Like I said, they won't necessarily know the difference! If I had to speculate, which I don't want to, I'd say he's MUCH more likely to smoke pot in their presence (in the bedroom or bathroom while they're in the other room or something) than he is to drink. Why? Cuz they recognize beer, not the differences in smoking! And it's pretty safe to say that if he smokes a cigarette, he'll smoke a bowl afterwards. That's him. Just sayin'

Now, back to my daughter please?! Or at least combine them? Should I have the intermediary tell H that DD isn't coming? Don't want to put her in a position to feel scared, guilty, pressured, OR where she can be manipulated by H.

Julie, you can't tell your kids to call you up if he smokes a cigarette. That is unreasonable. I can see it if he is smoking pot, but not a cigarette. If they see him smoking something OTHER THAN a cigarette, it would make sense to call you, I agree.

And I see no reason why the intermediary can't tell him your DD won't be coming. That way, he won't be surprised.

Alrighty then.

Goona ask interemediary where H's apartment is

Goona tell her this Fri-Sat no later than 4 is OK

Goona have her re-iterate that any drinking by H or friends around my kids will be trouble

Goona do it now

Great, he'll have them back by 2! And now I know where the apartment is, the general vicinity, I can picture them.

Ugh, this isn't working. His stupid band is "playing a show" Sat night (words I've grown to HATE) so he's going to dump them off extra-early so as not to be saddled too long. What's the point in even having them? Just to prove a point? This isn't working.

Whats wrong, Julie?

I just realized this is crap. I guess I'd forgotten that the past few days. Then I figured he's probably got some bar ho who's going to join or something, and he can't have that around my kids, so, the kids go back, life goes on for Mr. Rockstar...

I know it is crap. This is not a good situation, Julie, and there is no way to put a gloss on it. You don't know what he is doing, though, so imagining the very WORST is not helpful. But, just know this: if this marriage can be saved and stabilized, you are closer now to that than you were BEFORE.

This will get better for you the longer you are in plan B. Just ride this out, hon. It WILL get better!

Julie,

Agreed, it is not a good situation, but hang in there. When it all feels overwhelming let your mind take a break. Try to think clearly (hard, yes but try).

When I feel overwhelmed I try to look at my options...slide backwards and lose crediblity with the A, lose ground for my family and go back to the previous cycle that will NOT end until the drinking does....OR

1. Look at my options...see a lawyer so you KNOW what your rights are to protect your kids and your financial situation.

2. Stay COMMITTED to breaking this cycle.

3. Get to a meeting!

Keep focused, you're breaking the cycle. It IS hard.

Julie

Sot is right. You need to break the cycle and TAKE CARE OF YOURSELF AND CHILDREN!!

THIS is where H is at right now. Without any of us even knowing you we have seen this all before.

AA Big Book Chapter 8 To Wives

The problem with which you struggle usually falls within one of four categories:

Type #1
Your husband may be only a heavy drinker. His drinking may be constant or it may be heavy only on certain occasions. Perhaps he spends too much money for liquor. It may be slowing him up mentally and physically, but he does not see it. Sometimes he is a source of embarrassment to you and his friends. He is positive he can handle his liquor, that it does him no harm, that drinking is necessary in his business.

He would probably be insulted if he were called an alcoholic. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

This world is full of people like him. Some will moderate or stop altogether, and some will not. Of those who keep on, a good number will become true alcoholics after a while.
Type #2
Your husband is showing lack of control, for he is unable to stay on the water wagon even when he wants to. He often gets entirely out of hand when drinking. He admits this is true, but is positive that he will do better. He has begun to try, with or without your cooperation, various means of moderating or staying dry. Maybe he is beginning to lose his friends. His business may suffer somewhat.

He is worried at times, and is becoming aware that he cannot drink like other people.

He sometimes drinks in the morning and through the day also, to hold his nervousness in check.

He is remorseful after serious drinking bouts and tells you he wants to stop. But

when he gets over the spree, he begins to think once more how he can drink moderately next time.

We think this person is in danger. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

These are the earmarks of a real alcoholic.

Perhaps he can still tend to business fairly well. He has by no means ruined everything. As we say among ourselves, "He wants to want to stop."

By what you describe your H is between a #1 and #2. From your past posts a year ago when H busted up the house I would say into @2 somewhat.

These are the hardest types of A's to deal with. It is extremely hard to get this type of A to stop. It usually takes further spriral progression downward into a Type 3 or 4 before they are ready.
Your PB may wake H up or cause a long seperation but what is Julie doing to break the cycle?????????
If Plan B works and H wants to reconcile How are you going to deal with it?
It sounds like in the past Julie caved-H-made promises he did not keep. At this point will that work for Julie again?
I hope and pray for you and your children it will not work again.
THIS ILLNESS IS PROGRESSIVE AND FATAL.

Julie
You don't need your H's permission to go Al-Anon. Find a sponser. Break the cycle. He doesn't have to go to AA for you to belong TO Al-Anon. Al-Anon is especially just for you.

Does someone out there haves a better place she can go that would help her break the cycle???

Most of the posters to you have already said this in different ways.

In order to break the cycle your in ***Julie*** needs to take steps to do it with or without H. It needs to be done regardless if you reconcile or end up on your own. You two do share a child together so chances are that you will always need some type of communication-4-ever.
Even if you don't reconcile would you want to take a chance on a relationship in the future with another A? (VERY long range)

There is no "EASY" button that I have found and I believe most of us here only want the best for Julie and her children.

Get a lawyer so you know your rights
Secure XX # $ each month from H for child support
Stay on visitation schedule so Julie can plan for herself
Work the Al-anon program
Get an Al-Anon sponser

He left you didn't he? FOR _____________________you fill in the blank.

And nicey nicey Julie will accomodate Him..WHY?????

Sorry if this seems rough.

Chris

Julie

I was kinda rough on you in the post B4.

Hers what I will tell you about me as an active alcoholic up until 1986

In a blackout

Put wife against wall of house and put fist thru wall just inches from her head

Slammed her leg in the door of the car when she was getting out so hard I thought it was broke

Picked her up around the neck-held her against wall and stabbed a big butcher knife into the wall.

When I finally entered treatment all these things came out.

NO JOKE AND STILL TO THIS DAY I have no memory of them happening.

The potential for you to enter this type of situation is real. H has shown over a year ago where this could go.
Should you go to enough Al-Anon meetings you will here this question asked-HOW DO YOU KNOW WHEN THE ACTIVE ALCOHOLIC IS LYING? ANSWER--HIS LIPS ARE MOVING.

ML/SOT/ME and others b-4 just want you to be very aware of the waters that you are treading in. It is not to be taken lightly. There is no easy 1 week fix.

Trust me I know-I was there-Trust me-Your H can relate to me.
My story may not be the same as his but on some levels we are very much alike.

One meeting is not going to tell H that he is not like "them".
THATS WHAT I WOULD TELL MY W IF I DIDN'T WANT TO QUIT DRINKING ALSO!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I AM afraid that Julie will do the same as she has done in the past and expect different results. When we do that it is termed as insanity.
Trying something different and expecting different results is sane.

Its only been thru working a program of recovery that I am not the same person I was then.

Thank God For That!!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />


If Julie works an Al-Anon program of recovery in a short time from now she will not be the same as she was.

Just something to think about.


Chris

Hey Chris,

Thanks for your post. You're right, my H is between the 2. His sense of entitlement prevents him from sneaking drinks.

Enough about all that though.

NO, I will NOT be nicey/nicey or let him back home w/o 90/90 at a minimum. NO, I WILL NOT change my mind like I did last time.

I think that's what's got me so scared. I know it's good, and I've been doing well, but for whatever reason I lost it a little bit last night. And, I suspect that'll be happening from time to time.

YES, I am going to break this cycle. I already did, I just need to stick with it, and I WILL. I told you, I promised my kids. That's all there is to it, really.

I wanted to bring fireblossoms update that she posted today over here but I can't seem to do it. Maybe one of you can help with that?

While FB specific problem is different than yours, there are MANY similarities because abuse is abuse. The point in this post is how far she has come in just two weeks completely away from the abuser. She is getting intensive therapy too but I think it makes a point. Alanon will get you there too Julie. Right now it should not be hit or miss...just go. Trust me and the others. It is like medicine, you just have to do it to get better.

Have you called any lawyers to see what your rights and options are?

I'm not sure I understand why the tone of many posts are as if I'm avoiding Al-Anon. I'm not. Granted, I haven't gone yet this week, but I've been going every week. I was hoping to go every day but I don't have someone to watch the kids every day (and the meetings I've been to/that are close by/in the time slots that work for me don't have child care!). When I can't get to a meeting, I post here or read materials. Not the same I know, but this isn't me dodging. Last night the kids & I turned off the TV, DND'd the phone, and read. DD & I read our Al-Anon/Alateen books, DS read a Science riddle book.

No I haven't called lawyers. My SIL, who went thru this w/my brother a few years back (they've since "reconciled") has advised me as to what she knows & I've got a bit more to go on.

As of today I...
*Know we'll be "OK" money-wise from MY paycheck, as the pay period ended today & I've hit my goal. It won't be a comfortable living, but our insurance, taxes, and basic bills will be covered.
*Changed my exemptions to maximize my earnings.
*Heard from a neighbor that H stopped by yesterday & tried getting in via the front door. Didn't get in, slammed the door, and left.

I haven't followed FB's post since the beginnings. I'll read up.

Just wanted to add I'm not intentionally being defensive or argumentative.

I know you are not trying to be defensive or argumentative but you are resisting some. That's your decision though.

I honestly didn't have a "tone" in my post about alanon. I just can "read" from miles away when someone NEEDS one, that's all, nothing more.

I am not trying to argue with you either, however, could you please explain your thoughts about why you haven't seen a lawyer? Honestly, there are many that would take an inital visit without a fee. There are also many resources available if you have a limited income. I would not take legal advise from ayone other than an attorney. I went through a divorce a long time ago, had no money, kids to feed and a lot of bills. There is no way that I would even be close to advising you. I am not qualified and neither is your SIL. Everyone's situation is different, people remember or interpret things incorrectly, etc. Again, it is your decision to make.

If H tried to get in the house, I would BET that he is close to his first attempt to break your plan B. Be warned and prepared for that.

It sounds like you think we are hounding you but we are just helping you. A lot of us are telling you the same thing. It might be worth taking a breath and thinking about the consistency of that advise.

Hang tough!

No, I don't think you're hounding me. From where I'm sitting, it seems like for the most part I'm doing pretty well but then you guys are throwing new stuff at me or in some cases the same stuff. That's what I came here for though.

After all of my fears or worries or concerns, honestly what has prevented me from seeing an attorney is time. I know that if I can't afford it I'll just walk out, and I know my SIL is the authority on nothing, but I had to leave 2 hrs early on Fri & 2 hrs early again on Mon & my boss is NOT pleased! I've taken a lot of time - time that I'd earned, but a lot of it - off in the 7 mos I've been there. I've got a little bit of time left but she's watching closely & although she's aware of my situation, she's also the manager of a sales organization so her #1 concern lies in Sales. My #1 concern does NOT lie in Sales, but I can't lose my job either. I can take a sick day in the next week or so but not now.

Kids are to go w/H tonight so I'll at least be able to attend a meeting!

It's new information for a new life! Honestly.

I agree you have to protect that job but be sure to find the time when you can take the day off. I thought I remebered that you were in retail? Do you work strictly 9 to 5? Just trying to help you work this out. It has to get done.

I am SO glad you will be able to go to a meeting. You will feel so much better

...and thanks for the warning about your suspicion of him trying to break Plan B. I'd like to bet you a can of soda that you're wrong, but I'd hate to come off as combative. Besides, if you're right, I'll actually appreciate it (the ATTEMPT) because it'd be nice to know he still cares. With success in no contact for this past week, it's hard to know for sure.

But keep in mind, he didn't finish getting stuff out so that's what I figure he came for. I'm actually planning to take DD's key today & tell her I just need to be sure she isn't conned into letting H in.

Julie
I read you are going to a meeting tonight.
Pick up the phamplet Alcoholism-A merry-go-round of denial. This peiece of literature is an excellent explanation of how the family relationship works in almost all forms of addiction.

If your group does not have it you could print it out from the link below.

When I recieved this I inserted the names of the "actors" (from my sit) right onto the paper and was able to see what each persons role was to support A behavior. I was then able to "disrupt" the play. When I changed then the others had to change.

This may work also for you. This is where a sponsor could really help you to identify each role in the play.

Remember-the goal of Al-Anon here is not to make H quit drinking/drugs. It is to provide Julie with an opportunity to "change the role she plays in the play".

Also attached a good post from MB about boundries. Instead of WS or Affair insert alcoholic.




http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/frie...med-denial.html

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...e=1&fpart=1


Hope you have a great day

Chris

Link to FB's post from yesterday

Her post is about half way down the page- Quite inspiring!!

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...=1&fpart=12

Chris