There are always things that some of us would change, but after reading the letter, I believe any reservations I have are merely differences in style.

I don't know that you need to change anything.

SS

I changed it up a little bit, but it's now on it's way to her. No turning back now. I called WH and asked again about his intentions regarding the NC letter and he said he will do it tonight. I'm sure I'll have to remind him.

I just couldn't stand by as the quiet little mouse in her eyes. If this was a mistake, then so be it. I have operated from a position of weakness (by my own choices to not see the truth, etc.) and I'm not going to continue to stay in that place.

KLD,
Like I said before, You ROCK!!!

I do have one thought. I know you have already sent the letter to OW, but maybe a P.S. of your own would be in order. She needs to be informed about OW#2 and your WH's foray into the online dating scene.

I saw on another thread(TMTS maybe?? Just not sure) that the BH found that the OM had a GF and exposed to her that the OM was carrying on with his WW. It broke up the A very quickly when both GF and WW realized that they had been ....uh....had.

And are you going to inform OW#2 about OW#1? She needs to
be exposed to also.

You have not made any mistakes so far. You aren't going to start now. The mistakes made have been by all other parties involved here and they are just experiencing the consequences for their behavior.

Praying,
WH2LE

I agree that you should expose all the women to each other. No man will withstand the crap that could ensue, once they find out the man they're cheating with...is cheating on them!

Just remember what I said about the manipulation. He can be a wonderful person to be married to, but still be a compulsive liar or manipulator. No physical contact for at least a couple of weeks, no matter what! Don't allow him to move in close to you, to touch your hand or arm, to even brush against you.

I hope the silence means you were able to get away for the weekend.

Actually, I just needed time away from all this for a few days. I didn't actually get away, but did find some diversions.

WH and I went for a nice dinner Saturday night and it was good. We had fun without talking about our issues. This was a nice change of pace.

He is feeling exremely guilty and that's causing him problems. He's not sleeping.

We had some good talks, though difficult ones, Friday, Saturday, and Sunday. He has shown me his phone records and she has contacted him but he hasn't responded. He says he didn't read the messages, though I don't know if that's true or not.

He still didn't write the NC letter. I asked him about it and he said just can't concentrate on it. I told him that this is a strong statement to me about his commitment and he says he's doing the best he can. I got angry with him and the response was a bit of anger in return. He says that he feels he's walking on eggshells and is afraid that anything he does will blow up in his face. I said welcome to my world for the last 3 years. He didn't have a comeback for that one.

In all, I think he's trying but is resisting some of the things he needs to do. We have a session with Jennifer tomorrow night and I'm hoping this session will help get us headed in the right direction. I know I'm making mistakes and I know he's withholding info. Maybe Jennifer will help us break through some of that.

I'm still in a depressed kind of funk. Not sure the ADs are really helping and not sure how to know for sure. It's only been 4 weeks since I started on them so maybe it's just now at the stage where I should see some results. I've been kind of short with my boss - he's actually a little dense and doesn't really understand what I do - and I need to watch that.

KLD,

So good to hear that you are ok. Depression is the norm for now. At this moment I am not sure there is an AD made that will take away what you are feeling. A lot of what you feel is grief and it's important to work through it.

What mistakes do you think you are making?

Praying,
WH2LE

Some of the mistakes I think I'm making are not completely holding his feet to the fire about some of the things I've asked him to do. I did tell him I want to see him be proactive so I don't have to ask for the things I've asked him to do. If he's sincere he needs to show me what I need without waiting for me to ask for it. Some of that he has been doing - showing phone records and his bank records. We did discuss the money he spent on her and I think he didn't realize just how much it's been and that it would make me as mad as it did.

He hasn't given me passwords. I gave him all of mine even though some of them he already knew. I did this to lead by example. It drew no response from him. When I asked him about it he says this is very difficult for him because he doesn't want to give up every piece of privacy he has. I explained that he's created this situation and he says he understands yet the passwords aren't forthcoming.

I told him about the email I sent to her and the letter to her mother. He got very angry about the letter to her mother. He said he didn't care about the email to her, but that it wasn't right to drag her mom into it. I explained my logic that hopefully her mom would have some influence over her and help her. I told him I won't apologize for the fact that people must deal with the consequences of their actions. Nothing else has been said about it since then.

I can't tell if it's withdrawal for him or if it's his guilt or a combination, but he is very distant. He said yesterday he was so tired from not sleeping that he couldn't really function. I've actually seen him this way several times since I've known him when he's not been sleeping well.

I told him last night that I feel like crap that he's slept with OW and carried on with her for so long yet I'm still the one making all the effort to make this work. That I'm the one who's trying to show him that we can be happy again. He should be proving to me that he wants the M and that he is choosing me and our M because it's what he wants not because I'm the lesser of two evils or he's afraid to lose out in a D.

I want to see that my WH is thankful that I did what I did to save my M and to bring him back. I don't see anger from him for anything except the letter to OWM, but I see resignation. Is this normal?

It's probably too early to expect anything from him but withdrawl and depression... he's still foggy. If you keep up the planA he will eventually be so grateful for you hanging on and he will tell you that.

Hi KLD - I have been following your sitch and wanted to chime in to say "great job!" I don't know how you found the strength to quietly prepare for the confrontation with your H over such a protracted period of time but that strength is admirable.

In terms of your current status I would offer that apparently this is normal. I have been dealing with variations on the "why am I the only one trying to save our M?" since my d-day and it has been at times infuriating, saddening and frustrating. My W and I started MC (Imago therapy) and have been to two sessions. I should be encouraged that she agreed to go with me but it still seems that my W's feelings are dominated by anger and resentment at me over my decision to tell my son about her A (with his coach).

On a daily basis I am simply trying to stay as focused as possible on me and my kids and trying to find strength in knowing that we will all be OK regardless of what happens with the M. I'll continue to Plan A for as long as I can but at some point I may decide that the one-sided approach is not working.

Hang in there. You're doing great.

TIM - I've been following your thread, too, but just haven't felt like I've had anything much to offer since I don't really have any notable experience under my belt. Thank you so much for the encouragement you've given me - it helps to know that what I'm seeing out of my WH is fairly normal - if such a thing exists.

I wish you luck in your journey, as well. It sounds as if you're going your part and I hope it pays off the way you want it to.

Hi KLD, I understand how unhappy you feel about your unwillingness to hold his feet to the fire as yet. I remember when AmI and her H would have their discussions with Steve, and he really explained it to her H in a way that made sense to him even through the fog. That would be a great sign if your H respons similarly to your session.

I'll be praying for ya!

(((KLD)))

It will be interesting to see if WH does his "homework assignments" .... we shall see.

YOU are doing a darn good job at this .... yes, you are !

Yes, I'm interested to see if he does his homework, too. I told him last night there will be homework and his willingness and eagerness to do it will be an indicator to me of his seriousness. He says he understands.

I'm hoping Jennifer will be able to help WH see what he needs to do and convince him (or whatever term really fits) that he needs to do it, EO. I hope we have the same luck as AmI.

WH just called to tell me he will most likely be a little later than normal getting home tonight. Asked if we still have our call and assured me that he will be home in plenty of time to have dinner and get ready and settled down for the session. One good sign, I suppose. I'll take a few good signs at this point!

Maybe I'm paranoid - or maybe this is a no-brainer to do this, but I'd like some advice from those of you who've been here at this early stage. I don't consider us truly in recovery yet since he hasn't completely made his life an open book to me. So, I don't trust him yet.

He also told me that his boss is coming to town tomorrow and that they are going to have dinner together since they haven't been able to spend very much time together since he started his new job about 3 weeks ago. Makes perfect sense - his boss lives in Denver and will be on the jobsite every few weeks or so only.

Is it worth it to have the PI follow him to make sure this is really what he does or do I just need to trust that he's where he says he'll be? He has sworn to me that she has never come to Atlanta to meet him, that they've never met half way between in a hotel, and that he's only seen her when he went to her town. Now I realize that all of that could be bunk or that there's always a first time for everything.

He's asked me if I'm still having him followed and I said I'm not and that I only did it when he went on this last trip. I don't want to turn myself into a liar, but I also don't want to be a trusting soul that gets dumped on again. Thoughts?

The WS often falls off the wagon -
Sometimes they have no intention of staying on.

You still don't know.

As far as the PI -
Go with your best guess. That's all you can do.

Progress in recovery -

I don't know everything you required of him, but lets review some of the ones we can guess from what you have said.

NC letter
He hasn't done this

Make his life an open book
He hasn't done this.

Counseling -
That should start tonight.
We'll see.


I got angry with him and the response was a bit of anger in return. He says that he feels he's walking on eggshells and is afraid that anything he does will blow up in his face. I said welcome to my world for the last 3 years. He didn't have a comeback for that one.

I am not sure where he is coming from, since it looks like he hasn't done anything yet.

Tell us what he has done, besides talk about it.

Tell us how you view his efforts at meeting the requirements that were set for recovery.

Now, having said all this.......... it often goes this way even when there will be recovery.

You sound good, like you are still in control. Are you feeling as good as you sound? Can we help with that part?

SS

BTW,
His talking about privacy is a standard ploy. When someone realizes the full extent of what they have done, they go out of their way to make their life an open book because they understand what is needed to fix their error.

"WH, you can have privacy if you want it. I am not demanding anything, or telling YOU what to do. I am only explaining to you what I need to stay married. You have the right to choose privacy, and I have the right to choose divorce if you do. Please don't do anything you can't live with, but don't expect me to do it either. I am not going to stay with someone who cheats on me, and then maintains they need privacy. It just won't work for me. "

SS

Based on the fact that he has NOT given you passwords....

Based on the fact that he HAS locked you out of his cellphone account....

Based on the fact that he ASKED you about being followed...

I would DEFINITELY have the PI follow him.

and the next question is what are you going to do if he's with her?

KLD,

""He's asked me if I'm still having him followed""

I think you should keep those cards close to your vest for now.

Tell him "that's for me to know and you to WORRY ABOUT!!"

This is a big deterant to keep him guessing on this. He sure isn't going to sneak off any where if he thinks the PI is on his trail.

You are doing a fine job!! Keep his feet real close to the fire!!

Get those passwords!!

What does he need privacy for?? The only time a spouse needs privacy is in the bathroom or if they are writing a personal journal. All other times should be totally transparent.

4 weeks should be enough time for the antiDs to be kicking in. May want to talk to your doc.

Stay strong.

kirk