If you helped him pay for any of those "work" trips where he met with OW#1 (or #2? Losing track), I would start gathering receipts to ask for compensation. Or if you wrote a check for $xyz and have a copy (or bank record), demand that money back.

KLD,
Ditto on Valentine's advice. Also, have as clear a timeine as possible of his activites,both A and job related, as you can, to show the lawyer. It is evidence of his spending habits and use of marital assets to fund his secret life.

As for the OW. It is so common as to be universal that WS "trade down". My husband and I both have college degrees, own a home, have professional, public jobs(not much money though). The OW quit school in the 6th grade, lives with her son, doesn't speak English(really!!! and my FWH doesn't speak her language), did not marry the father of her first 2 sons(I suspect he was married too), had an affair with a married man that gave her a 3rd child, married a 3rd man who gave her a 4th child, divorced him( I think he abused her) and then cheated with my H.

My H said he felt like a hero to her(never mind that I told him ALL the time how much I admired him and that he was MY hero!). Sigh! It seems to be the way with WHs.

How are you today? I am praying for clarity of mind and spirit for you. You have a difficult and tumultuous situation and you are not alone.

WH2LE

Thank you guys so much for lifting me up again. I feel so violated and used and well... I know you all know exactly how I feel. I'm so sorry you feel this way, too, because it truly bites.

I'm so glad to know that my WH isn't the only one who would choose to "trade down." I'm no beauty queen, but I'm not a bad looking woman, really. I definitely look better now than when we got married. I also know that looks aren't usually the biggest deal, but I'm a nice person, too. He used to think I was so funny until he started hanging out with her. I don't understand how I went from being so great to so sucky...

I'm having good moments and difficult ones today. He came home today and should be there when I get home from work. He called to let me know he was driving home and I had a very hard time being decent to him. The PI called about 2 hours before he did to tell me she had more video of him leaving her house this morning with her and them having breakfast together.

I talked to another lawyer today on the phone. I have a meeting with him on Monday. I felt more comfortable with his approach than the other 2 I spoke to. He advised me to wait to confront WH until I meet with him. He told me that from a legal standpoint that he could advise me on how to do that even if my goal was to save the M. He also told me that he could help advise me on steps to take for staying M or for going for D. He told me that he had often worked with people to stay M and that was so different than the other 2 I spoke with. He was familiar with MB and said he supports the principles.

Also, I made an appt with my GYN to go through STD testing. I'm so hurt that my WH has put me in a position to have to do this. I felt pretty down after I made that appointment.

I'm also thinking about mrs_n's suggestion to put some of my valuable things away in a safe place. I don't think he would take them, but I thought he wouldn't screw other women, either. If we do work things out, I can bring the things back home - no harm done.

Jeez, I hate this.

{{{KLD}}}

hey hon, of course you hate this. but you have to protect yourself. again i am so inspired by your strength you have found in not letting him know that you know. i have done that on am much smaller scale than what you are experiencing and it was draining.

plan for the best but prepare so the worst. since you have been so c,c & c thus far you can continue to be best prepared for many scenarios. if it comes to splitting up we can never know weird things might get.

i broke up with a guy years ago. i had bought a set of antique asian stack tables - because HE liked them. he was out of work so i paid for them. they were not a gift. when we were breaking up we fought like insane animals over these stupid tables. i had taken them to my mom's because they were becoming a topic of conflict. at the time i was so glad because as nasty as we both became he would have ended up with them.

they are still at my mom's cuz i really did not care so much about the tables but in the depths of all the hurt and fighting i did at the time.

this guy was a long distance lover who i learned had a live in love in his own home!!! no wonder he never wanted me to travel to his house - we always met in my state or some romantic place on the road.

i like what the recent lawyer seemed to present. it is so good that you continued looking for the best fit.

i was thinking about the std issues. isn't this just too much to get your head around??? i felt the same way with long distance guy. how arrogant and reckless of them to put another they claim to care about in a position like this.

think of yourself as the best award winning actress and go into acting mode when he gets home this evening. at this point you can only benefit your self
as you continue to position your self.

could you plan a trip to visit a friend or parent's over the weekend? this way you do not have to look at him or be around him. even if you tell him you are going to visit someone you could always just check into a nice hotel near by and have some quiet time and room service for yourself.

you are amazing. wishing you all the best.

hugs ....

Wow, KLD, your strength and proactiveness really amaze me. Thank you so much for taking care of yourself in these ways.

(((KLD)))

Well, I didn't do so well tonight when I saw WH. If he had called today like he said he would, I think I would have been able to hold it together. He didn't call to let me know what he was doing and that just made me so mad. I can't explain why, because I knew for sure he was lying about the whole deal. It brought back such vivid bad memories from the summer when he would disappear and not make contact with me.

I told him I was upset about that and he gave the big lie that he didn't have a signal way out in the plant he was working in. I knew he was with OW almost the whole day. I couldn't hold back the emotion. I told him how much this reminded me of previous events and I didn't like it that he got so defensive instead of understanding the triggers to the other fairly recent events. He said he understands but that I need to get past all that. I reminded him that he told me last week that he values our M and this didn't make me feel like his actions matched his words. He said he thought he'd been doing everything I wanted him to do and that he was being a great H to me. I was almost speechless when he came out with that.

I didn't let him know that I know anything else - I probably screwed up for getting upset at all, but I also finally just said I must have blown this out of proportion based on my insecurities from his previous behavior. This may have tipped him off that I'm on to at least something, but maybe not. I only have a few more days to get through so maybe it will be okay. I definitely want to confront him next weekend.

I actually gave him the perfect opportunity to come clean and he didn't take that chance he was offered. I couldn't believe he looked me straight in the eyes and lied. I felt like I have zero value to him. I asked him if he truly wants the M and he said he absolutely does. I don't get it.

KLD,
Mr. Wondering posted this on eyeofthestorm's thread at the top of this forum(GQII). Thought it sounded like information that you could use!


"Mr. Wondering

p.s.- In Michigan and many states money spent (or debt incurred) by a spouse in furtherance of adultery is often held specifically against such spouses property award...even if the law doesn't say so specifically. The judge just weighes it into his/her calculations. "


Thank you Mr. Wondering, I hope you don't mind the quote.

Praying,
WH2LE

Thanks, WH2LE. I'm going to try to get as much of that as I can. I hope I can find all his bank records next week when he is gone. I'm not above having my lawyer get a subpeona (sp?) and a forensic accountant at this point. We don't have tons of money and I actually imagine my lawyer will tell me it's not worth the effort, but I can at least try to get the documents and then fantasize....

KLD,
We must have been posting at the same time. I am so sorry to read about your WH's behavior and blatant lying. You did GREAT!! Please believe that he has no idea that you know anything at all. He is so deep in the fog of his deception that he thinks he is the Master of his Universe. Able to satisfy mutiple women and keep it all running smoothly. He believes his own lies. Gag! He is in for the shock of his life in about a week.

I am even wondering if OW realizes that he is actually married to you still. Nothing would surprise me and unfortunately I think nothing would surprise you.

I am so sorry for your pain. I wish there were better words to express the feeling of empathy I am having for you.

Praying,
WH2LE

You were so brave. So much more so than I could have been.
Will it help you to deal with him to keep reminding yourself that this isn't the man you fell in love with? It's a man in a fog, a high? I kind of equate it with one of those movies where a guy is possessed by some alien and he sees himself moving and doing things the alien wants, but can do nothing about it.

hi k,

i actually think you did GREAT!! it probably made him feel even more smug and great in that he is doing such a fantastic job getting away with his crap.

since you had this little tiff perhaps you can use it to explain your *mood* over the w/e if you have trouble being around him. you can use the *oh, it is just me darling, nothing you did .... i know you have been trying SO HARD to do every thing i want .... mmmm maybe it's just hormones* - 'nother gag!

this would be a great time to use that pathetic excuse we women often get tossed in our face when we are having a bad day

just remember - YOU ARE AMAZING! YOU ARE STRONG AND BEAUTIFUL!

WH2LE, Cat, mrs_n, EO -

Your support and words of encouragement amaze me and I'm so thankful for each of you. I was feeling like I absolutely blew it last night by allowing myself to get so emotional. I allowed him to see that I'm still so hurt by his previous actions and that has been one of his gripes about me - that I can't get past stuff and move on. What I can't get him to understand is that not dealing with it and just moving on doesn't make me feel like we're past it. He is expecting me to do something he wouldn't do - because he is an alien inhabiting the body of the man I married.

I woke up this morning with the thought that it really doesn't matter if he stays mad at me or not right now. He's going to be so mad when I let him know that I know that this anger will seem like butterfly kisses.

I have made the decision (right or wrong) to not present him with a loving invitation letter as suggested by Jennifer. He has had 2 opportunities in comfortable situations to come clean and he chose to continue the lies and then go spend 3 days with his OW. I could not give him a letter such as this with a loving and sincere heart at this time and I'm not going to be deceitful even if my motivation would be completely opposite of his motivation for his own deceit.

I will confront him with what I know based on the advice I get from my lawyer next week.

KLD, thanks for the update. I am so glad that you have friends here to talk to in such a tough time.

I can totally understand why you feel like an invitation is not the attractive option that it was. I am glad that you found out so much now, because I see folks on the In Recovery board who find things in dribs and drabs and it sounds so painful, that way, too. I am glad that you were able to find the information that you needed now when you need it, so you can protect yourself financially.

I know it would've been even better to know last year, but I do think that sometimes there are reasons that we don't know about for the timing. Maybe it will become more clear to you with time why it was right to know now.

((((KLD))))

KLD,
It probably works to your benefit that he thinks you're just being your "emotional" self and are unable to "let go of the past". This way you KNOW that he has no idea what you are doing. It is going to make your exposure to him VERY effective.

Also, please understand that it really is NOT one of his gripes that you can't "let go". That's gaslighting . He is trying to make you feel like you are crazy for doubting him. That way he can continue to play the cheating game without unnecessary interference by you. He DOESN'T want you to just move on. That is merely a smokescreen. He just doesn't want you to TALK about it. He has things to do and women to see and he wishes you would just get out of his way and stop trying to bring him down. He is probably amazed at himself that he is so able to control his situation. But YOU know that he is in control of NOTHING. You know his story, his game and are going to make the next moves. We all hope of course that the alien will immediately leave his body at that point and that there will be a chance for recovery.

Everything that everyone is telling you is true. You are brave and strong and in the end you will be OK. My prayer is that he will be Ok too.

Praying,

WH2LE

Awwww...poor baby! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Good to hear you've reached that point. It is important and healthy. One thing this made me think of, though. I think it would help you to practice the disclosure ahead of time, with someone's help, if possible. I've found that when one has already run through all the possible scenarios in a bad situation, they're less likely to be 'knocked down' or to lose control of the situation. You know he'll be shocked, but what will he do then? He may break down and cry, he may lie, he may try to turn it back on you, he may try to candycoat it, and he will most surely try to make you think that it's not as bad as you say it is, all forms of a sick self-preservation. So practicing what you'd say in each of these situations will help you not flounder when it happens, and you need to be as calm and strong as possible. Please consider it.

My acting skills are flagging a little tonight. I'm so down about it all. I know I'm doing the right thing and today I took some steps toward protecting myself further. I got a safety deposit box to keep my evidence and stash some cash in.

Last night he was mad at me, so there was no big deal about affection or anything. I took an Ambien at 9PM, said I was tired and went to bed.

My PI told me today that under no circumstances am I to have sex with him because under GA law that would count as forgiveness. Also, I definitely am not interested in that again until we're in recovery and both have clean health records.

He had been in the shower when I got home from work and stood there naked to talk to me - I couldn't look at his naked body. He tried to give me a passionate kiss when we were leaving to go out for dinner and I felt so repulsed. Just knowing that he has done these same things - and so very recently - with OW just really affected me more than I expected.

Cat - great idea to practice what I'll say to him along with options for possible responses from him. I have several friends who will be great at helping me do this. Thanks for the suggestion.

WH went out to get some dessert from the grocery (and of course to call his OW). While he was gone, I decided to check a computer bag he'd just started using again. In an obscure pocket I found OWs expired drivers license.

Why in the crap would he have that? I've sent her DL# to my PI to see if she can find anything else out about her.

I took the license and am trying to think of a place to hide it until I can get it put into my safe deposit box. It may be a bad idea to keep it... what do you guys think about that? Is the number all I really need and the fact that I found it in his stuff good enough?

KLD,
He probably has her license just to keep a picture of her.

I'm not sure it would be wise to keep it. How about making a color copy of it,front and back? Put the date, time and place you found it on the copy page.

Also, if it is gone for any amount of time, he might get suspicous that you know something.

Praying for you,
WH2LE

Yeah, I'd copy it, too, and put it back. And keep snooping.