Just got call from PI - unbelievable info was available at courthouse. She's been sued about 4 times for not paying bills. Her trailer was foreclosed on but she worked something out and is still paying for it now. Married 4 times - the last time she was only married for 2 months.

Small town courthouse allowed PI to make copies of everything and PI said that some of the stuff really shouldn't have even been there. So, I should have lots of info on her - not that it will help, but who knows.

This woman is in terrible shape financially right now and apparently has been for all of her adult life. I'm sure she believes WH is her key to getting out of it. Her whole life is a mess and has been a mess for quite a long time. If he were to choose to stay involved with her over working our M out, I'd say to have at it. What kind of idiot would choose Jerry Springer stuff over a stable and loving M? (DJ - I know)

Seriously, I just told a friend about the latest info on OW and she raised concerns that I hadn't thought of. Could this woman be desperate enough to do something drastic to keep WH involved? If so, what can I do to protect myself? I have no idea what she could do, but then I've never been in this kind of situation before at all.

I don't know why I keep searching for stuff, but just checked his business email account (not the email for his job, the one he set up for the business he started a year ago) - guessed his password by luck. He is using it for online dating accounts he has. It was one of those gut feelings that maybe I could find something I could use in that email account. I can't see one of the websites because it's blocked by our mail marshal (must be a hum-dinger of a singles site). But I guessed his password for the other site I could get into and his profile says he's divorced. His profile is only 10% completed and was done in mid-December (I think). It doesn't look like he's looking at it regularly, but who knows...

I'm tempted to actually post his picture in there. He doesn't have a picture posted.

Geez, there's just so much going on here that my head is spinning. Have people really been able to recover from this much before? It's not like it's just one woman he can't let go of, he's involved in lots of stuff on lots of levels.

I have to agree, KLD. The more you find out about, the more complex his problem is. And the harder it would be for him to come clean and change his ways. At least that's the way I see it. But only you know if there's something worth salvaging. I guess the one sticking point I have is that there is SO MUCH lying/deceit going on, that it appears to me to be his whole way of life - being deceitful. I just don't know that I would ever trust someone who goes to those extremes to fully break free of it. Lying is not usually taken on, later in life; it's usually ingrained in you from childhood.

I'm sorry to be so dismal but your H scares me. Scares me in terms of him ever being able to give all that up.

But who knows? Maybe you really are the love of his life and he's just taking you for granted because you're too nice, and the threat of losing you will make him willing to chuck his secret identity; i.e., it may just be a temporary illness, so to speak, an addiction that just got more and more complicated.

He has never lied to me about anything (that I found out about) before about a year and a half ago. We had problems about 3.5 years ago, but he didn't lie about things then. He's fudged a little on a few minor things - just like most of us do from time to time - but nothing major or more than merely annoying.

Do people go off the deep end and do stuff like this or are they really basically bad people all along and can't cover it up any more?

KLD,

It is doubtful that your WH will ever change his ways.

If it were me, I'd go directly to Plan D.

But, it's not me.

If you want to, give him a chance to come clean w/ you.

See if he is willing to do what you want him to.

Then decide what you want to do next.

~ Marsh

PS: When Strivin4better found her WH's on-line dating site, she changed his password to IAMALOSER.

I love the changing the password. My friends suggested I post a picture of us together on his site. If I get the guts I may do that. They also want to set up an account with the low expectation qualities he's gravitating to these days and send him an email to see what he says. I wouldn't be surprised if they do it!!

What is his first W's opinion of him?

Is he close to his family?

Does he have any friends?

~ Marsh

I don't know what his first W's opinion of him is. I've never met her. She D'd him and left the country to live with her affair partner before I ever met him.

He is not really all that close to his family. They live in England - we live in US. He talks to his mom every week. His parents D's when he was a teen due to his mom's A and that really affected him. He loves his sister very much, but they don't talk very much. I think they were close growing up, but their family in general never discussed anything important. He rarely talks to his dad who is re-married. I think he loves his family very much, but just doesn't keep in touch with them as he should.

His friends tend to be more acquaintances than real friends, though these people are somewhere between those two extremes. He got very attached to my dad and they played golf together alot until about a year and a half ago when all these issues started. We have a few couples that we do things with and that's always fun and fine.

Personally, I'd probably call and have a chat with his XWife.

I would be willing to bet you get the opposite story from her. It may likely have been HIS cheating that broke up their marriage.

I would seriously question ANYTHING he had previously told me.

I think you are dealing with a man with serious character flaws. I don't think you really know that the lying started 1 1/2 years ago....this is likely a long term pattern with him...

I'm not sure how to get in touch with the XW. I've thought about doing it, but don't know her new last name. She married again. Maybe I can do a people search for her old married name and see what I can find. The last I heard they had moved back to the states, so I may be able to find her.

I was going to confront him tonight, but he is very tired from travel yesterday and hard work in yard today. I know he will not be receptive tonight and I know from experience that timing is everything with him.

This just gets worse and worse - deeper and deeper. I'm really kind of in shock. I took some extra xanax this afternoon so I would be able to be decent to him tonight because he said he wasn't feeling all that well. So far, it's working!!!

Talked to my brother on the way home today from work and he made me feel so much better. He prayed with me before we hung up and that gave me strength.

Did a search in Intelius for XW under her married name to H. Showed me and H as relatives - probably because we've all shared the same address.

Anyway, she still has same name unless the report never picked up her married name. She lives in TX. He said she lived in IL. I'm wondering if she ever got married and if she ever lived in IL.

He did tell me when we first met that the man she met online and had A with was from Houston.

I'm thinking of calling her tomorrow. Thoughts about doing this before or after confrontation???? Do I just tell her who I am and that I'm having issues and wondered what her experiences were if she's willing to talk? Ask her for confidence?

KLD,

I'm not at all surprised at what you uncovered tonight about your WH's XW.

I'm sure you will discover more when you speak to her.

I am more concerned by the way you crush your feelings in order to spare his.

You were going to unburden yourself tonight, by telling him what you know, but b/c "he is very tired from travel YESTERDAY" and was tired from "hard work in yard today"...You decided to eat your feelings again tonight.

And then, b/c "he said he wasn't feeling all that well." YOU took some extra xanax this afternoon so YOU would be able to be decent to him tonight.

Wow!

When do your feelings matter?

When do YOU matter?

~ Marsh

Gosh. I feel like I'm making strong decisions about what I'm doing and how I'm going about it most of the time. Then when you guys show me how I push my own well being aside I feel so weak.

I actually do feel that this M has little chance of surviving at this point, but I want to leave it with class and dignity. I also want to make sure I have as much data as I can have to set myself up to not be a loser in the D.

I'm so ready to talk to him and will most definitely make my deadline of Sunday afternoon. I actually plan to do it tomorrow. He's in a crappy mood for some reason now. Has gone in the other room to watch tv in the dark alone. Normally I'd be checking on him and when I went in to see if he wanted to come watch something with me, he declined. So I just said okay, enjoy.

He also said my typing on the computer was on his nerves. I offered to put it away - said I was working on my resume and could finish it tomorrow. He said no big deal and stayed in his room. Maybe he's depressed he didn't get to frolic naked with his OW today... Hate that so bad for him!!!LOL

KLD, there is not going to be any way to tell him that he is going to like, so it is best to just get it over with and stop delaying. There will always be something if you continue to look for it. It has to be done. His reaction is his problem entirely. If he gets mad, or whatever, you can handle it. You are a grown woman. Please stop putting this off, KLD, you will drive yourself nuts trying to avoid conflict.

Are you sure you feel weak b/c I pointed out how you push your own well being aside?

Or do you feel weak b/c you ARE pushing your own well being aside?

I'm not trying to discourage you.

I'm trying to nudge you in the direction of caring for yourself....so you will feel strong, rather than weak.

~ Marsh

I think it's a combination of all of that. I think I'm strong because I'm making conscious efforts to handle this the way I want it handled. Then it hits me that I'm really procrastinating and that makes me feel very weak.

I think not actively taking better care of myself is weak. I do still worry about his well being whether he deserves that or not. That also seems weak because he is responsible for his stuff.

I practiced my speech in the car and recorded it. It was calm and rational. It may be too short and probably won't go the way I plan, but at least I have my lead in done and the rest will have to be from my heart.

I'd planned on maybe taking an overnight trip after our talk especially if things went badly, but my brother asked me to please not leave the house for more than an hour or so. He thinks it would be best for me to have him leave if someone has to go away for overnight.

Hi KLD,

I thought the common wisdom was that the BS should not leave the house. Your brother may be right. Hopefully someone else will chime in here to say yay or nay.

Also, do you think it would be good to call the XW before you talk to your H? I *really* don't want to give you another excuse to procrastinate, so don't use it like that. But you may get some info you can use. If you don't call her before you confront H, then definitely do so after.

My sister was dating someone who said he was divorced. He even had his teenage son confirm that they were divorced. Turns out they weren't. He was totally slimey. She had to get the cops involved to get him out of her apt and her life.

You need to call the XW, see what her side of the story is. But don't use that as an excuse to postpone talking to your H.

KLD, I will be praying for you this morning. You are a strong, intelligent woman and you have the ability to do this. There is no such thing as PERFECTION in these situations; there is no perfect time except the present. Choose to be strong and get this over with. We will be pulling for you and will be here to support you when you get back!

((((KLD)))),

I wanted so badly to post yesterday but was unable to be at a computer.

You are NOT weak and you don't behave weakly!!!!!! You are attempting to do EVERYTHING!! I would guess that you are the person that people turn to when they need something done, because you are able to get it done. That is an unselfish, STRONG attitude. The only time it is a problem is when NO ONE takes care of you too. Hence the problem with Giver/Taker. Right now you are forgetting to take care of yourself and acknowledging your feelings is part of that. That is NOT weakness. I would suggest that you get your Taker into high gear before you talk with your WH.

I know you know this but it is highly unlikely that your H has only been lying for a year and a half. All his life is more like it. UNLESS he has a brain tumor or chemical problem that has developed in the last few years. That is possible and I mention it because I have seen it happen.

BUT, I would not suggest giving the idea to your WH. he might jump on it and find a way to use it.

If you have ANY desire to stay with him, you can make it a condition that he has to get himself TOTALLY checked out by doctors, have him allow you to sign a waiver that will give you permission to talk to the doctors and have all info released to YOU(actually this is just PORH anyway), and go to the Doctor"s with him. You can say it's because of your concern about HIV, syphilis, etc.

Then YOU talk to the doctor.

All that said, IMHO(and I really mean that because this is contrary to what the vets have advised and I take their advice so serously), I would NOT leave your home for any great length of time. Maybe an hour or two AT THE MOST. Your H's life thrives because he is alone and secret most of the time. Leave ONLY if you feel physically threatened. He may leave anyway.

HE IS A PROFESSIONAL LIAR!!!! I mean that literally. He has found a way to get paid and taken care of by lying. Please call the XW as soon as you can. Don't hesitate.

You rock KLD. We all think so here. I am humbly realizing that if you had confronted when "I" felt you should that you would have thought he was having an A with one woman and he would have bben able to continue to lie about the utter depravity of what has been happening. I can only hope that in your situation that I would have the courage to follow my instincts as strongly as you have.


Praying VERY intensely and waiting for word,
WH2LE