OH, reconciliation. Well, they were usually mutual. We'd end up sitting, talking...once we had a time set up for him to come over & talk, so we were sitting on the couch, talking, and suddenly we both stopped, looked at each other, and like clockwork ran to the bedroom. One time we became "friends" via talking/meeting/"dating" while he was out, and I finally wrote him a letter asking him to come home because I'd fallen in love w/him again...so one day he showed up w/his bags as the kids & I just getting home & he called to us, "I was wondering if you'd (all) take me back?" OH happy day! (Aw, that made me cry!) And one time his dad got very, very sick while we were apart & we needed to get to him. H didn't want to be on the same flight as me but his eldest sister booked it so he was stuck...while on the east coast H & I both went to work supporting his step-mom, talking to his sister, handling stuff @the hospital, and she only had the one bed for us so we were "stuck" sleeping together...and again this amazing chemistry took over. We were there a few weeks & pretty much became friends again, we were each others' support system, and at the end of the day we were crazy, hormone-induced & sometimes drunk teenagers.

Hmm, it's weird drudging all this up.

I sort of figured this was the case. That behavior gives him POWER over you and I suspect he figures it is just a matter of time before you FOLD and play true to form. I don't think he realizes yet this time is very different. When he sees that you really MEAN what you said in your letter, I think you may see a reaction. But given what you told me here, I am not surprised at his silence. It is because in the past you have folded and he believes you will again. He has decided to have a little fun before you fold and come begging. He is in for a rude awakening.

The thing that sort of scares me about this, Julie, is that I know how manipulative alcoholics are. He is very good at manipulation and you typically believe much of what he says. You did this last time. This is one of the reasons I think it is VERY IMPORTANT for you to continue to get to as many Alanon meetings as you can, and most importantly to NOT REACT to anything he does until you COME HERE AND TELL US FIRST. Not that you are gullible, you are NOT, but that most normal ppl can't detect a good manipulation. The reason AA is so helpful is because alcoholics can't con other alcoholics. We see right through it immediately.

I should edit that but you've already quoted it. I didn't necessarily ever beg him to come home (as outlined in my post about reconciliation) but I DID beg, kick, scream, sob, cry, plead for him NOT TO LEAVE. I don't think I ever begged him to come home once he'd actually left.

Does that make a difference?

It seems you're getting a better feel for who my H is, and that is comforting to me. I will continue to go to meetings, as I can get someone to watch the kids. I need the meetings like I need this board & it's a deal, I'll post stuff here first.

Does my description of our reconciliations scare you? I think it scares me! Why? Well, the other night, I can't explain why, but the other night I considered sending him an inviting/suggestive/sexy text message. I still know that's ONE tool I can rely on. I know that's a sick way of thinking and no I didn't do it nor will I. I was feeling vulnerable, I thought about it, and I got up & did laundry. I've used that aide before though when I didn't want him getting too drunk - lure him home w/SF. Worked every time! (Yuck)

See, he is used to being taken back with open arms and REWARDED for his abusive behavior. He thinks this will be the case again when he ready, I suspect. That is why I want you to be PREPARED when he eventually tries to come back. He is thinking he can come back without making any changes as he has in the past. In the past, he was able to TALK his way out of it. He won't be able to this time. I think he will TRY.

Your description of the past breakups and reconciliations sounds like the marriage of any typical, immature, insane alcoholic. Instead of acting like a married man, he acts like a silly teenage boy and DATES his own wife. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> That is for children, not grown ups.

Were you raised in a household that had craziness like this? Does this all seem normal to you? You know, this is not how normal people live.

You're getting to know him! Hmm..

I waiver between thinking he'll come back & he won't. I mean, he never mentioned divorce this time. And he has in the past, even in arguments. And the other day he told me there was no reason to get lawyers involved. So, that's weird. BUT, he got an APARTMENT! And he took $500 of OUR money for it - that really floored me. The apartment itself just hurt a lot, but then again what did I expect? And, maybe he's "teaching me a lesson" here, trying to make me desperate again (won't work). But using OUR money really did shock me!

NO, I was not raised in a household like this. My parents were NOT affectionate, still aren't. See, yes I'm realizing that H has battled addiction thru our marriage, getting worse with each passing year/drink, but he's always been VERY affectionate towards me (while sober) and we were such a playful family - just a few weeks ago we were "fighting" over the remote, it started on the couch & we ended up on the floor, laughing, twisting, tickling, kicking, the kids cheering us along the whole time. That's us. That was NEVER (that I witnessed) my parents. Also neither of my parents ever left the other.

Isn't your dad an alcoholic?

Yea

Julie - Stand firm in your resolve, and don't let him slip back in. One of my dear friends is an alcoholic and was a down and out drunk. He used to take his check on payday and cash it and go to the bar. Then he would go on a 3 day bender. He left his wife and kids with NOTHING.

He finally went to AA and has been clean and sober for 10 years now. His family is happy once again and you would never guess in a million years their history.

So you had a normal, sane, quiet, unchaotic upbringing?

Not even a little bit!

I guess where I still catch myself & struggle, is that I thought or at least I was telling myself that my kids WERE having a normal, sane, quiet, mostly unchaotic upbringing.

Do you realize now you weren't telling yourself the truth?

Yes & no. It's still hard, the comparison, which I won't go into AGAIN as it's probably prohibitive in my own healing. But things like the neighbor knowing it all along & my brother who I'm not very close with telling me the other night that he saw it for years and really seeing how the kids handle it are a big, very real, wake-up call.

Hey you know my mail box, the one he kicked off the post NOT because he was drunk but because he was mad, is still sitting on my porch, not back on the post? I'll go out & put it back on but that's another thing I'm surprised about - usually he'll go around fixing things. Wonder what made this time so different? The mailbox, the apartment, the money...!?

Realization of the TRUTH is very conducive to healing. You have been living in an insane asylum and you will begin to see this more and more as you are removed from his drinking.


Alcoholics don't stay the same or get better when they drink, they get consistently WORSE.

Hi Julie,

Alcoholism is progessive, like Mel said.

The A lives in denial but so do we. I thought I was doing such a good job hiding his drinking and drunken behavior from everyone. Once it was all revealed I was shocked at how many people said things like, "Well, it's about time" or other comments about how they all knew. I was only fooling myself that things were "normal". In fact, for awhile I forgot what "normal" felt like, looked like, was.

Alanon definately addresses that issue.

I know you are right, and I suspect that little hang up is going to take a while. Slowly it's coming together. I had a dream about my wedding rings last night. I really do like them & miss them.

It's probably safe to say I DON'T know what normal is, as I've never necessarily had it!

I forgot to share another thing here (kinda journaling, I guess): you know how you all beat me up over the 2nd job? Well as I was arguing w/you, thinking I WOULD BE the stand-up parent by earning enough money, I kept hearing this voice in the back of my head. It was an old boss, who I had a conversation with once when I was telemarketing (hourly + commission) & I was telling him about an MLM thing I wanted to get involved with, and wanted him to join with me as he always had good business sense. He said to me, "how about you take all of that energy you've put aside for the new thing, and put it into what you're doing here? Then you'll still have extra money but you won't have to switch gears!" I was irritated with him but knew he was right. I went on to win contests & prizes & time off with my exceptional performance at my day job. This was when my DD/11 was just a baby & since then, I've "preached" the same to other people. So yes I knew it was an "option" as I was thinking recently about taking on a night job. Well anyway, by Thursday I was pretty far behind my goal (I'm in sales - 100% commission!) and feeling really hopeless...but Friday I came in, kept that number in front of me, didn't get up for coffee or bathroom breaks, and I'm still short of my goal but only by about $300! This felt great at the end of the day, and it will also directly impact my pay check.

The power of ME.

Hi Julie,
Did you get your front door lock situation fixed?

Just mull over the second job thing...sounds like maybe you could put feelers out there for a job that is not commission based. Since you are in this BS situation you should think about getting a base salary at least, if you are going to stay in sales.

I have my RE license and was in sales forever, but turned to marketing with a base + bonuses. I have 2 kids to take care of and it really helps ease the financial stress.

Now I can focus on me, my kids and my future, with or without my WH.

On the drinking part, I enjoy a cocktail every now and then myself. Moderation in everything.

However, when and if you go through Plans A and B and step into the recovery stage, I would encourage you not to drink if your spouse is going to demonstrate the willingness to participate in AA. ONLY if that happens though. Until then I see no harm at all in a glass of wine, or a beer, etc. You aren't the alcoholic. Your husband is.

Go out with friends! Enjoy yoru life! Have fun with your kids! Pray for your marriage!

Things are going to turn out alright, you'll see. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

The longer you stay away from the craxy making that goes on in an alcoholic home the more you will see glimpses of a more "normal" home life. Adult children of alcoholics (ACOA) have a harder time with this because you may have never lived it. There are great meetings for ACOA too. In the alanon meetings I go to most everyone there is also an ACOA. There is an obvious reason for that.

The more you understand the damage that alcohol has played in your whole life the more you will want to stay away from anyone where alcohol is a major influence in their living. For YOUR reovery you should avoid other situations where there is any alcohol dependence.

Keep up the good work! Keep going to your meetings.

Sooooooo...you're saying IF I DO end up D, which would be a long way away, I probably shouldn't start dating again or looking for love in a bar? Might wanna steer clear of that scene for a while?

I don't understand your question. Who's talking about divorce and dating and meeting someone in a bar?

I don't know if you are joking with me or projecting way out in the future.

I just just continuing on the discussions about staying away from people who are alcohol dependent or who are enmeshed with alcohlics so you can get clearer on what life is like when it is not full of craziness caused by a drunk.