sexual content. So, apparently he is involved in porn. I knew he had been calling sex lines, but it must go deeper if he's receiving mail at home.

There is possibly a third OW.

I realize that others have recovered from terrible situations that are probably more difficult than mine. I know his personality is that he runs from difficulties and in the past has been willing to give up rather than work for something he may want. I have serious doubts that he will be willing to work toward recovery because he won't be willing to be transparent and put forth the effort.

I do feel I need to wait for confrontation until I've got a handle on my finances. I'm the one who has been steady and stable in saving for retirement. I'm willing to stand the stress for a while longer to ensure I do all I can to protect what I've worked so hard for.

I do plan to give him the opportunity to choose our M, but before I share my info I want to be prepared in case he decides to walk.

Since this has been going on so long, I doubt that another week or 2 of involvement will make that much difference. My resentment is pretty high now and has been growing quickly before I even knew of the A. I think that making sure I'm protected as much as I can be will help rather than hurt.

Thanks so much to each of you for your advice, hugs, prayers, and good thoughts. It means more than I can say. I do take your posts to heart and each of you has given me so much to think about and consider.

It seems as if I'm fence sitting, but I'm getting closer to being able to move forward with a plan to tell him what I know and give him his options.

WH2LE - The main reasons I feel it would be best to wait until after his trip next week to confront him are:

1. I think I need the time to finish up my preparations.
2. I need the time to be alone and be sure of how I want to handle the confrontation.
3. I want him to be able to have a good start to this job. This may seem strange, but I don't wish him even more trouble in his career.
4. I want the Lexapro I started last week to have a good chance to get into my system so I'm as emotionally stable as possible so I don't screw it up by getting too upset to handle it the way I want. I have a history of getting upset and not saying what I want to say the way I want to say it.
5. I don't want to have a confrontation before he leaves town for a week. His past behavior says that he disconnects even more from me and connects more with her when he has had issues with me. If there's any chance for our survival, this doesn't seem to be a good move.

Thanks for questioning me on this. I needed to verbalize my thoughts.

I'm in counseling and I know I'll get these things worked out in my mind eventually, but I wonder what some of you have to say about these things.

I feel like a huge fool. I know that people I've met must know that he's been screwing around on me for years. I am embarrassed about his decision to cheat on me.

I know enough about OW to know that she is basically a loser and almost completely opposite of me in most every way. I hope I don't offend anyone when I state these things... Lives in a trailer next to a landfill, never married the father of her kids, very ordinary looking and not stylish , not educated, no job, allows him to stay at her house with her kids there. I've heard her speak before and she uses terrible grammar. She's basically a redneck. Why would he get involved with someone like her?

YOU ARE NOT A FOOL!!!! You are a loving, trusting, capable woman who has done EVERYTHING right!!! Look in the mirror and tell yourself that right now.

HE is the fool.
He is a serial cheater. There are many people on here who have been involved with serial cheaters and can give you excellent advice. if he is truly a serial cheater then he is a very accomplished liar. It is basically WHAT he DOES. Lies. His whole life is based on it.

Keep doing what you are doing. You are fabulous and strong!!!

Praying
WH2LE

hi kld,

please do not think that you are a fool. how could you have known? you have been standing by this guys side, living up to the vows you and he made. he is the one who is a fool .... i could write something else but it would only be a dj

as to why he would be involved with this ow. is there any chance the kid is his? could that be the hold she has?

i am feeling your strength in your post's today. i am happy that you are doing so well but please take care of yourself and get your rest and eat so you do not get sick. you amaze me with your ability to handle this as you are doing.

since you are planning for the future ... are there any items of value you have that you might want to put out of sight? i am thinking of small stuff such as crystal, coin collections, art pieces - something that if it were to disappear he might not notice? reason i am suggesting this is cuz my sis had some antique crystal wine glasses a dear friend of our grandmother's had given to her. when she split up with her ex he had along the way taken them and she did not realize it until much later ..... and he never would give them back to her just for spite. look around and maybe put some stuff in storage.

do you think he will put up a big fight if you go the d route? i think it would be wise to consult another attorney just to get another perspective on the best way to protect yourself.

since it is tax time maybe you can get copies of his current 1099 and banking data. i always thought it is suggested to get copies of all his assets so he can not hide property if things get to court.

you are in my thoughts. wishing you continued strength and courage in the days ahead.

hugs ....